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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: drunkencityworker on November 11, 2010, 07:46:54 AM
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Even though there is no substitute for swampers, I have grown to like my old school bfg mt. I am not to fond of the km2 style. Has anyone that had the old school bfg mt that now uses the goodyrear kevlar mtr or bfg km2 please give a quick review in comparison to the old school bfg mt. Thanks for any responses.
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Even though there is no substitute for swampers, I have grown to like my old school bfg mt. I am not to fond of the km2 style. Has anyone that had the old school bfg mt that now uses the goodyrear kevlar mtr or bfg km2 please give a quick review in comparison to the old school bfg mt. Thanks for any responses.
I neer used the old BFG MT, but a good buddy of mine did. I now have the KM2's on my rig, so I think I can compare them. The KM2's are WAAAAY quiter on the road, seem to last a bit more, and have tougher sidewalls than the original MT's (MTR kevlars are tougher, tough). As far as traction on mud, I think they are about the same (maybe a slight edge to the new ones, but it's not a noticeable difference). Can't say about rock or sand, as I dont do that type of wheeling...
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The biggest downside for the KM's is the sidewalls. Sharp rocks, roots, etc... You'll tear them open sooner or later.
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I've deflated my KM2's in the blow sand and flew up a blow sand hill i've been trying to get up for years. I'm very happy with my Mud Terrians. I can't speak to much else (yet). Pretty dry where I'm at.
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The biggest downside for the KM's is the sidewalls. Sharp rocks, roots, etc... You'll tear them open sooner or later.
By KM's you mean the originals, right? Not the KM2's? Because I have put some decent slashing on my KM2 so far and the tire is working just fine... (remember the post when the wheel came off the Jeep and the Jeep fell on the tire?)
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Here locally pretty much the only tires used are Super Swampers or BFG. I still run the KMs and many are now running the KM2s. The performance is about the same from what I've seen. This is in mostly dry terrain with short wet sections of mud or rocks once in a while. I wouldn't rush to change out the KMs unless they have some damage.
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running a mix matched set. 2 in front are from a swap I made. 50%-60% Tread and are siped for xtra wet grip. one rear is 80% with a thin slash in sidewall and some cracking from being run offroad only at low pressure like bead locks I picked up for $60. The other rear is 99% and was given to me by a neihbor. I mounted on new bead lock to find a pin hole in side wall about 1 inch from main tread edge. It is getting patched properly as we speak. Looking to milk these for 6months or so. Researching my options and posting this thread around for real life experience with the newer style tires.
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The MT/R's in my opinion have always been over-rated and over-priced. My biggest problem with the latest design (kevlar) is that you're giving up good traction on about 1/4 or 1/3 of the tire where the tread blocks are closely spaced. Take out every other tread block in this band and you would have a decent MT tire.
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By KM's you mean the originals, right? Not the KM2's? Because I have put some decent slashing on my KM2 so far and the tire is working just fine... (remember the post when the wheel came off the Jeep and the Jeep fell on the tire?)
KO = AT
(http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/images/tire-selector/tires/all-terrain-t-a-ko.jpg)
KM = MT
(http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/images/tire-selector/tires/mud-terrain-t-a-km.jpg)
KM2 = MT Mark II
(http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/images/tire-selector/tires/mud-terrain-t-a-km2.jpg)
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The MT/R's in my opinion have always been over-rated and over-priced. My biggest problem with the latest design (kevlar) is that you're giving up good traction on about 1/4 or 1/3 of the tire where the tread blocks are closely spaced. Take out every other tread block in this band and you would have a decent MT tire.
The MT/R was developed to out perform the Interco SS in rockcrawling comps while still giving you the ability to drive it day-to-day. The MT/R's were never marketed as a mud tire per say. The MT in MT/R does not stand for Mud-Terrain but rather Maximum Traction (/Reinforced). The MT/R as well as the KM2's are designed to be rockcrawler tires and still be able to drive every day. In other words, they are a compromise. I agree that they're over-priced BUT I think the MT/R was/is one of the best all-arounder's without compromising too much. (If you need a more dedicated tires then they aren't the best option of course.) The MT/R's only real weakness was in mud, but still wasn't too bad. Now, I'm not so sure about the Kevlar's. For the most part competition off-road events are dead so they aren't marketing them for that anymore. The tighter lugs only cover 1/4 of the tread though. I don't really like what they did with the sidewalls though. A bit too flashy. The tighter tread will help in areas where an AT is superior then an MT.
(http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/goodyear/gy_wrangler_mtrkev_ci1_l.jpg)
BTW: you can still get the old BFG MT's (pre- KM's) still. They sell under the name Mud Kings.
(http://www.offroaders.com/tech/AT-MT-Tires/images/BFGoodrich-Mud-King-XT.jpg)
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Well my hand was forced. The tire guy told his helper to patch my tire. The kid didnt unbolt the bead and the tire machine pushed a hole in the sidewall. He said he had to buy me a new bfg. I said i would pay the difference for a goodyear mtr. In fact order 2. Sso i cankeep. Same tires on an Xle for now.. Iwill be a customer for life. Since he took care of me. I chose the gy mtr for the sidewall protection now that i am running beadlocks and i will be airing down even further in the future. Thanks for the replies guys
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Sounds like it turned out pretty well. My dream has been to run bias ply Super Swampers with beadlocks at 2 or 3 psi. My guess is that it would provide with open diffs about the same traction as my KMs at 12 psi with a rear locker. It would be fun to try it anyway...
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Well my hand was forced. The tire guy told his helper to patch my tire. The kid didnt unbolt the bead and the tire machine pushed a hole in the sidewall. He said he had to buy me a new bfg. I said i would pay the difference for a goodyear mtr. In fact order 2. Sso i cankeep. Same tires on an Xle for now.. Iwill be a customer for life. Since he took care of me. I chose the gy mtr for the sidewall protection now that i am running beadlocks and i will be airing down even further in the future. Thanks for the replies guys
Congrats!
Sounds like it turned out pretty well. My dream has been to run bias ply Super Swampers with beadlocks at 2 or 3 psi. My guess is that it would provide with open diffs about the same traction as my KMs at 12 psi with a rear locker. It would be fun to try it anyway...
I don't think it works quite like that. If you get one side light, you'll still be 1WD. Also with beadlocks, you could just pull the valves out and deflate the tires to 0psi. The tires are usually stiff enough to still hold up. The only problem with running that low is having the tire slip off the bead but that's moot if you're going to run beadlocks.
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What I've noticed is that TJs with open diffs, just due to the greater flex, can just about match an SUA YJ with a rear locker. It may sound like I'm exaggerating but I've seen it happen on several trips on rocks (also see the Bash videos that I think Art posted one time). With really low pressure, the tire provides extra effective flex about equivalent to the sidewall height (about 9" with a 33" tire). Just estimating, this might be enough to bring a YJ close to TJ flex. I may be wrong but I've come to believe in the awesome power of flex and low tire pressure!
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I have ran both km's and currently have KM2's working in a tire shop/garage I have never liked Goodyear..
I would go bfg's over Goodyear any-day..
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What I've noticed is that TJs with open diffs, just due to the greater flex, can just about match an SUA YJ with a rear locker. It may sound like I'm exaggerating but I've seen it happen on several trips on rocks (also see the Bash videos that I think Art posted one time). With really low pressure, the tire provides extra effective flex about equivalent to the sidewall height (about 9" with a 33" tire). Just estimating, this might be enough to bring a YJ close to TJ flex. I may be wrong but I've come to believe in the awesome power of flex and low tire pressure!
Its ok to love your tj more than a yj but I have to call bs on this one. I have put my yj in places my tj friends wouldnt go because I am a bit more stable. Also everybody takes a different line I have seen inexperienced jeeps go over stuff the exp jeeper couldnt and vice versa. I have seen some open jeeps go whip thru some stuff that a locked jeep had problems. I am locked in front with lsd(8.8)in rear and theres no way I am trading my yj for an open tj. I have seen and pulled thru countless coil sprung jeeps where the flex and the line they chose caused them to spin a tire or 2. The further an axle is stuffed in one side the higher the chance the droop side is going to loose traction exp in an open rig.
I agree that low tire pressure has no substitute in certain if not all situations giving the tire the abililty to wrap around a root/rock/rutt. This isnt due to flex however its due to increasing the surface area thats making contact.
I went with the gy mtr mostly because of the tougher side walls and the fact I will be airing down further now that I have bead locks.
No 2 rigs are exactly alike and no one rig is hands down the better rig in all situations. The only thing that matters is that you are out there enjoying your rig picking lines and having fun.
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I'll agree that it's not all about the flex. Unless you're running airshocks, mega flex generally just fatigues springs prematurely and creates an unstable rig :fish:
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My rubber sold for 450 today. Enough for 2 tires and still have rims to sell. Hopefully I will get 4new tires and only have to pay for one. Then will be saving for the spare
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Can someone measure the distance on the outer lugs on bfg km and bfg km2...the goodyears alternate between 1,1 1/4 and 1 1/2. I am thinking if gy clogs too much I can always groove since I bought these for the stronger sidewall
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Its ok to love your tj more than a yj but I have to call bs on this one. I have put my yj in places my tj friends wouldnt go because I am a bit more stable. Also everybody takes a different line I have seen inexperienced jeeps go over stuff the exp jeeper couldnt and vice versa. I have seen some open jeeps go whip thru some stuff that a locked jeep had problems. I am locked in front with lsd(8.8)in rear and theres no way I am trading my yj for an open tj. I have seen and pulled thru countless coil sprung jeeps where the flex and the line they chose caused them to spin a tire or 2. The further an axle is stuffed in one side the higher the chance the droop side is going to loose traction exp in an open rig.
I agree that low tire pressure has no substitute in certain if not all situations giving the tire the abililty to wrap around a root/rock/rutt. This isnt due to flex however its due to increasing the surface area thats making contact.
I went with the gy mtr mostly because of the tougher side walls and the fact I will be airing down further now that I have bead locks.
No 2 rigs are exactly alike and no one rig is hands down the better rig in all situations. The only thing that matters is that you are out there enjoying your rig picking lines and having fun.
Congrats on the tire sale.
So it sounded like I own a TJ! I'm a fellow '95 YJ owner with a rear locker and also would not trade it in for an open diff TJ. I also used to scoff at mega flex, but several open diff TJs (one was even being driven by a novice) and even XJs have impressed me and have convinced me that more flex really does help. For example, nobody would willingly build a rock buggy with SUA YJ flex, it just wouldn't make sense; the important thing is to have balanced flex front vs. rear. As for tires providing effective flex, just try an RTI ramp with high and low pressure in the tires. I also agree with the extra bit of stability of the YJs, they tilt noticeably less on off camber slopes.
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I havnt ever put my rig on rti ramp. Is there a difference wether aired down?
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There is some difference. If you look at my avatar pic, just imagine the left front tire (up on the berm) compressed so that the rim is a few inches lower to the ground (also the right rear tire). These same inches are how much taller the berm could be without the left rear tire coming off the ground.
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just because a tire is on the ground doesn't mean you will have traction and can go. when i was at the palo duro jeep jamboree 3 years ago we where behind an xj that had amazing amount of flex jet it seemed to loose traction and get stuck on most obsticals. flex helps, but i would have rather had my yj iwth the rear lcoekr than that xj that was open with tons of flex. but like has already been stated the driver can make a big difference.
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The driver is a huge variable. That's why I would love to be able to do all the testing myself...so I need to buy some beadlocks, some bias ply Super Swampers and a lifted TJ on 33s! Sure would be fun.
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Anyone have those measurements of distance between lugs on km2 and km
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bfg km alternates between 1 1/4 and 1 1/2
bfg km2 is around an inch
gy mtr/k alternates between inch, inch 1/4 and inch and 1/2
this is the distance between lugs where mud would clog.
so the goodyears should be comparable compared.
I will let ya know after some real world testing.
best thread I could find on this.. http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f96/bfg-mud-terrain-km2-goodyear-mt-r-1115396/index4.html
GY is taller and lighter
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Seems the mtr/k is taller than the bfg as well.
al mounted up now if I can remember how to post pics on here
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae233/drunkencityworker/IMAG0023.jpg)
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(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae233/drunkencityworker/IMAG0024.jpg)
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae233/drunkencityworker/IMAG0025.jpg)
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae233/drunkencityworker/IMAG0026.jpg)
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae233/drunkencityworker/IMAG0029.jpg)
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Looks good!