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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: drunkencityworker on December 03, 2010, 03:42:31 AM

Title: Outside the box front end
Post by: drunkencityworker on December 03, 2010, 03:42:31 AM
Ok I am opening this up for discussion.
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I am looking for outside the box ideas on upgrading my front axle.
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Using this thread to log in ideas,pros,cons and cost of upgrading my front axle
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Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: drunkencityworker on December 03, 2010, 03:44:05 AM
Scenario 1.

My current dana 30 has chromo in and out w 760 ujoint on drivers side and a lockrite. 1ton steering and tie rod flip.
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Continue to build the 30.
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Chromo other side $350
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Truss the crap out of it $50
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Lock out hub conversion to try and keep weak link on the outside $850

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Pros
keep my bolt pattern
keep my steering
Hub conversion will eliminate the unibearing to a rebuildable/servicable type bearing , keep week link(hub) on the outside, as well as ability to flip hubs and full float home.
Keeps dana 30 clearance.
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Cons
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Polishing a turd
even trussed axle tubes relativley weak
might be hard on pinion bearing then stuck investing even more into the 30
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Cost $1250
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: DodgeMudder on December 03, 2010, 09:35:31 AM
What size do you run/plan to run?
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: neale_rs on December 03, 2010, 09:43:02 AM
Everything except the hub conversion.  It just costs too much.
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: jagular7 on December 03, 2010, 09:48:53 AM
If you had money, time, and a shop, I would look into a custom assembly of readily available components. Take a JK D44 front housing, shave around ring gear, attach thicker wall tubing, add Spider 60 knuckles/inner C's, RCV CV axles, 3-link the front axle, high steer, hydraulic assist, riding on 37-42s on 17's.  

There is some discussion on Pirate right now for something like this but using the shaved JK D44 with the tubes, knuckles, brakes, steering of TJ D30 to keep the Jeep strong, cheap and legal for some Euro country.
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: FourbangerYJ on December 03, 2010, 10:16:40 AM
With your new motor there is no way I would spend any more  money on your D30. What ever upgrades you do you can't make the ring gear any bigger.
D44 would be a minimum. IMO
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: neale_rs on December 03, 2010, 11:26:50 AM
X2...didn't notice the engine involved!
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: Bounty Hunter on December 03, 2010, 08:56:55 PM
It's a YJ so your front axle options are a much easier install than a TJ or XJ.

I'd recommend something similar to the two d44's I'm building.  Starting with a high-pinion d44 housing from a '78-'79 3/4t Ford, then cut the inner C's and narrow to Waggy width.  Assemble with Waggy axleshafts will keep the cost of custom shafts out of the equation and keep the width manageable.  Then assemble the outers with either Chevy knuckles (6x5.5") or Ford (5x5") depending on what wheel pattern you choose.  I chose the 6lug to match the Isuzu rear d44.
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: Jeffy on December 03, 2010, 10:28:40 PM
It's a YJ so your front axle options are a much easier install than a TJ or XJ.

I'd recommend something similar to the two d44's I'm building.  Starting with a high-pinion d44 housing from a '78-'79 3/4t Ford, then cut the inner C's and narrow to Waggy width.  Assemble with Waggy axleshafts will keep the cost of custom shafts out of the equation and keep the width manageable.  Then assemble the outers with either Chevy knuckles (6x5.5") or Ford (5x5") depending on what wheel pattern you choose.  I chose the 6lug to match the Isuzu rear d44.
That's what I'd do.  A lot cheaper then trying to screw around with JK stuff and a decent upgrade over a polished stock 30.  Except to be different, I'd go with a Toy 8" with a TRD locker.
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: sharpxmen on December 03, 2010, 11:26:01 PM
It's a YJ so your front axle options are a much easier install than a TJ or XJ.

I'd recommend something similar to the two d44's I'm building.  Starting with a high-pinion d44 housing from a '78-'79 3/4t Ford, then cut the inner C's and narrow to Waggy width.  Assemble with Waggy axleshafts will keep the cost of custom shafts out of the equation and keep the width manageable.  Then assemble the outers with either Chevy knuckles (6x5.5") or Ford (5x5") depending on what wheel pattern you choose.  I chose the 6lug to match the Isuzu rear d44.

how 'bout a writeup  :nod:
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: Jeffy on December 03, 2010, 11:41:40 PM
how 'bout a writeup  :nod:
http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/axle/yjrcdana44/
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: drunkencityworker on December 04, 2010, 03:49:30 AM
If you had money, time, and a shop, I would look into a custom assembly of readily available components. Take a JK D44 front housing, shave around ring gear, attach thicker wall tubing, add Spider 60 knuckles/inner C's, RCV CV axles, 3-link the front axle, high steer, hydraulic assist, riding on 37-42s on 17's.  

There is some discussion on Pirate right now for something like this but using the shaved JK D44 with the tubes, knuckles, brakes, steering of TJ D30 to keep the Jeep strong, cheap and legal for some Euro country.

I am subscribed to that thread...lol
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: drunkencityworker on December 04, 2010, 03:52:50 AM
That's what I'd do.  A lot cheaper then trying to screw around with JK stuff and a decent upgrade over a polished stock 30.  Except to be different, I'd go with a Toy 8" with a TRD locker.

Jeff....where can I get a good easy read on toy axles...do they make one that would fit up front and be an upgrade
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: drunkencityworker on December 04, 2010, 04:06:57 AM
Scenario 2

I FB Currie and got a quote on a custom axle.

For $3100 they would make me a "309" LOL

Pros

It would be driver drop 9 inch housing with dana 30 c's on it
It would have high pinion 3rd member with 3.73(to match) gears and an ARB
I would be able to keep my current 1ton steering set up
I would be able to keep the current bolt pattern of my marsh beadlocks
It would come with chromo 31 spline inner axles that use 760 size ujoints
9inch has better clearance than a 60 not sure compared to a 44
Would save some in not reconfiguring the rear bolt pattern ,new beads and steering

Cons

The uni bearing would become the week point
Add the hub conversion to keep the week link on outside of axle and easy fix and still be able to float home if no fix.
Price adding hub conversion would push it to $3900
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: aw12345 on December 04, 2010, 05:42:40 AM
Dana 60 or an Dana 44 JK axle that is built up anything else for a V8 and a heavy foot will granate. Stock old dana 44 front axles have skimpy shafts and spicer 760 U joints then add 37" tires and a V8 and you do more wrenching than wheelin
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: drunkencityworker on December 04, 2010, 09:08:40 AM
I had seen that the JK had a larger pinion. But I havnt seen that it had larger shafts. I know its beefier than the tj 44. But havnt heard its tougher than a ford HP 44. Do you have a souce or link for that
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: blacknblue on December 04, 2010, 05:33:47 PM
I just saw some beefy axle trusses at T&T Customs.....http://tntcustoms.com/axletrusses.aspx



Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: aw12345 on December 04, 2010, 08:03:51 PM
For an HP Dana 44 you can get the fancy CV axle shafts but they do not come cheap.
The stock stuff is about as skimpy as a dana 30, 27 spline axle shaft

See here for comparison

(http://hotimg23.fotki.com/a/76_172/88_38/dana-44-front-axle-002243.jpg) (http://hotimg23.fotki.com/p/a/76_172/88_38/dana-44-front-axle-002243.jpg)

The JK Dana 44's seem to live with 37 and 39" tires if you do not go completely nuts

A friend of mine went through about 4 or 5 warn stub shafts on a Hi Pinion Dana 44 is a period of about 4-5 months on 37" Krawlers with a Chevy 350 in his TJ
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: drunkencityworker on December 06, 2010, 04:59:17 AM
whats the width of a jk front 44
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: neale_rs on December 06, 2010, 09:20:16 AM
The JK D44 has larger u-joints too.  What I've read is that they do have to be gusseted and sleeved and have the ball joints upgraded before any really heavy use.
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: Jeffy on December 06, 2010, 12:47:50 PM
whats the width of a jk front 44
66 and change IIRC.  Keep in mind it's 5 on 5" if you get a Rubicon axle.  The J8 Axles are 5 on 5.5".

*** Looked up the exact, it's 65.375".
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: drunkencityworker on December 06, 2010, 01:41:40 PM
But they do sell them to use dana 30 outers
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: Jeffy on December 06, 2010, 02:40:20 PM
But they do sell them to use dana 30 outers
JK D30 outers.  Not sure if they're the same as TJ/XJ/YJ
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: DodgeMudder on December 06, 2010, 04:24:17 PM
Here's a really out side the box front end build up for you:  Use a '79 Ford HP 44 center cut to waggy width and using Waggy inner shafts (chromo replacements for better strength) Use '74-'80 Dodge outer flat top knuckles they are a flat top knukle with a rebuildable unit bearing, and 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern.  Now if you want to have manual hubs instead of the unit bearings MileMarker makes them and they are cheaper than the Jeep hub conversions.

This is an idea I've been thinking about building for a while.
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: Jeffy on December 06, 2010, 06:54:52 PM
But they do sell them to use dana 30 outers
Did a little poking around.  You will run into issues with the JK U-joints.  The JK uses 1350 u-joints.  I've also heard that the ball-joints are larger as well.
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: aw12345 on December 06, 2010, 07:04:02 PM
Or go Dana 44 center housing with dana 60 outer ends.
No matter how you look at it, a good reliable front end that is strong will cost some money.
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: drunkencityworker on December 08, 2010, 05:19:15 AM
can my beads be drilled to fit 5x5.5
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: aw12345 on December 08, 2010, 06:42:25 AM
Use spacers makes it a bit wide in front or buy take of JK rims, plenty of those to go around
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: Jeffy on December 08, 2010, 01:59:55 PM
can my beads be drilled to fit 5x5.5
You don't want to be drilling wheels.  Getting them centered is hard enough.  Sell them and get new ones if you have to.  You could also use spacers that have different patterns but that's always not optimal.

BTW: 5.5"?  If you're talking about the JK then it's 5".  J8 stuff is 5.5" which is the same for CJ's as well many others.  5" is just Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep, I think.
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: sharpxmen on December 08, 2010, 04:51:28 PM
You don't want to be drilling wheels.  Getting them centered is hard enough.  Sell them and get new ones if you have to.  You could also use spacers that have different patterns but that's always not optimal.

BTW: 5.5"?  If you're talking about the JK then it's 5".  J8 stuff is 5.5" which is the same for CJ's as well many others.  5" is just Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep, I think.

he might be able to but depends if it's centered on the hub rather than the lugs and if he has enough meat (or seating if you wish) behind the new locations (I can't remember if he's got humvee recentered wheels or not, if he does probably he can call the guy that sells them he would know for sure). I had redrilled rims but they were cast alloys and were centering on the hub, they worked well with no issues but they were fairly thick and there were only 4 holes rather than 5 so the holes were further apart (you would end up with 10 holes in this case).
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: jagular7 on December 10, 2010, 07:34:07 AM
Here's a really out side the box front end build up for you:  Use a '79 Ford HP 44 center cut to waggy width and using Waggy inner shafts (chromo replacements for better strength) Use '74-'80 Dodge outer flat top knuckles they are a flat top knukle with a rebuildable unit bearing, and 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern.  Now if you want to have manual hubs instead of the unit bearings MileMarker makes them and they are cheaper than the Jeep hub conversions.

Since the early version of the unit bearing is rebuildable in the full-time 4wd for Dodge in the mid-to-late 70s, would you happen to know if its the same for the military version? Dodge supplied 3/4ton trucks to the military. They were full-time as well. 8on6.5 and possibly D44s. I don't know for sure which diff housing they had. But having a flat top knuckle and rebuildable unit bearing in the 8on6.5 may be another option.
Title: Re: Outside the box front end
Post by: DodgeMudder on December 10, 2010, 10:15:21 AM
Since the early version of the unit bearing is rebuildable in the full-time 4wd for Dodge in the mid-to-late 70s, would you happen to know if its the same for the military version? Dodge supplied 3/4ton trucks to the military. They were full-time as well. 8on6.5 and possibly D44s. I don't know for sure which diff housing they had. But having a flat top knuckle and rebuildable unit bearing in the 8on6.5 may be another option.

I don't know if the military vehicle is the same or not, but I know there was d44 in the 3/4ton Dodge trucks of that vintage that were 8 on 6.5 with the rebuildable unit bearings.