4bangerjp.com
General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: 4BangerTJ on January 13, 2011, 02:25:29 PM
-
Ok I'm new to this so I figured I would just come right out and ask for advice. Just bought my first jeep. Its a 99 wrangler. I want to lift it but want to know what height and brand you guys recommend. Also what size wheels and tires. I did away with my lifted tahoe in search of something that can b driven on more than just mild paths and mud but don't ever plan on going anything more than mild nothing crazy and it will be my daily. I do want that big beefy look that I have always envyed of jeeps. So shoot. and tell me what cha think. Thanks
-
Well, if I had to start over again, I'd probably go with a 3" Rubicon Express lift with 33x10.5R15's. It should be enough to get you through 90% of the trails without much trouble while still giving you the ability to drive it daily and still have decent highway manors.
-
Can you tell me why exactly you like the rubicon lift over others and why only 33s and nothing larger? Just curious cause I thought larger tires were better off road and assumed that 4-6 inches was the ideal lift height. Not trying to say you don't know your stuff just wanna know why cause likei said I'm used to my lifted tahoe where clearance is the main issue so the more lift and bigger tires the better. Also what do you think of body lifts?
-
Jeffy's right on target. The open diff Dana 35 tends to have issues with tires over 33'' and once you hit about 4" of lift on a TJ, you need to consider a long arm set-up, plus rear driveshaft vibration issues are more common. The 3" lift with 33s gives you a lot of go for not much dough, and maintains good road manners. You might also consider installing a winch after you get the lift and tires in place - good bang for the buck. The 33x10.5s give you ground clearance without destroying your gas mileage. If you want strong performance, you'll want to regear to 4.88 at some point down the road, but this can wait.
-
Can you tell me why exactly you like the rubicon lift over others and why only 33s and nothing larger? Just curious cause I thought larger tires were better off road and assumed that 4-6 inches was the ideal lift height. Not trying to say you don't know your stuff just wanna know why cause likei said I'm used to my lifted tahoe where clearance is the main issue so the more lift and bigger tires the better. Also what do you think of body lifts?
You could go for more lift and larger tires but you better have deep pockets. You are compromising onroad for offroad. Like what VA said, once you get over 33" you start having to replace a lot more parts. Not to mention regearing which costs a lot.
Your Jeep is a lot lighter then your friend's Tahoe. Live-axles are preferred over IFS. Tires, wheel and lift will probably set you back around $3000. Regearing will cost another $1500-2200 if you have a shop do it. If you're lucky you can get a shop to do it for about $200 in labor. But you'll still be spending around $400 in parts. More lift will also require you to get a SYE and rear driveshaft $500-700 (you install). The rear axle isn't the greatest and if you're going to go with something over 33" then you will need to replace it. 35's and up require lower gears then the stock axles can handle so you're looking at two new axles if you want to regear it properly. You can see this snowballs very fast.
-
RE has well engineered kits that flex (articulate) well and they also have good customer support. The RE kits bolt-in, so you don't have to weld much.
Body lifts will give you clearance, but don't help with suspension articulation. Also, you run into lalignment issues - steering, radiator/fan, shifters, etc.
Let me tell you about my 98 TJ - I bought it cheap because the previous owner destroyed the rear axle with 35" tires. The Dana 35 (rear) is a light duty axle. The 4" short arm drove poorly due to suspension angles. I am in the process of installing a Clayton long arm suspension (welding required), Ford 8.8 rear axle, and Atlas 5:1 transfer to correct all the issues from the previous destruction and give me lower gearing. Hey, the 1" body lift is good for one thing - I didn't have to hammer the floorboard to get the Atlas in there!
-
I get what you guys are saying as far as the strength of the axle is concerned. As for affording stuff I do get stuff a lot cheaper than average ie lifts tires wheels parts etc as I manage a shop and have a ton of commercial accounts and also free labor. I don't really think I wanna go the route of changing axles and stuff out cause that's just a lot of work I don't wanna do at least not right now. So a 3inch lift and 33s huh? I will be honest my only concern is it won't be enough lift to do what I wanna do cause I wanna try more challenging stuff than I did in my tahoe and I also want it to be tall enough that I am ok with it appearance wise. Can you go through some pretty challening mud and rock crawling with that? And what does it look like all done? thanks
-
I totaly agree with all these responces.
You can have alot of fun with a mild lift, some type of locker, and 33" tires.
More than enough to do 90% of the trails out here in California.
The little 4banger will never make a great mud bogger, but they make
great rock crawlers and trail machines.
And if geared right a good commuter. (4.88's)
-
When I was in Moab last spring, I did Flat Iron Mesa trail backwards. Forward, it is a 5 and backwards it is an 8. This was on 33" BFG MTs and a little four-banger. The two guides were talking while we were on the Kane Creek Trail and agreed that a Jeep with 33s, a good spotter, and a good attitude could run any trail in the Moab area. Between them, they had over 50 years experience guiding in Moab. 33s ought to be good enough.
-
When I was in Moab last spring, I did Flat Iron Mesa trail backwards. Forward, it is a 5 and backwards it is an 8. This was on 33" BFG MTs and a little four-banger. The two guides were talking while we were on the Kane Creek Trail and agreed that a Jeep with 33s, a good spotter, and a good attitude could run any trail in the Moab area. Between them, they had over 50 years experience guiding in Moab. 33s ought to be good enough.
I think he's really underestimating the capabilities of the Jeep. Some time behind the wheel time would solve that though. There is some support for Jeeps 'Trail Rated' badge. Jeep runs the Rubicon Trail, here in CA, unofficially. Before it was official but now it's not. They have been doing this since the 90's. Stock YJ's and then slightly modified YJ's with 31's were used and continued to be used by Jeep Jamboree for official use as well as running Dealers across the trail. This continued with the TJ, Liberty, Grand Cherokee, Commander, etc...
33's are pretty common on Jeeps since the early days. Keep in mind that the new JK's come with 32's on the Rubicon's. 35's are nice but aren't really required. Yes, they make the trail easier BUT they also require a lot more work to get setup right.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rubicon+trail+jeep&aq=f
As long as you're not doing some trails like the CA's Hammers (check out Art's TJ build (http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,7754.0.html)) AZ's Ajax, etc... you'll be fine. For most trails 33's are fine.
-
i agree with Jeffy for a 3" lift and 33s. That formula is considered to be best for all-around use by many 4x4 experts. If you are tight on cash you may want to look at Rough Country lifts. they make a 3.25" and 3.75" kit. I have the 2.5" and am upgrading to 3.25". Considering the price, i think it's one of the best deals. there are extensive reviews online (Jeepforum and others). Of course if $$ is not a problem, some consider the best to be an Old Man Emu set up. to do it right, you would have to contact them and have a tech set up a good lift for ya.
By the way, for light wheeling, a little mud, "nothing crazy" as you say, a good set of 31" MTs will do just fine. I ran a set for almost 3yrs before upgrading to 33s.
-
You guys are becoming more and more convincing. And you are right that I am probably underestimating a jeeps capabilities as I have never owned one but always seens pics of them crawling and such and wanted to do it. Maybe I will go do some wheeling a bit before I lift it jus to see what the stock capabilities are so that I have a rough idea. Then maybe look into hitting up a 3 in lift and some 33inch MTs. I guess my only concern left is what it will look like. Is there a section on here for like pics of members rides where I can see what it may look like? thanks a lot for the advice guys.
-
You guys are becoming more and more convincing. And you are right that I am probably underestimating a jeeps capabilities as I have never owned one but always seens pics of them crawling and such and wanted to do it. Maybe I will go do some wheeling a bit before I lift it jus to see what the stock capabilities are so that I have a rough idea. Then maybe look into hitting up a 3 in lift and some 33inch MTs. I guess my only concern left is what it will look like. Is there a section on here for like pics of members rides where I can see what it may look like? thanks a lot for the advice guys.
This is a great starting point, add in a good set of rocker gaurds and some better skid plates, and think about some corner gaurds, add some good tires, either 30 or 31's and wheel it, get a good feel for it, and see from there if you want to go higher. I know a bunch of people who have gone hog wild and built huge Jeeps but because they don't know how to wheel it they don't go down a trail as well as a smaller rig. I would say a 1" body lift w/ mm lift and flat skid, 3" lift, 33's, and a locker or two are going to give you one of the best combos for an all around Jeep you can get.
As far as deep mud, a wider tire on the light little Jeeps will let them run with the big boys, because the Jeep is light it doesn't sink in like a fullsize so it doesn't need the tire size the fullsizes do.
-
Mine is a YJ, so it's a bit different, but I run the D35 and D30 (stock axles but with alloy shafts and lockers) with 33's, and I have gotten through some tough terrain with this combo... Here are some examples:
http://www.youtube.com/v/Y99Pgq0MgX0?fs=1&hl=en_US
http://www.youtube.com/v/vIom32ggZM4?fs=1&hl=en_US
http://www.youtube.com/v/PNtmAvqf9Uc?fs=1&hl=en_US
Oh, and how's this for thick mud? There's a 33" BFG KM2 under all that...
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f138/jfrabat/Jeep/Tornillal/DSC01427.jpg)
Some more mud:
http://www.youtube.com/v/WCAHc5TEOYA?hl=en&fs=1
An interesting ledge:
http://www.youtube.com/v/lsNmLKtDazQ&hl=en&fs=1
And some river fording:
http://www.youtube.com/v/1gtKTpg1uBs&hl=en_US&fs=1&
We dont get many rocks here in Costa Rica, but with 33's (and sometimes with the help of tire chains and my winch), I get through most of the obstacles the guys with 38's go through... in fact, i have yet to be left behind because I cannot get through (I have opted out of some obstacles because i dont want to tear my Jeep apart with body damage, but I am sure it would have gone through!).
Dont underestimate the Jeep on 33's!
Felipe
-
Also, a member of this forum did the Rubicon Trail in a YJ on 31s and a very small lift. Properly driven, Jeeps with relatively mild modifications can do amazing things.
-
Also, a member of this forum did the Rubicon Trail in a YJ on 31s and a very small lift. Properly driven, Jeeps with relatively mild modifications can do amazing things.
Chris did. Last time I was there we had a TJ on 31's (cooper AT's?) as well as a YJ on 31's (BFG MT). The rest were on 33's (BFG MT's). Actually one XJ was on 32 Super Swampers.
-
Well let me ask you guys this. If I wanted to go 35s and swap axles do I need to swap the whole housings or just the axle shafts in the housings? Also are there is cars that you can take a dana 44 off that wll directl bolt up to my TJ or would I have to do fab work on any that I use?
-
Well let me ask you guys this. If I wanted to go 35s and swap axles do I need to swap the whole housings or just the axle shafts in the housings? Also are there is cars that you can take a dana 44 off that wll directl bolt up to my TJ or would I have to do fab work on any that I use?
Bare minimum would be to swap the rear axle (the whole axle, housing, etc..). It won't be optimal with gearing but the front axle will limit you to 4.88:1. You really want to be at 5.38:1, which you could get if you swap the front axle (everything). The only thing that will be a direct bolt on would be from a Rubicon. Everything else requires welding.
-
Bare minimum would be to swap the rear axle (the whole axle, housing, etc..). It won't be optimal with gearing but the front axle will limit you to 4.88:1. You really want to be at 5.38:1, which you could get if you swap the front axle (everything). The only thing that will be a direct bolt on would be from a Rubicon. Everything else requires welding.
But anyone with some welding knowledge can do this... It's not easy, but it's not rocket science.
-
I think for now ill just stick to the 33s. Now I just need to decide which lift or combo lift I wanna go with. What are the pros and cons of doing a full suspension lift vs a small suspension and body lift combo vs a spacer and body lift combo?
-
I think for now ill just stick to the 33s. Now I just need to decide which lift or combo lift I wanna go with. What are the pros and cons of doing a full suspension lift vs a small suspension and body lift combo vs a spacer and body lift combo?
The kits with new arms, springs,shocks are gonna ride,flex, work better than the spacer - body lift. You need 3.5-4 inches to clear the 33's. The bigger the springs get you need the longer arms to correct the geometry. Buying the whole package will save some headache later down the road. Do it right the first time.
-
This is my issue with that. I have asked several people about lifts and everyone I ask is telling me that if I lift any more than 3" I will have to worry about wobbles and sye and drivshafts etc. I don't wanna get into all that for just some 33s right now. I would rather have to tackle that all later when I have to in order to clear 35s or more. That's why I was asking cause I was considering a 3" and a 1" bod lift and just don't know enough to know if they still ride well.
-
This is my issue with that. I have asked several people about lifts and everyone I ask is telling me that if I lift any more than 3" I will have to worry about wobbles and sye and drivshafts etc.
Most or all 4" kits will come with a transfer case lowering kit to keep you from needing a SYE or any driveshaft modifications. The Rough Country 4" kit is a decent kit on a budget. Get a good alignment after the lift and the chances of any wobbles are minimal.
There are a few jeepers out there who slam a transfer case drop, saying it goes against the purpose of lifting a jeep by lowering the belly skid and decreasing the breakover angle. I don't think lowering the belly skid 1" is that bad after gaining 4" from the lift and around 3" from the increase in tire height.
-
There are a few jeepers out there who slam a transfer case drop, saying it goes against the purpose of lifting a jeep by lowering the belly skid and decreasing the breakover angle. I don't think lowering the belly skid 1" is that bad after gaining 4" from the lift and around 3" from the increase in tire height.
That's a good point; the only time my belly skid has hit has been in DEEEEEEEP mud... and 1" of difference would not have made any difference at all.
-
That's a good point; the only time my belly skid has hit has been in DEEEEEEEP mud... and 1" of difference would not have made any difference at all.
I'm the other side of this coin, I hate the t-case drops, I bent my stock skid up from hits so bad I had to unbolt it and beat it back flat a couple time just to drive home. I have since gone to a custom trans mount cross member set-up that is only 1" below the frame and it has made contact on the rocks and rough trails, I hit it hard enough last time out to stop my forward momentum and had to back up and make a second run at an angle to clear the bank, I plan remake it to get a skid thats completely flat under my YJ in the spring. I don't like body lifts but see the bennefit of running one with a MM lift to keep from dropping the skid plate.
-
Ok thanks guys for the info. I'm gonna do some looking into some better kits than the rough country. I hd one of there kits on my truck and it was pretty good quality but I have hard lot of negatives about it on jeeps. I am leaning toward an re or ome or mabe teraflex 3 o 3.5" and a 1" body lift. Just gotta find the right deal and jump on it I guess. Thanks for the info guys.
-
Ok thanks guys for the info. I'm gonna do some looking into some better kits than the rough country. I hd one of there kits on my truck and it was pretty good quality but I have hard lot of negatives about it on jeeps. I am leaning toward an re or ome or mabe teraflex 3 o 3.5" and a 1" body lift. Just gotta find the right deal and jump on it I guess. Thanks for the info guys.
RC is great if you have a budget to keep. If $$ wasnt limited i would have dropped a decent amount of cash on an Old Man Emu set-up/kit. There are real in-depth reviews of the RC kits available on jeepforum and other forums. The ride is a bit stiff but i def have been in stiffer jeeps running other kits. You get a full kit (springs and shocks and other equipment) for a very good price. Full kit is better than just running body spacers in my opinion. Of course, if you have the cash to spend, you can go with rubicon express, or the best (in my opinion) OME.
-
KISS
99 TJ.
Run a combination of simple low lifts.
Simple 2" lift with either springs or spacers. 1.25" body lift. Combo provides enough room for 35's on my 97 TJ. I'm also using Rubi LJ coils in addition to the spacers. Some say its another 1" lift, but been wheeling for 6 yrs this way. Most spacer lifts include shocks and the rear track bar riser bracket. My lift consists of the ACOS up front to match the rear lift. Rear is the spacer lift. Tera control arms and RE track bars. I use shocks for 6" lift. To maintain my shocks, I have to run longer bump stops and risers to keep the shocks from bottoming out. I use YJ front brake lines along with JKS quick disconnects for the front sway bar. I do have lots of axle walk but I know that. I still have the stock trans skid plate with the 1" motor mount lift, use the stock rear ds, and have the stock rear brake line.
If you want to gain articulation, you'll need more mods, simple but additional. Motor mounts, adjustable/articulating control arms and track bars, front sway bar disconnect/swap, longer front brake lines, and longer bump stops/bump stop risers.
Maintain minimal driveline vibes with a 1" motor mount lift. Consider this, when you lower the trans case skid, you are lowering the back end mount of the driveline, this in turn angles the driveline to help minimize the driveline vibes. Why not lift the front mount 1" higher to get similar tilt and results?
Adding articulating control arms and track bars are necessary as the stamped steel stock components can't handle the forces when articulating with the larger tires and most of the time, the stock rubber bushings won't last. If you can't afford all at once, you can take steps for the control arms and track bars. Add an adjustable track bar in the front, lower front control arm to adjust the front geometry, the upper rear control arm to adjust the pinion angle. In time, replace the lower rear and upper front control arms, and lastly, the rear track bar. You need to keep an eye on the stock components for stress fractures, otherwise, they break. The riser bracket for the rear track bar is necessary to realign the axle under the frame. The front track bar (stock) can be relocated with a bracket, or a hole can be drilled in the axle bracket. Installing an adjustable/articulating track bars is best.
When you start to articulate, depending on the shock length, you will need to replace the stock front brake lines. On the TJ, they will come up short, especially with the front sway bar disconnected. YJ brake lines work well, but that depends on the shock length at full droop. IFS GM front brake lines are even longer and bolt in. The rear brake line you won't need to touch as its the length of the upper rear control arm. Lengthen that arm, you need to address the rear brake line.
Based on the shocks you choose, you need to address the full compression. Keeping the tires off the body as well as keeping the shock from full compression. Longer bump stops are available as well as risers which are secured to the axle housing. THe stock rubber bump stop usually is deteriorated or its gone. Rubber and polyurethane bump stops are available. Aluminum discs are adjustable risers or get the solid riser.
-
wow that is a lot of really good info. gotta get a game plan together now.
-
so you have a 97 SE on 35s? Are you running a dana 44 in the rear?
-
I know a guy who has a Pro Comp 2 inch lift for a TJ. It's just springs (4) and shocks (4) for $200. It your interested I can PM you his number.
With a small body lift or spacers you should clear 33's.