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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: jwrape on August 31, 2006, 03:27:32 PM
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Ok, I just read in another thread here that you can put in the yellow top 19lbs injectors from a 4.6L ford motor and get a little more out of your 2.5L. What are the pros and cons, lets hear it.
Jeffy,
I expect you to comment on this. :D
Lets hear it
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I found this place that sells 19lbs injectors that list them for Mustangs and 87-95 Jeeps.
http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_SetsJEEP.asp
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Injectors by themselves will not get you much of anything... you need to know what flow rates the fule pump can support and many other things.
In my opinion all you will do is end up getting more power at a higher RPM if you start modding the engine. Since 4 bangers lack displacement the only thing you can do is spin them up to get more power. Think of it as an air pump... to get more power out you have to push more air and fuel through it = higher RPM.
edit - this is to tr to simplify things - don't want to write a book here. There are other considerations is all I am saying.
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absolutely no point in upgrading the injectors, especially on a close to stock jeep. The thing runs rich already. I'm probably one of the few with a wideband o2 sensor on my jeep, not a narrowband. Under WOT it is between 10 and 12:1 afr. It should be around 13:1. Now if you have some form of forced induction then go for it. And the 4 cylinder jeep fuel pump is the same ones used on the 6 cylinder, so there is more left in the pump.
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If these are 19lb, what are stock injectors?
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Hmmm, I do have a 4.0TB bored to 50mm, I wonder if the Stang injectors run cleaner than my 200kmile injectors now.
What is the lbs of the stock injectors?
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I just got a set of 5 off of Ebay coming. It's worth a shot.
I am thinking that after 200k+ miles that the stock injectors could be the reason for my motor running rich anyways if they are dripping instead of spraying.
For the $19 I paid for the Injectors Shipped, it worth a shot for bettter running better performing motor. :D
If it works, you can bet I will post it up.
If it doesn't work, I will stay in hiding. :lol:
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I just got a set of 5 off of Ebay coming. It's worth a shot.
I am thinking that after 200k+ miles that the stock injectors could be the reason for my motor running rich anyways if they are dripping instead of spraying.
For the $19 I paid for the Injectors Shipped, it worth a shot for bettter running better performing motor. :D
If it works, you can bet I will post it up.
If it doesn't work, I will stay in hiding. :lol:
Well here's my 2 cents. I think the stock injectors are around 16lbs. The fuel pressure at the injectors will still be regulated by the fuel pressure regulator and MAP. The only thing that might be better is the spray pattern which would help combustion. BTW: '95.5 and +'96 use a larger injector then the earlier YJ's.
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I just got a set of 5 off of Ebay coming. It's worth a shot.
I am thinking that after 200k+ miles that the stock injectors could be the reason for my motor running rich anyways if they are dripping instead of spraying.
For the $19 I paid for the Injectors Shipped, it worth a shot for bettter running better performing motor. :D
If it works, you can bet I will post it up.
If it doesn't work, I will stay in hiding. :lol:
Well here's my 2 cents. I think the stock injectors are around 16lbs. The fuel pressure at the injectors will still be regulated by the fuel pressure regulator and MAP. The only thing that might be better is the spray pattern which would help combustion. BTW: '95.5 and +'96 use a larger injector then the earlier YJ's.
So if that is true then it might just work because of the spray pattern. It cn't get any worse than whats in there now. It's worth a try.
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I would like to tell you guys what I did and how I went to Ford injectors. I have a 92 with 200K on it. I have a 4.o TB and spacer with a bored out intake amnifold also a K&N intake. There was a post a whaile back asking about high porformance injectors. He went to the web site posted below ford injectors. So I called that place and asked him some questions about the injectors. He told me they are stock injectors for ford mustangs. I was not willing to pay 160.00 for them so I went to a junkyard and pulled 4 of them out of a ford crown vic. I put them in my jeep and the things runs great. I can hold 70 MPH on the freeway no problem even going up hill. So I would like to disagree with some of you that say it will not help. Just looking at the injectors them self the jeep injectors have 1 sprayer the ford have 4. I am able to run at lower RPM at higher speed then before. Maybe I just got lucky but for a free upgrade I am very happy.
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I would like to tell you guys what I did and how I went to Ford injectors. I have a 92 with 200K on it. I have a 4.o TB and spacer with a bored out intake amnifold also a K&N intake. There was a post a whaile back asking about high porformance injectors. He went to the web site posted below ford injectors. So I called that place and asked him some questions about the injectors. He told me they are stock injectors for ford mustangs. I was not willing to pay 160.00 for them so I went to a junkyard and pulled 4 of them out of a ford crown vic. I put them in my jeep and the things runs great. I can hold 70 MPH on the freeway no problem even going up hill. So I would like to disagree with some of you that say it will not help. Just looking at the injectors them self the jeep injectors have 1 sprayer the ford have 4. I am able to run at lower RPM at higher speed then before. Maybe I just got lucky but for a free upgrade I am very happy.
See I would think the difference of the spray alone would make a difference like Jhcujo is saying.
I am gonna try it. All of us can do with a little more bottom end power. If it works as he says then there is proof in the pudding. Then we can say 2 people have tried it and it works.
We both have about the same mileage on our motors so I am hoping for the same result and if the pressure regulator will only give so much then the 19lbs injectors won't flood the engine it will just spray better, maybe a finer mist which we all know a finer mist makes for better throttle response and better combustion.
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So what are all the injectors that will work? I've been meaning to do this for some time now. (more then a few years) But never got around to do it.
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So what are all the injectors that will work? I've been meaning to do this for some time now. (more then a few years) But never got around to do it.
From what I can tell, any yellow top Ford injector that is rated at 19lbs. I just Picked up Mustang ones to make sure I got the correct ones.
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its threads like this that make me wish mty jeep was a 91 instead of a 90 :brick:
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its threads like this that make me wish mty jeep was a 91 instead of a 90 :brick:
Convert to the dark side. we have more fun :lol:
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which dark side...lol. if any i might put a v6 in my jeep... but that wont be for a while.... but in about 5-7 years i could proably get another yj for cheap that will be beat into the ground with no mantinence from the same person that gave me the jeep i have now.... he has a 95yj now(i think it has the 6banger) and i dont think he is treating his curent jeep anybeter than he did mine when it was his... he is/was a 0 mantinence driver.
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which dark side...lol. if any i might put a v6 in my jeep... but that wont be for a while.... but in about 5-7 years i could proably get another yj for cheap that will be beat into the ground with no mantinence from the same person that gave me the jeep i have now.... he has a 95yj now(i think it has the 6banger) and i dont think he is treating his curent jeep anybeter than he did mine when it was his... he is/was a 0 mantinence driver.
My dad just bought a 0 maintenace 95' Sahara for $1000 from his friend. I think it's been over heated not sure but my Dad plans to rebuild it. :D
Those can sometimes be good deals, sometimes not
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My other might4banger is a SVT focus... it has 30lb injectors (stock) you can pick those up from Ford racing thru Summit and other speed shops. FWIW - the SVTf has hot cams, high compression, header, dual stage intake runners and so on... It's just a 2.0L putting out 170 hp stock... but it's all top mid range/top end power.
I don't want to push my powerband up in the RPMs in my Jeep.
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the way that I figured out what injectors worked was I went to the 50motorstorts web site. I looked up what all years and models that went with the 19lb injectors. it is a long list basicly anything with the 4.6 motor be it a ford or a mercury. Also some 5.4 trucks I think it was the 350 F series.
One thing that I am planning on doing is getting 4 more injectors and sending them to a company that cleans and flow matches the injectors for 15.00 per. The way I see it I can get new injectors for 60 that the other place sells for 160.00.
I would really like to hear from other guys that put these things in. To see if they feel the samething that I do. But from all the stuff I have done 4.0 TB bored to 62mm, Elec fan. TB spacer, 62mm intake manifold and K&N intake. This one was the very best upgrade.
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I wouldn't be suprised if those ford injectors have a better spray pattern then the stock jeep ones, the whole jeep motor is inefficient. The fact is you don't need more fuel for your stock jeep, look in my sig i have the 4.0/spacer/bored intake/header etc. and mine still runs rich under WOT. Cruising conditions spray pattern is what matters since the jeep shoots for a target AFR. Find a better spray pattern with whatever the stock injector size is, or go with smaller ones and raise the fuel pressure. The stock fuel pressure is really low, which also doesn't help with a good spray pattern.
I will eventually be running other injectors, but i'll have megasquirt to tune for the larger injectors and higher fuel pressure.j
O yea, as for injectors. All of the bosch top feed injectors should work.
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Here are a bunch of the Ford/Mercury injector color codes:
3.0L GRAY - 14 lb./hr.
3.0L BLUE/GREEN - 25 lb./hr.
3.0L PINK - 24 lb./hr.
3.2L VIOLET - 24 lb./hr.
3.8L GRAY - 14 lb./hr.
3.8L GOLD - 19 lb./hr.
3.8L RED - 30 lb./hr.
3.8L DARK BLUE - 36 lb./hr.
4.6L BLUE - 24 lb./hr.
4.6L YELLOW - 19 lb./hr.
4.6L PINK - 19 lb./hr.
4.6L BLUE - 39 lb./hr.
5.0L YELLOW - 19 lb./hr.
5.4L LIME GREEN - 42 lb./hr.
If you go to the U-Pull-It yard, just look for a 4.6L engine. Most all are yellow. Pink if I recall, was used early in the production years. Just unbolt the fuel rails and the injectors will just pop out. I would reccomend new O-rings if there is any sign of distress. Not pricy at all. You will overpay going to the auto parts store or a stealership for the injectors.
Peter M
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Ok, this may be a dumb question but i'll ask it anyway... Will this work in the 02 tj's as well?
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yea, there are A LOT of options for injectors also. Tons of cars use the top feed injectors.
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Ok, I got the new injectors in. It's not a HUGE difference, but it does idle smoother, accelerate smoother and I do notice a little difference in the top end not being so easy to lose speed. BUT as far as a rush out and replace the injectors with these. I would say if you have over 100k on your motor then you prolly should replace your injectors cause yours are prolly worn. If you are already replacing them then use these 4.6L injectors. They work nicely.
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid214/p9918d7c17523b736abff50037f0eb9f1/ecfe0cb0.jpg)
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid214/p0c5380f08d021cb6ebf93ecff24f4687/ecfe0cb1.jpg)
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid214/pc98f29c27923e1a0253da4b2a5bdc62b/ecfe0cb2.jpg)
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Ok, I am changing my story a little. I have had enough drive time to actually see one MAJOR difference in the 19lbs injectors.
The difference I am referring to is, they run VERY RICH.
The small advantages of putting the injectors in is grossly offset by the nasty smell that it gives off from running so rich.
Last night I switched back.
I don't know if this is just my Jeep or what cause my Jeep has always ran rich compared to my Dad's Jeep that is only a year newer than mine but his doesn't smell nearly as bad as mine. So now I have switched back and I am not rich anymore.
Other Jeeps might be able to handle the extra fuel but mine doesn't. Just to many fumes from those injectors.
Funny thing is, it wasn't rich when I first put them in but I guess it took a little drive time to get the computer adjusted to the new injectors.
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hmmm... i would've never guessed that :wink: :D
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Ok, I got the new injectors in. It's not a HUGE difference, but it does idle smoother, accelerate smoother and I do notice a little difference in the top end not being so easy to lose speed. BUT as far as a rush out and replace the injectors with these. I would say if you have over 100k on your motor then you prolly should replace your injectors cause yours are prolly worn. If you are already replacing them then use these 4.6L injectors. They work nicely.
Are you running a 4.0.L t.b.? If not, this could be contributing to the richness.
I'm still going to install mine and test run them for a month. If I end up too rich I'll throw the old ones back in.
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according to his signature he is. I am running a 4.0/spacer/intake/header and my stock set-up runs rich under WOT... I tried to say this in the beginning of the thread and nobody listened. You dont need bigger injectors, a set with a better spray pattern would be nice though.
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according to his signature he is. I am running a 4.0/spacer/intake/header and my stock set-up runs rich under WOT... I tried to say this in the beginning of the thread and nobody listened. You dont need bigger injectors, a set with a better spray pattern would be nice though.
yup, I should have checked his sig.
Does anyone produce a better injector that will fit? Anything else with a 16lb rating that will work? What about some type of adjustable valve on the fuel rail/line to control the volume of flow?
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You can get an adjustable FPR, which will increase or decrease the pressure... Although i wouldn't decrease the pressure any, it is already low. I'm unsure which injectors are the same size as stock, i've only looked into larger ones.
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If they are running rich, can you increase the timing a bit?
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you could do better with a good afr gauge and adjustable fuel press reg and adjustable map sensor. i may give this a try but my results will differ due to the amount of work done to my engine. what widebands are you guys running and where did you get them. I need a true wideband to start the next tuning cycle with mine.
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I'm running a PLX M300, i've had it for awhile, used it on my old honda. Got it off of honda-tech a year or two ago for alittle under 200 shipped (it was used on a drag car until he parted out the project)
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No wideband here. Just can't justify the price right now. Things are getting modified on my Jeep but it's a slower than usual process for me. I want to get all the engine mods done prior to suspension and tires.
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If they are running rich, can you increase the timing a bit?
This won't change the air to fuel ratio since it doesn't increase air or fuel. It just changes where teh combustion occurs.
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Yea, as stated i am running the 4.0 TB but I will just stick with the standard injectors. They seem to be the best for my setup right now.
I think if I could find a 16lb with the 4 hole spray nozzle it would be better and I would see what I saw with the 19lbs but not as rich.
In about 6 months I will have my house completed, hopefully then I can start on building my little 4 banger. That will get the power I want. :D
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Came across this for injector cleaning and testing, very affordable:
www.cruzinperformance.com/injsteps.html
www.cruzinperformance.com/fuelinj.html
(http://www.cruzinperformance.com/injimages/injcleaning.jpg)
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Came across this for injector cleaning and testing, very affordable:
www.cruzinperformance.com/injsteps.html
www.cruzinperformance.com/fuelinj.html
(http://www.cruzinperformance.com/injimages/injcleaning.jpg)
That's not bad. Kinda cool actually
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What's the difference between '91-'95 injectors and '95.5+ injectors?
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What's the difference between '91-'95 injectors and '95.5+ injectors?
dunno
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I believer they bumped up the pressure a few psi.
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I believer they bumped up the pressure a few psi.
So the spray pattern is still a single hole?
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I believer they bumped up the pressure a few psi.
So the spray pattern is still a single hole?
I don't remember, probably. John Swink was going to go with alter injectors before he blew up his engine and swapped it out. I remember him mentioning the different OEM injectors. I think the later TJ injectors may have even been 4.0L injectors. But again it's been a while since I did any research on it.
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interesting topic. I have rebuilt 2.5, 60 over, decked the block, valve job, rv II cam, complete rebuild. Did the 4.0 tb, spacer, Intake w/filter.
I am looking to get a set for me. My son has a 4.0 and I was wondering if these 19# injectors would work on his also. Does anyone know?
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They should work.
I believe my injectors are '95.5 if anybody wants to compare injector numbers or color/shape to a '91-'94.
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Do you all know if this will work on the 4 cylinder in a '98 TJ?
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I just finished reading this thread. Good info, thanks to all that posted. I have a question about the mustang injectors and how they might relate to my set-up.
Here's a few specs:
2000 TJ
2.5L
Jet Chip Stage 2
4.0 TB
TB Spacer
Banks Manifold & Exhaust
Here's my situation...
I have tried several different air intake options. Short Tubes, Cone filters, 4.0L airtubes, etc. but everytime I use a set-up to get "more air" I lose top end speed/power (It's noticably sluggish on the hwy). When I resort to the factory airbox/contraption I gain it back. The only thing I can deduce is that I'm dumping too much air into the system with the various intake attempts.
and my question...
With the mods that I have done, and my results with the air intake, would the larger injectors help the situation? Of course the goal is to squeek out as much power as possible.
Any insight would be appreciated.
KO
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I just finished reading this thread. Good info, thanks to all that posted. I have a question about the mustang injectors and how they might relate to my set-up.
Here's a few specs:
2000 TJ
2.5L
Jet Chip Stage 2
4.0 TB
TB Spacer
Banks Manifold & Exhaust
Here's my situation...
I have tried several different air intake options. Short Tubes, Cone filters, 4.0L airtubes, etc. but everytime I use a set-up to get "more air" I lose top end speed/power (It's noticably sluggish on the hwy). When I resort to the factory airbox/contraption I gain it back. The only thing I can deduce is that I'm dumping too much air into the system with the various intake attempts.
and my question...
With the mods that I have done, and my results with the air intake, would the larger injectors help the situation? Of course the goal is to squeek out as much power as possible.
Any insight would be appreciated.
KO
It would seem that adding the injectors might help your situation. As cheap as you can pick up a used set of injectors on Ebay for, you might as well try it out. Let us know how it does for you.
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Well, I'm not sure if it would help. The biggest thing with the injectors is the improved spray pattern. Running the injectors might help and for $30, would be a good idea but you'll probably want to run an adjustable map to fix the problem.
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Thanks for the replies. When I get this done I'll post back on the results.
KO
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Well I did some research and found out the purpose of the plastic cap on the injectors and why replacements don't seem to have them. The caps are there to aid in the assembly process to allign the injector with the whole in the manifold as the robot inserts them. They serve no functional purpose in the function of the engine and can be removed without any problem.
Gregg
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Well I did some research and found out the purpose of the plastic cap on the injectors and why replacements don't seem to have them. The caps are there to aid in the assembly process to allign the injector with the whole in the manifold as the robot inserts them. They serve no functional purpose in the function of the engine and can be removed without any problem.
Gregg
Good to know
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Well I did some research and found out the purpose of the plastic cap on the injectors and why replacements don't seem to have them. The caps are there to aid in the assembly process to allign the injector with the whole in the manifold as the robot inserts them. They serve no functional purpose in the function of the engine and can be removed without any problem.
Gregg
Gotta a source?
The problem I see without using the caps is that the O-ring might not seat properly and will likely come off removing the injector. The plastic spacer will then fall off, too. The cap is metal on the Denso Injector and is pressed on. I'm not sure if it can come off. The cap on the Ford is plastic and is replaceable. The plastic caps do help protect the injector jets. The caps are so cheap, why save a $1 when you're going to have to spend $4 for the seal and spacer anyway. If you by the seals alone they will not come with spacers. Out of the 4 injectors I received, only one injector had intact O-rings. Most of the lowers and a few of the uppers were torn. All of them were a bit hard too.
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I agree with jeff actually, I just wanted to pass the info along for what it's worth. One of the guys works for advance and proved his point by pulling out replacement injectors and showed me a couple replacement injectors from stock that had the orings on them but no caps or spacers.
Gregg
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Did anyone ever come up with a 16lb injector with a better spray pattern? From what I got from this thread, I am thinking that the mustang yellow top injectors are too much fuel . . .
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I'm running the 19lb injectors, 62mm TB, custom intake (pulls from outside, heat tape on intake and intake manifold, different tube/filter) , PDI ignition. Don't have any numbers, but low end torque w/19lb injectors seems slightly improved. And engine will definitely wind out to 5000 no problem now. I might suspect that this setup would result in a rich condition. But I just passed a Cal Air Resource Board (CARB) smog test at the end of last week (Fortunately the dude at the shop I was using didn't go berzerk when he did the visual inspection on the engine bay; He let the non-CARB intake slide). This kind of leads me to believe that the air/fuel ratio is in decent order despite the injector change (Though my reasoning on that air/fuel conclusion may be more wishful thinking than certainty)
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I'm running the 19lb injectors, 62mm TB, custom intake (pulls from outside, heat tape on intake and intake manifold, different tube/filter) , PDI ignition. Don't have any numbers, but low end torque w/19lb injectors seems slightly improved. And engine will definitely wind out to 5000 no problem now. I might suspect that this setup would result in a rich condition. But I just passed a Cal Air Resource Board (CARB) smog test at the end of last week (Fortunately the dude at the shop I was using didn't go berzerk when he did the visual inspection on the engine bay; He let the non-CARB intake slide). This kind of leads me to believe that the air/fuel ratio is in decent order despite the injector change (Though my reasoning on that air/fuel conclusion may be more wishful thinking than certainty)
Are you running stock cat/exhaust?
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Yeah its stock cat, but Borla Cat-Back.