4bangerjp.com
General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: YJmechanic on September 03, 2005, 11:24:49 AM
-
Anyone who has been here long enough may remember about a year ago asking tons of questions about engine options. I took a year, because of time and money mostly, but it is finally done. I tore down my 94 2.5 and started from scratch basically. I bored the block 60, ran forged pistons, had clifford make me a custom cam, hydro lifters, double valvle springs, hardened push rods and valve locks, head was ported and polished, deck was shaved to get 10.5-1 compression, 10/10 crank, all tri-metal bearings, borla header, poweraid tbs, high flow water and oil pumps, cromoly rings, sanded and shot-peened connecting rods, 8mm wires and blaster coil. I think that is about when I ran out of money but the motor is incredible now. It runs best in high rpm and runs to about 6500. The only problem I have now is the tranny is having syncro problems, I think. I have to tear it down but if you don't want to use force induction this is a good solution. My milage is about 15-20 depending. It has more power than my 4.0 does.
-
Sweet!!!
This is something I've been thinking about for a couple years now, but I don't have much experience rebuilding engines. Have you thought about doing an in depth write-up for us novices?
-
I can if anybody wants me to, but it may be better broken down into specifics than a fifty page story of the entire build. Also I can say that this is the most in-depth engine I have ever built and it only took service manuals, time and a few questions to the apprpriate people. Getting the custom parts made is the longest part of the process.
-
Are you running a quality synthetic in the tranny like Redline MT90?
Hope nobody is still running GL5 in the AX trannies :oops:
-
It has mopar full synthetic 75-140 in it now. I think I either have syncros or a problem with the spring linkage bar inside the tranny. I will found out soon as I get some spare time.
-
Well after hearing a report like that I wonder what I could get out of my 2.5 if I built it for a supercharger??
-
You will probably get about the same output maybe more. Just remember that you can't do the kind of build I did plus a supercharger. The compressions is too high and a charger would blow the bottom end out. I am trying to run the numbers to see if I can run a small amount of boost like only 5psi but it is still a game of chance that it'll be ok.
-
So, first off, how much did all that cost?
Next, does anyone know what the stock HP of a 2.5 is?
And finally, how much HP do you think you have out of it now?
-
grand total i think i spent about $1500 total rebuilding and machining. That's with me doing all the work. You can't even buy a stock motor for close to that and the 4.0 swap would have cost even more. The cost and the fact that I've never seen one of these built this much was my reason. I think the stock horsepower is about 120hp and the last time I had mine checked at about 90,000miles, was down to about 100hp with normal wear. Rough estimate I'd say I'm at about 200hp now. Stock 4.0 are 190hp and mine feels much stronger than my 4.0 used to be or any of the new 4.0s on my lot. So I'm just estimating on feel alone but I'd say safely about 200hp and I spent less than most of the other options I had. I can run down all the ricky-racers in town with 33's, so I'm happy.
-
Dang, that's pretty cheap!! You'd probably spend around $2500 for a rebuilt and $3500-$4000 for a crate motor, right? Sure wish I had the know-how and space to do that sort of thing...... :cry:
-
Dang, that's pretty cheap!! You'd probably spend around $2500 for a rebuilt and $3500-$4000 for a crate motor, right? Sure wish I had the know-how and space to do that sort of thing...... :cry:
psh same here....
-
You will probably get about the same output maybe more. Just remember that you can't do the kind of build I did plus a supercharger. The compressions is too high and a charger would blow the bottom end out. I am trying to run the numbers to see if I can run a small amount of boost like only 5psi but it is still a game of chance that it'll be ok.
Ya I am aware to the limitations of forced induction as to C/R and such. I have rebuilt a few engines before but right now am torn on building my 4popper or doing a V-8 swap.
-
Hey Mechanic,
Can you give me a list of specific parts and where you bought them as well as all the work you did to build your 2.5L. I wanna build the same formula. I pm'd you but I guess you haven't checked it lately so I figure this would at least email you.
Any advise you can give would be appreciated.
I plan to get all the parts together as well as a donor block and build it before my 200k+ 2.5L goes. It's feeling funny from time to time so I want to go ahead and get building.
Thanks in advnace.
-
Yep, the list and and a little write up would be nice. I got a 2.5 with 122K lookin for a little tweakin'. :lol:
mike
-
Yep, the list and and a little write up would be nice. I got a 2.5 with 122K lookin for a little tweakin'. :lol:
mike
I know what you are saying. Mine reads 171k miles but it's on 31x9.50's for the last 4 years so I am thinkin it's more like over 200k. The speed odemter is off by about 10 miles per hour. :shock:
-
You do understand that you lose a bit of performance when you're VSS isn't calibrated, right? Also, the % of error should be progressive, so the faster you go the more it's off. I suspect it's accurate enough at lower speeds then probably around 60-70, you start noticing it. Becase of the larger tires, the PCM thinks you're going slower then you actually are, which throws off the timing and air/fuel mixture a bit.
-
You do understand that you lose a bit of performance when you're VSS isn't calibrated, right? Also, the % of error should be progressive, so the faster you go the more it's off. I suspect it's accurate enough at lower speeds then probably around 60-70, you start noticing it. Becase of the larger tires, the PCM thinks you're going slower then you actually are, which throws off the timing and air/fuel mixture a bit.
Hmmm, something to think about.
-
sorry it's been awhile since I posted but I was in the process of getting a new computer and switching service providers. My email and everything else will be different soon. I will get everything hoooked up in a few days and then I will start remembering everything from the last year of this buildup. Sorry again but be patient with me and I will get to everybody or do a writeup on it on the other page.
-
sorry it's been awhile since I posted but I was in the process of getting a new computer and switching service providers. My email and everything else will be different soon. I will get everything hoooked up in a few days and then I will start remembering everything from the last year of this buildup. Sorry again but be patient with me and I will get to everybody or do a writeup on it on the other page.
Cool I appreciate it. :D
-
any word on what has happened to this?? is it still running? any pics?? prices?? lifts??
-
I'm interested in the cam specs and the contact you used to get it done. I've never delt with clifford before. Do tell the details of the cam profile and price and such, I'm dying to know!
-
I haven't been around for a little while. Did you ever do that full write up on your 2.5L Performance build up?
-
I would guess most of the power came from boring 60 over, 10/10 crank, cam, and shaving the deck. Chrome Moly rings take forever to seat which means the power should increase more once they actually do seat.
-
I haven't been around for a little while. Did you ever do that full write up on your 2.5L Performance build up?
Never mind on this question, I found the thread.
-
I would guess most of the power came from boring 60 over, 10/10 crank, cam, and shaving the deck. Chrome Moly rings take forever to seat which means the power should increase more once they actually do seat.
Oh definately, the bore and the shaved deck, and cam is where the power is. Also the balancing of the block makes a large difference. Like another one of YJmechanic posts says, you lose power in the slop in the motor. Tight motor frees up the power.
-
What effect did the bigger cam have on your low end? Does is still idle well for crawling and what about low end torque.The compression is good for the torque but sometimes the cam can kill the low end. I'm rebuilding mine now. By the way crate motors (rebuilt) run around $1200 - $1600
-
What effect did the bigger cam have on your low end? Does is still idle well for crawling and what about low end torque.The compression is good for the torque but sometimes the cam can kill the low end. I'm rebuilding mine now. By the way crate motors (rebuilt) run around $1200 - $1600
I haven't actually installed my Stage 3 Mpoar Cam yet BUT I have read they actually give it MUCH better low end. Less lack from 500-2800 rpms. I researched them before I committed to buying one. AND they are relatively cheap if you can actually find one. They stopped making them so they are hard to find. I posted up looking for one and found two so I got one for $30 and the other for $40. Good Deal It think for extra power.
I believe it is a lot like a RV cam. If YJmechanic was on the board he could probably atest to this.
My Dad and myself both bought the stage 3 cams for this reason. Mine has been sitting under my rear seat waiting for my rebuild.
As for the crate motors, I would rather rebuild it myself or break it down and have NAPA rebuild so I can make sure it is built correctly.
Also I think boring .60 over will help the low end too cause you are adding cubic inches which should add more power.
-
wow you guys stumbled upon an old post post. that thread is from last year. anyway the motor is running fine and I have no regrets so far. the only problem may be a valve seal that may have been torn when I went back an changed the springs the second time but other than that everything is ok. I am looking a wideband o2 and possibly adjustable reg and map with some bigger injectors to play a little more. the cam is a clifford and the key to the torque in in the duration and not lift. yes it is like an rv cam. my cam was custom cut to resemble the mopar cams but changed slightly to fit my needs. I have to search for the exact specs but call cliford. they have a list of cams they can cut( ones the have prints for) and I think mine is listed as 426 but I'm not sure off hand I know they said they could go one bigger yet to like510 but that was to tall for me. Too much lift and you lose low end. stay to duration rather than lift iwth tall tires. yes block work is what made most of the power and as always tight and efficient is what makes the power. I still have yet to see thins kind of work done to this motor anywhere else and probably never will but there is a 4bangerjp sticker across my hood and I bring everybody to this sight. as for the writeup there is one but I have to check if it has suppliers and prices or not.
-
Well I was wondering what was the price cost of all this? I am undecided do I want a 5.2L Magnum motor or rebuild my 60K mile 2.5L for more power? I have an auto so. IDK
Thanks
Anthony
-
it cost about 1500 to build but i think it is well worth the money cause it is still running great and i have no problems with it. changing motors to a v-8 will be a lot of expense with all the conversions.
-
i bought a create motor for only 1300 hundred and it came with a three year warranty unlimited mileage. i was told it would have cost me double that to hop it up i wish i would have now noing it would of cost me just a little bit more.
-
it cost about 1500 to build but i think it is well worth the money cause it is still running great and i have no problems with it. changing motors to a v-8 will be a lot of expense with all the conversions.
It will cost me around 3-4k for the whole swap.. Just looking at other options..
Anthony
-
well thats what i looked at and couldn't justify spending twice as much and going through all the conversion work when i knew i could get the power out of that 4cyl if i tried.
-
Do u have the spec list of parts that u used and did what...
thanks
Anthony
-
You will probably get about the same output maybe more. Just remember that you can't do the kind of build I did plus a supercharger. The compressions is too high and a charger would blow the bottom end out. I am trying to run the numbers to see if I can run a small amount of boost like only 5psi but it is still a game of chance that it'll be ok.
3 lb boost = 1 point compression.
-
yj mechanic, Nice job. I did a rebuild similar to yours and love the performance. It cost me about the same as you. I financed mine by stripping a cherokee that was given to me and finding a 2.5 motor tranny and t-case for $300. Selling parts from the Cherokee and the 2.5 tranny t-case and the old motor from mine the cost out of pocket was about $300.
My extras since my build are an intake, 4.0 tb, tb spacer and the ford 19lb injectors.
For the type of build you did you will like what the 19 lb injectors. There was a very noticeable difference when I installed them.
I went 60 over, deck the block, valves, rv cam, etc...
-
yeah i was looking at the injectors and haven't made up my mind yet because i will want to run a afr gauge with them and then probably an adjustable map and then i'm going to get pricey before i know it.
there was a complete build up of the motor and parts but i'm not sure if it is still on the other forum or not, look around them ask jeffy if you can't find it. if nothing else i will try to repost again when i get the time.
-
knowing this is probably a dead thread.. but does anyone have the actual build up for this engine?? im highly interested.. my 2.5 is well past its prime.. and i dont have the means for a larger swap! any help would be of great value!
-BAJA
-
knowing this is probably a dead thread.. but does anyone have the actual build up for this engine?? im highly interested.. my 2.5 is well past its prime.. and i dont have the means for a larger swap! any help would be of great value!
-BAJA
I recommend reading the current threads then checking the FAQ and the Tech forums. Then when you're done, search. After that, start a new thread if you have any additional questions.
-
i'm not sure if the build list is still up somewhere or not. i would take some time but i may be able to come up with it again.
i got the injectors but haven't put them in yet. also got 4.0 tb but it hasn't gotten here yet. we'll see what happens next for my little super 4
-
I think there's an advantage to being lightweight, but mud runs is where HP really shines.
-
being light def has its advantages. i dont know how many times my lil 4banger has made it out of tough spots that even my K5 lbuddies got stuck in... all that with a stock 2.5L w/ only a air intake. cant think what i could do with it beefed up ya know. but ya no ya YJ if you could draw up some Specs. that would be hella great info.
-BAJA
-
I just posted up in the work bench but since we are on the subject of rebuilds does anyone know where I can get rod bolts for the 2.5?
-
I'm going to reply to this thread, even if it's old, and I'm a noob, I'm looking for the specs of this build if it's out there, I tried searching and reading all the build threads I can find, and I keep comming back to this thread as what i want to follow for my build. I do have a question for you YJmechanic, what compression are you running/what grade gas is needed for this build? I want to build my 2.5 close to this, but I want to end up on 87, even if I have to lose some hp.
-
i'm at about 10:1/ 10.5:1 and i won't run less than 89 but seems to run ok on 89. i just don't run 87 in anything so i can't tell you if it will run it or not. cmpression can be set at whatever you want just tell the machinicst how low to cut the deck and or what your gasket thickness.
-
YJmechanic you said that your machine will rock up to 6500 rpms. I want to know if you did something electrical to get those numbers.... I know that comes from evreything u did internally.. but im saying did you ALSO have to change something electrical to get that high rpm? thanks. Also whats a 10/10 crank? is that something that the machine shop does to your crank? Thanks MIke
-
i run large wires and a hot coil with a wide gap but the ignition is factory. 10/10 crank means the crank was machined and balanced out to make it run smoother. 10/10 means 10 off the rod journals and 10 off the main journals. it is just a measurement of the machine work. remeber if you do that though you need to adjust the bearings accordingly
-
How did you get around the oem rev limiter?
-
What is The OEM Rpm limit anyway?
-
honestly mine has never had one or it has never worked and i have had mine since almost new
-
honestly mine has never had one or it has never worked and i have had mine since almost new
IIRC, it's supposed to be at around 5500rpm. Although it doesn't seem to kick in if you happen to downshift. :uhoh: :whistle:
-
i don't know i just know that mine doesn't exist and never has. i guess i lucked out on that one. it can't be that hard to over ride anyway.
-
Im fixing to start a new build and would like the spec on this engine build if possible...
Thanxs,
Oakey
-
Im fixing to start a new build and would like the spec on this engine build if possible...
Thanxs,
Oakey
Talk about digging up an old thread! Oakey, make sure you take notes and post them along the way. I would be interested in following if it works out nice.
-
Please let us know how your build is going because there are many of us that would like to be able to pass our six cylinder friends on the way to the trail. thanx :thumb:
-
yes i have to agree with everyone else oakey please keep us posted
-
Would my 95 YJ have a rev limiter on it? I've never really rev'ed it up that high and don't really plan to heh
-
Would my 95 YJ have a rev limiter on it? I've never really rev'ed it up that high and don't really plan to heh
id think it would
-
Mine kicks in at 4200 and have no idea how to get rid of it or at least get it up to 5500.
-
Mine kicks in at 4200 and have no idea how to get rid of it or at least get it up to 5500.
Why would you need that high amount of RPMs?
-
The Street :)
-
The Street :)
Ah, burning rubber, arent we?
-
Hell NO
Freeways
-
Hell NO
Freeways
Regear is properly and freeways shouldn't be too bad.
-
with the new Exhaust & electric fan the 4:10 and 31's don't do so bad on the freeway. And i am starting to like this tall 2nd gear. I have been wondering tho maybe a lower 4wd ratio would be a better choice than regearing the 4.10's.
-
Why would you need that high amount of RPMs?
MUD BOGGIN
-
wow i can't believe this thread is still going, it is in its 3rd year now! anyway it has been awhile again, but i had a baby and bought a house and that kind of sucks up your time. other than that the motor still runs fine. power is slowly increasing as the motor seats in ( i know if has been years but it still only has about 1200 miles on it), i now have the 19lb injectors and 4.0 tb, and fomaco fan, also changed to 35's and 456 gears, with an 8.8 rear, glad to see that everyone is still interested in the build. let me know if there is questions and i will try to answer them
-
ditto, i'd like to get a little info from you as well i love my four banger but want to get a little more meat and potatoes under the hood
-
meat and potatoes under the hood, LMAO
-
How are those 19 lb injectors working out for you? I plan on adding an MSD 6A box, Blaster coil, and a TB spacer to mine in the next couple of months. Planning on installing a wide ban o2 sensor as well. I've already installed the 4.0 TB and I'm thinking I can safely add a bit more fuel and spark to gain a couple extra ponies :biggrin:
-
i wanted to put a wideband in mine, but didn't find a good deal. i have a narrow in there though and the lights are flashing at the right time, so i will leave it at that for now. it is not running specifically rich or anything so the injectors were a good fit for the motor i built,
-
:thumb: YJmechanic, I want to thank you. Your original postings three years ago were part of my inspiration to build my banger. I didn't get as involved as you, but still got a good power increase and a noticable torque increase. I still have a few things to do performance wise, but am happy with it- especially when I can spank a 4.0 or even a built rig on the trail. Thanks again!
-
that's why i built it, just to show it could work
-
yj it is great that someone got such performance out of this little enginge that could! i read the whole thread and didn't see a parts list of the engine mods and internal specs that got you such great results! i have built engines before and can put a great atv together but can't seem to do the math on car engines!
PLEASE GIVE US A COMPLETE RUNDOWN of what went into your build for those of us engine challenged!!
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!
-
i sent messages back to everyone that had questions ( I think I got them all), i will have to do another build list in the other forum again when i get the chance, i love my motor but the v8 idea has been popping up in my head again lately, so we will see what happens, maybe my cracked out 4banger will be for sale someday. until then i will run my little motor and amaze people on the trail and road with the little power house and keep rocking my 4bangerjp sticker on my hood.
-
Sounds like a great Idea, I've been waiting a LONG time to see that list! haha. Thanks for coming back, where might you have been?
-
I've been waiting a LONG time to see that list! haha.
Me too!
-
i'm always around but i get distracted easily by other toys and my new family, but then i run some trails and my jeep spark is all new again.
-
Sounds like a great Idea, I've been waiting a LONG time to see that list! haha. Thanks for coming back, where might you have been?
x2 heck thats the main reason I joined the site, to find out the info on this build, lol.
-
Can we see some build pics or at least some of the parts or pics of it in your Jeep at least? Your killing me with this build, I want to see some of the pics of it being put together. I want to build mine up like yours when mine takes a shist, it has 146,000 miles on it right now and runs great though...
-
don't know tht i have many pictures of me building it, i can try and make a new sheet for all the parts and build though, let me try and get time this weekend.
-
i can try and make a new sheet for all the parts and build though, let me try and get time this weekend.
Thanks in advanced, dude! I am still between this build and the turbo, but I am leaning more this way for a couple of reasons (simplicity, reliability and drivability being the main ones)...
-
yeah i've had lots of turbos and they turn into more of a headache then they're worth some times. NA motors and the reliable way to go for something that is on/offroad
-
list is done, its in projects section, check it out let me know if i forgot something and let me know what you think of the old girl ( i put up some pics too)
-
list is done, its in projects section, check it out let me know if i forgot something and let me know what you think of the old girl ( i put up some pics too)
Thanks, dude!
-
Thanks, dude!
x2
-
no problem let me know if you have further questions
-
if you still have that write up i wold love to get a look at it
i got a 97 2.5 with 137 about
she needs so tweaking to get some more out of her
cause i would love to blow away some of those ricers and my friends in those pussy 4s
-
its in the projects section
-
thanks
helped out alot
-
no problem/ always glad to help
-
Rather impressive buildup for $1500. One of these days, when the Monte Carlo is done and I have some cash to mess around with I'm gonna build up a 2.5 for mine. Considering I only get 14 mpg in the city, I don't think there's much to lose.
-
my mileage is better than that with the build and running 35's/ i also run all my gear all the time, not sure of your setup but you should be able to get better than 14
-
anybody else start their builds yet? had tons of questions and just curious if anybody tried it yet
-
anybody else start their builds yet? had tons of questions and just curious if anybody tried it yet
I am just starting to gather parts; I already got the Mopar Performance cam and tappet package. Still need to get all the rest of the parts before I go tearing the engine apart...
-
i have an extra 2.5 tore apart, started looking around for parts and machine shops...also decided i want to put an automatic trans behind it. Have seen a couple of 4.0/32rh for sale around here for about what i would have in the motor build and decide that might be my way to go. Still on the fence about it.
-
cool glad to see everybody starting to get into this motor a little
-
hey yj im building a motor now and was just wondering what u used for fasteners in the bottom end. stock ones aint gonna do it. also what springs and retainers did u use i found a bunch but need to make a decision
thanks
-
all the retainers and springs/ pretty much all hardware came from clifford performance in california/ they are the inline specialists/ they can walk you through pretty much everything
-
My cam is from MOPAR, but those are a rare find now a days...
-
i was going for a mopar cam but couldnt find one so i went to clifford and have no complaints