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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: Jeffy on April 16, 2010, 12:01:02 AM
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Since this has come up in a few threads, I thought it should have it's own thread.
What's a good general purpose welder that will be able to do stuff like sheet metal to axles and frames?
The big 6 that everyone seems to use on Jeep forums are the:
Lincoln 140 (replaced the 135) 115v
Lincoln 180 230v
Hobart Handler 140 115v
Hobart Handler 187 230v
Miller Millermatic 140 115v
Miller Millermatic 180 230v
The nice think about the Millermatics is the unlimited adjustments rather then having preset settings for the dials. Also, the new ones have Auto-Start which allows you to set the metal thickness and the wire used and it will preset the machine to optimum settings for you. (good for beginners.) I've been told to always go with the 230v machines if you can since they have more power and can do 1/4" on a single pass rather then having to undercut or take multiple passes. Although the 115v machines are good for on the go. A few friends keep one in their RV for repairs.
Now this only covers MIG welders. I have only personally done the old Oxy/Acc torches which was always a PITA. Then there is TIG. Never got into TIG although I've only seen it really used for exhausts and aluminum. The welds seem to be really clean but I've heard it's a lot more difficult then MIG which is pretty easy to learn.
So, what have you.
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Now lets say I would like to do a Ford 8.8 rear end swap in my YJ, would a mig be suffiecent in my welding needs (welding shock mounts on the axle and frame, and what ever the FAQ's describe)? Or is Oxy/Acyl the option? Or is both?
I'm asking as I have no-welding experience and this will be one of my latest learning paths. BTW, I do plan on practicing and building on small things to build my skills before attacking my driveline :pot:.
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I run a good 'ol Lincoln buzz box, works great for me. I used 55% nickel rods to burn the 8.8's tubes to the center chunk.
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I've got a Hobart 180, which is capable of just about anything that I want to do. The only time I've had to borrow a larger welder was when I built a rear D60. Used a Miller 251 for that task rather than making multiple passes with the small welder.
The newer Hobart 187 has more taps than mine, but I've never found myself longing for more granular power adjustment than I can accomplish with the 4 taps and infinite wire speed.
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I have a Miller Thunderbolt 225v stick welder that works just fine, but I love using my friend's Millermatic!
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i initially bought a Mastercraft MIG/flux (does both) 100amp, can weld ok but anything serious is too small.
Found a brand new chinese made AC/DC TIG/stick Riland 200amp with foot pedal on ebay "best offer" with free shipping, i threw an offer on there not expecting to be accepted but the seller took it - had pre flow, post flow and downslope adjustments, works surprisingly well considering all the bad things i read about the chinese welders. The only thing i don't like is that you're limited to 60Hz for AC, tried some aluminum welding but doesn't look pretty and i'm sure it's mostly my fault. Can weld pretty much anything as far as thickness goes, i used it with good results on mild steel and stainless steel so far.
Now lets say I would like to do a Ford 8.8 rear end swap in my YJ, would a mig be suffiecent in my welding needs (welding shock mounts on the axle and frame, and what ever the FAQ's describe)? Or is Oxy/Acyl the option? Or is both?
I'm asking as I have no-welding experience and this will be one of my latest learning paths. BTW, I do plan on practicing and building on small things to build my skills before attacking my driveline :pot:.
i'm no expert - personally i wouldn't use oxyacetylene on an axle, as a matter of fact i would stay away on using it at all on a vehicle. You could use it to preheat the diff housing in case you want to weld the tubes or anything else on it but that's about it.
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Definitely go with a 230V machine, Miller 180, Hobart 180 (made by Miller), Lincoln 180 are only good for a max of 5/16" steel and 1/4" AL.(spoolgun attachment) in one pass and that's with a duty cycle of 135A @30%. The Miller Passport & Millermatic 211 are good for a max of 3/8" steel & 1/4" AL. and are dual voltage. Anything thicker (1/2" one pass) and you need to step up to the Miller 252, I have the Miller 251 which the 252 replaced awesome machine. If your looking to go with a Tig machine it again depends on what thickness you plan to weld and if you want to weld AL. If you just want to weld steel, stainless and some of their alloys you only need DC, for AL and other alloys you'll want AC/DC. The new Miller Diversion 165A is good for 3/16" Steel or AL (one pass) ,a Miller Dynasty 200A machine is good for a max of 1/4" steel or AL (one pass). I have a Miller Dynasty 300DX AC/DC with the water cooled torch which is good for a max of 3/8" steel or AL. (one pass). Stick with a a good brand, Miller, Hobart, Lincoln etc. they all have a good track record and with Tig welders the consumables are a lot easier to come by.
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Now lets say I would like to do a Ford 8.8 rear end swap in my YJ, would a mig be suffiecent in my welding needs (welding shock mounts on the axle and frame, and what ever the FAQ's describe)? Or is Oxy/Acyl the option? Or is both?
I'm asking as I have no-welding experience and this will be one of my latest learning paths. BTW, I do plan on practicing and building on small things to build my skills before attacking my driveline :pot:.
A Mig welder is sufficient for your needs but nothing smaller than a 230v 180 Miller, Hobart, Lincoln etc.
Take welding and metal fab. courses before you start modifying your vehicle, it is something you want to be competent at for your own safety as well as others.
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Definitely go with a 230V machine, Miller 180, Hobart 180 (made by Miller), Lincoln 180 are only good for a max of 5/16" steel and 1/4" AL.(spoolgun attachment) in one pass and that's with a duty cycle of 135A @30%. The Miller Passport & Millermatic 211 are good for a max of 3/8" steel & 1/4" AL. and are dual voltage. Anything thicker (1/2" one pass) and you need to step up to the Miller 252, I have the Miller 251 which the 252 replaced awesome machine. If your looking to go with a Tig machine it again depends on what thickness you plan to weld and if you want to weld AL. If you just want to weld steel, stainless and some of their alloys you only need DC, for AL and other alloys you'll want AC/DC. The new Miller Diversion 165A is good for 3/16" Steel or AL (one pass) ,a Miller Dynasty 200A machine is good for a max of 1/4" steel or AL (one pass). I have a Miller Dynasty 300DX AC/DC with the water cooled torch which is good for a max of 3/8" steel or AL. (one pass). Stick with a a good brand, Miller, Hobart, Lincoln etc. they all have a good track record and with Tig welders the consumables are a lot easier to come by.
This concurs with what I've been told.
Hobart is now part of Miller and has been for a while now. It's their value-line. IIRC, the differences come down to some little things like metal gears, and it has more adjustments.
A Mig welder is sufficient for your needs but nothing smaller than a 230v 180 Miller, Hobart, Lincoln etc.
Take welding and metal fab. courses before you start modifying your vehicle, it is something you want to be competent at for your own safety as well as others.
Stick/Arc welder would also be a good choice as well. Although, the welds aren't as nice but they are as strong.
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I am using a Lincoln 135 using .035 flux core. It's my buddies machine on perma loan. He has a bottle for it. I used it once with the bottle but it really cools the weld down. So I just use the flux. I am surprise with as small of a machine how much I am able to do with it. I have run it on 3/16 with success. The disadvantages of flux is the mess it makes. There is a ton of spatter. There are some sprays avail. to help with the spatter clean up.
The advantages of flux are, it burns much hotter, and does not care if the wind is blowing a gale or not. Since there always seems to be a slight breeze or a fair amount of wind (my garage faces the wind) the flux is the best choice. If using a gas mix the wind gets blown away with the slightest breeze, which makes the weld junk!
I also have a Ready Welder II. This is pretty much a spool gun that runs on batteries. You can run many various battery set ups to change the power. With 3 batteries in series you can weld 1/2 inch plate single pass! It will work with a bottle too. It can run .023-.045 wire, either flux or solid depending if you run a bottle.
I bring this with me wheeling. I also run .035 wire in it. This was the first welder I used since going to welding class. It was the only one I had for a few years. It is an amazing machine!
I like the TIG stuff too. I did a bunch of TIG in welding class. But it's pretty slow way to weld. And it takes a LOT of practice to be good at it. Also the fitment of your joints needs to be spot on. To much of a gap and you can easily burn thru. I would love to have a TIG machine but for me a wire feed is best at this time.
I agree with St. Chevrolet with taking a class on welding. It is amazing how fast you pick things up when in class. There a lots of welding techniques that can be learned in class where as learning on your own will take much longer.
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I am using a Lincoln 135 using .035 flux core. It's my buddies machine on perma loan. He has a bottle for it. I used it once with the bottle but it really cools the weld down. So I just use the flux. I am surprise with as small of a machine how much I am able to do with it. I have run it on 3/16 with success. The disadvantages of flux is the mess it makes. There is a ton of spatter. There are some sprays avail. to help with the spatter clean up.
I agree with St. Chevrolet with taking a class on welding. It is amazing how fast you pick things up when in class. There a lots of welding techniques that can be learned in class where as learning on your own will take much longer.
I was thinking since most wire fed machines come with flux, I'd use that for practice to get back what little I remember. ::) :doggy:
I think it really depends on your personality. Some people can pick it up very easily with little instruction. Others need a helping hand. ODTJ's welds are pretty impressive if he's only been at it for 3 weeks. Same goes for sharpxmen with his cheapo TIG. Especially on the TIG.
There used to be a good book on welding. I forget the name of it. Anyone remember?
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A few good pointers and a lot of practice goes a long way.
I run the same patterns with the flux as I did with gas. Gas is easier to learn on since the flux is real dirty! It smokes a lot more and the burning flux can make the puddle hard to see if you don't know what your looking at.
The only book I have is on TIG welding. There is a lot of on line books and info on welding, all types of welding.
We have not mentioned welding hoods. I started out with the old school flip and tip. When all thru welding class with it. Then when I got my Ready welder I bought a auto darkening hood made by Jackson. The Ready Welder has a hot tip. So if you touch the tip to your grounded material it will arc! So when I was nodding my head to get the hood down it sometimes would touch the grounded material and arc. Not fun. So the auto darkening one is much better in that respect. Also speeds things up when doing lots of spot welds.
Don't be foolish and tack weld things without your hood on and down. There is lots of TV shows that show the welder just closing his eyes to tack stuff. It's just plain stupid!
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:popcorn: Awesome advice! Thanks!
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we have a Hobart Handler 140 115v, good little mig, use it with shielding gas.. only regret is that its not 230V. the auto dimming hoods are definitely nice if you can afford it when starting out.
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We have not mentioned welding hoods. I started out with the old school flip and tip. When all thru welding class with it. Then when I got my Ready welder I bought a auto darkening hood made by Jackson. The Ready Welder has a hot tip. So if you touch the tip to your grounded material it will arc! So when I was nodding my head to get the hood down it sometimes would touch the grounded material and arc. Not fun. So the auto darkening one is much better in that respect. Also speeds things up when doing lots of spot welds.
Don't be foolish and tack weld things without your hood on and down. There is lots of TV shows that show the welder just closing his eyes to tack stuff. It's just plain stupid!
What no, 3 pairs of sunglasses? :drink:
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we have a Hobart Handler 140 115v, good little mig, use it with shielding gas.. only regret is that its not 230V. the auto dimming hoods are definitely nice if you can afford it when starting out.
I hear that from a lot from my friends who did it the hard way. 230v is what I'm looking for.
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I hear that a lot from my friends who did it the hard way. 230v is what I'm looking for.
I guess it all depends on what your welding. If a lot of thicker stuff is what you are going to be doing then a 220V is what you need. Most of the stuff on a Jeep project is going to be 3/16 or less. Running flux on a GOOD 110V machine should handle this. I like the ability to throw the welder in the Jeep and take to other peoples houses to do repair work, or whatever. I have repaired a number of fences/gates for people.
But I must admit a Miller/Lincoln 185 machine would be nice for my needs.
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I guess it all depends on what your welding. If a lot of thicker stuff is what you are going to be doing then a 220V is what you need. Most of the stuff on a Jeep project is going to be 3/16 or less. Running flux on a GOOD 110V machine should handle this. I like the ability to throw the welder in the Jeep and take to other peoples houses to do repair work, or whatever. I have repaired a number of fences/gates for people.
But I must admit a Miller/Lincoln 185 machine would be nice for my needs.
How about stuff like axles? I'm sure most of the 230v people are talking about using gas and not flux.
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we have a Hobart Handler 140 115v, good little mig, use it with shielding gas.. only regret is that its not 230V. the auto dimming hoods are definitely nice if you can afford it when starting out.
$38 shipped off ebay, works ok but is no queen (does the job but compared to the Miller one the guy that does my aluminum welding is quite a difference). I bought one with the adjustments on the sides, makes it easier not to take it off if the light reflects into the visor and it darkens before you start welding.
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How about stuff like axles? I'm sure most of the 230v people are talking about using gas and not flux.
Axle brackets/shock mounts etc. can be done with a 110V machine using flux. WITH a good machine like the 135-140 Lincoln-Miller-Hobart. The machines that are sold at your local big box hardware store and not the same as the ones bought thru a welding shop. The ones at the welding store costs more...there are reasons for this.
The 230V crowd for the most part uses gas. The have enough grunt with a big machine to be able to get nice hot welds. No real reason not to run gas unless your outside doing most of your welding. The 110V machines on gas don't have the power to burn thicker material. Unless your are doing thin sheet metal type/body work. Personally I would weld anything thicker than 1/8 on a 110V machine on gas. Just my opinion. YMMV.
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$38 shipped off ebay, works ok but is no queen (does the job but compared to the Miller one the guy that does my aluminum welding is quite a difference). I bought one with the adjustments on the sides, makes it easier not to take it off if the light reflects into the visor and it darkens before you start welding.
Personally I say don't go cheap on a hood.(you only have 2 eyes and replacements are not avail) Ya you can spend some serious money on a hood. If you make a living welding the high class hoods is what I would be using. My Jackson is more of a entry level hood for a auto darkening one IIRC it was about $125 from my local welding store. I am sure they are cheaper online. Mine is a solar powered one. It's great if you weld everyday. But if you don't (raises hand) like me the battery dies. You need to stick it in the sunshine for 10-15 minutes prior to welding or you get flashed. It's worse if weeks and weeks go by since you last welded. Plus it has no shade adjustments. My next hood will run on batteries, and have adjustments.
There is nothing wrong with the old school flip and tips. Get a gold #13 lens and you should be good to go! If you only weld now and again this is a good setup IMO.
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This concurs with what I've been told.
Hobart is not part of Miller and has been for a while now. It's their value-line. IIRC, the differences come down to some little things like metal gears, and it has more adjustments.
Stick/Arc welder would also be a good choice as well. Although, the welds aren't as nice but they are as strong.
Actually both Miller Electric and Hobart Brothers are subsidiaries of the Illinois Tool Co.
As far as stick/arc the welds can be just as nice it depends on the user and electrodes used and Stick,Mig,Tig are all arc welding processes. Stick is a lot harder to master than Mig for most people, but is the best way to learn welding properly. Like I said before if you plan to weld on your vehicle, take a good welding course to learn how to weld properly in all positions -horizontal, vertical, overhead, with whatever process you plan to use.
I am a certified welder and I'm just trying to point you in the right direction, if you would like to see some of the things I've built go here http://www.peerless.ca/products/multiaxle/index.php
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As far as stick/arc the welds can be just as nice it depends on the user and electrodes used and Stick,Mig,Tig are all arc welding processes.
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I've seen some stick welds done that looked much better than what you can achieve with a mig (done by a pro welder that was doing that 8 hrs/day).
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The first bumper that I made for the rear of the Jeep was welded by a buddy on mine with a stick welder. He learned in a welding class. I was amazed how they looked. Plus the cuts he could make with a gas axe (oxy torch) was amazing!
Arc welding has it's advantages. Lots of rod choices,can be done with batteries on the trail, very strong welds. Like Bounty said with the nickel rods you can do cast.
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I am in the market for a new welder.
I have my eyes set on either a Miller 180 with autoset $800.00 (Ebay) or the Lincoln 180 $639.00 (on sale at Lowes usually $699.00.)
Is there really a difference between to two other than price?
Thanks for your input.
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I am in the market for a new welder.
I have my eyes set on either a Miller 180 with autoset $800.00 (Ebay) or the Lincoln 180 $639.00 (on sale at Lowes usually $699.00.)
Is there really a difference between to two other than price?
Thanks for your input.
http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/comparisons/millermatic_180.html
This compares the 2 on the same page as well as other welders. On gas the Miller will do 5/16 single pass VS the Lincoln 3/16. Plus I like the infinte settings of the miller VS the 5 presets of the Lincoln.
But is the Miller worth the extra money. Hard to say. I like the fact you can buy the Lincoln consumeables at most stores such as Lowes, HD,Walmart.
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http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/comparisons/millermatic_180.html
This compares the 2 on the same page as well as other welders. On gas the Miller will do 5/16 single pass VS the Lincoln 3/16. Plus I like the infinte settings of the miller VS the 5 presets of the Lincoln.
But is the Miller worth the extra money. Hard to say. I like the fact you can buy the Lincoln consumeables at most stores such as Lowes, HD,Walmart.
All of my friends run Millers either for work or play. I do like the infinite settings. I had my rear axle welded up on a Miller. The front axle was all stick. I don't remember what brand welder it was. Some misc. parts were also done on a Miller. Generally they will cost around $100-150 more but seem to be worth it.
On another note, I've seen some Lincolns branded as Home Depot with the HD on the end of the model number. Then there are all of the different Weldpak's as well. Are the weldpaks just a package deal with the 140/180 welders? IIRC, they are called Weldpak 100 or something.
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I my welding class 95% of the MIG welders were Miller. Not sure why.
I thought the weldpak is a budget version for the hardware store market and are not the same as the other models in the same rating.
The Smartstart on the Miller is cool! Very nice for easy set ups and what not. :thumbsup:
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I my welding class 95% of the MIG welders were Miller. Not sure why.
I thought the weldpak is a budget version for the hardware store market and are not the same as the other models in the same rating.
The Smartstart on the Miller is cool! Very nice for easy set ups and what not. :thumbsup:
That's what I thought but wasn't completely sure.
The Millers seem to be the ones to get if you can afford them. I've seen the 140 on ebay for $664 and the 180 for $799.
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That's what I thought but wasn't completely sure.
The Millers seem to be the ones to get if you can afford them. I've seen the 140 on ebay for $664 and the 180 for $799.
You do enough stuff yourself VS buying stuff and it pays for itself in a hurry! I always told myself if I bought a welder it would be a Miller. Some say just pick a color and buy that one. I guess it depends on how much your gonna use it and what you are using it for.
**NOTE** I was gonna start a thread like this this morning, you beat me to it! :finger:
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You do enough stuff yourself VS buying stuff and it pays for itself in a hurry! I always told myself if I bought a welder it would be a Miller. Some say just pick a color and buy that one. I guess it depends on how much your gonna use it and what you are using it for.
**NOTE** I was gonna start a thread like this this morning, you beat me to it! :finger:
There are hundreds of things I could do if I had a welder. I'd be a pro with all the jobs I have around the house and Jeep. Either that or I'd be a pro at crappy welds. One of the two. :drink:
Seems pretty logical to have a welder thread since everyone either wants one or use one.
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There are hundreds of things I could do if I had a welder. I'd be a pro with all the jobs I have around the house and Jeep. Either that or I'd be a pro at crappy welds. One of the two. :drink:
Seems pretty logical to have a welder thread since everyone either wants one or use one.
I currently borrowing my buddys 240v welder for my frame repair and I don't want to give it back :(
love having it
I think of all the other stuff I could do with it witch I might do some of before he gets it backs 8)
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3 car batteries, some cables, a ground clamp and a stinger and you will be making welds. That is about all it takes and some welding skill. Oh yeah some 7018 1/8 welding rods help too. That or buy a mig glue gun and go have fun
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Hobart has a new portable welder that runs off of its own battery and is comparable to the 180 welders. It takes about a 1/2 hour to charge and will weld at max power for two minutes. It can then be ran at home while plugged in. The only problem is it retails for twice as much (approximately $1,800.00). Check it out on their website, pretty cool deal, just expensive.
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Hobart has a new portable welder that runs off of its own battery and is comparable to the 180 welders. It takes about a 1/2 hour to charge and will weld at max power for two minutes. It can then be ran at home while plugged in. The only problem is it retails for twice as much (approximately $1,800.00). Check it out on their website, pretty cool deal, just expensive.
http://www.youtube.com/v/E8MtQSr1IcU&hl=en_US
I bought one of these used of ebay years ago. Around $400 IIRC. New they are somewhere between $450-500 new. As I said earlier it was my only welder for years. I bought a couple group 24 batteries for cheap. $30 for both, they were some deep cycle batteries from a motor home. Then I bought a couple of chargers and went to town! I love the fact it's small and comes in a suitcase for easy portability.
Sadly after getting the Lincoln I did not keep the batteries properly charged and it killed them, they won't take a charge. I need to get some new ones and a couple trickle chargers to keep them topped.
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Here is one on ebay for $300 plus $25 ship. No bids so far ends in a day.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Ready-Welder-II-10000ADP_W0QQitemZ120555718794QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Welders?hash=item1c11ae488a
It's this model http://readywelder.com/10000adp.php It comes with the stuff needed to hook up to another welder so you don't need to run off batteries or want to burn Al. or stainless. All Ready welders come fitted to run a bottle of gas.
When I bought mine the case was cracked and the wire would not feed. It was a older unit way passed any warranty. I called RW and told them what was going on they said to send it them and they will see what's wrong. They replaced the unit with a much newer design for FREE knowing full well that the warranty was expired! :doggy:
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http://www.youtube.com/v/E8MtQSr1IcU&hl=en_US
I bought one of these used of ebay years ago. Around $400 IIRC. New they are somewhere between $450-500 new. As I said earlier it was my only welder for years. I bought a couple group 24 batteries for cheap. $30 for both, they were some deep cycle batteries from a motor home. Then I bought a couple of chargers and went to town! I love the fact it's small and comes in a suitcase for easy portability.
Sadly after getting the Lincoln I did not keep the batteries properly charged and it killed them, they won't take a charge. I need to get some new ones and a couple trickle chargers to keep them topped.
that's a good thing to have on the trail as an alternative to the on-board welder.
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Hobart has a new portable welder that runs off of its own battery and is comparable to the 180 welders. It takes about a 1/2 hour to charge and will weld at max power for two minutes. It can then be ran at home while plugged in. The only problem is it retails for twice as much (approximately $1,800.00). Check it out on their website, pretty cool deal, just expensive.
It's cool, but is no way near the power of a 230VAC welder. It runs on 120VAC when plugged in.
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I bought one of these used of ebay years ago. Around $400 IIRC. New they are somewhere between $450-500 new. As I said earlier it was my only welder for years. I bought a couple group 24 batteries for cheap. $30 for both, they were some deep cycle batteries from a motor home. Then I bought a couple of chargers and went to town! I love the fact it's small and comes in a suitcase for easy portability.
Sadly after getting the Lincoln I did not keep the batteries properly charged and it killed them, they won't take a charge. I need to get some new ones and a couple trickle chargers to keep them topped.
They sell an AC unit for the welder now, IIRC.
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What about the mig welder version where the voltage input is determined by the plug on the end of the power cord. The welder 'changes' to adapt to the 120v or the 230v input for its output.
It will take more thinking on the end user to configure the settings, but you can start off with the 120v for couple of years in a standard home garage, then with upgrade power in the better workspace, you can get better output.
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What about the mig welder version where the voltage input is determined by the plug on the end of the power cord. The welder 'changes' to adapt to the 120v or the 230v input for its output.
It will take more thinking on the end user to configure the settings, but you can start off with the 120v for couple of years in a standard home garage, then with upgrade power in the better workspace, you can get better output.
I think Miller makes a unit like that. A plasma cutter too. ( I think)
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Miller's duel voltage unit model 211, and others with higher output for more $. I read that their old model 250 would do the same thing with only slightly more set up.
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My cutmaster 38 plasma cutter is dual voltage - completely useless running it on 120VAC.
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Like Old Jeep says there is a big difference between 110V operation and 230V operation.
Here's the specs for the Millermatic 211: 115Vac, Amp. Range 30 - 140, Rated Output 90A@20V@ 20% Duty Cycle
230Vac, Amp. Range 30 - 210, Rated Output 150A@23.5V@30% Duty Cycle
If you are looking for portability the Miller PassPort Plus is a really nice unit, even comes with a gas cylinder.
115Vac, Amp. Range 30 - 140, Rated Output 110A@19.5V@20% Duty Cycle
230Vac, Amp Range 30 - 180, Rated Output 150A@21.5V@20% Duty Cycle
Both welders can do: mild steel Min. 24ga. to Max. 3/8"
alum. Min. 18ga. to Max. 1/4"
Aluminum should be done with the optional spoolgun.
Any welder or plasma cutter that is dual voltage should always be run on a dedicated circuit with a 20A breaker.
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all the homes up here (Lower Mainland BC, Canada) have dual voltage for stoves and washer/dryer as far as I know - not sure in the US. If you only have 1 phase 120v the selection for serious plasma or welders is limited mostly b/c of the high current required.
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http://www.4wdandsportutility.com/tech/1005_4wd_trail_tools_product_guide/index.html
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OK, I found the difference between the store brand Lincoln's and the regular ones.
The Weldpak's use tap controls rather then continuous controls. I didn't realize Lincoln's had continuous controls.
This is interesting as well.
http://content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/products/literature/e7242.pdf
Although, there is no auto-set but Lincoln's are usually cheaper.
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No takers? I think I've narrowed down my choices to the Millermatic 180 and the Lincoln 180C.
Been thinking that I may forgo the corners and bumpers for a while longer to buy a welder and gear.
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I have a SP175 Lincoln, it was the entry level commercial unit when I bought it. It has a tap for voltage and linear for wire speed.
Its been an awsome unit. Owned it for 15 years...
Dave
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They are both good welders, I don't think you can go wrong no matter which one you pick.
If you go to Miller Welds you can check out their comparison to the Lincoln 180C & T, Thermal Arc 180, and Hobart 187.
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They are both good welders, I don't think you can go wrong no matter which one you pick.
If you go to Miller Welds you can check out their comparison to the Lincoln 180C & T, Thermal Arc 180, and Hobart 187.
Ok, went to the site: http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/comparisons/millermatic_180.html
Looks like Miller upped their specs to burn 5/16". The feature I really like though is the Auto-Set. Also nice that Miller decided to join us in the 2000's by including a DVD and not a VHS tape as well.
Although, I do like how I can pick up Lincoln parts just about anywhere. Sears, Wal-Mart, Home Depot, etc.
Is there anything to look out for? Features/internals/designs that are better then the other?
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Ok, went to the site: http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/comparisons/millermatic_180.html
Looks like Miller upped their specs to burn 5/16". The feature I really like though is the Auto-Set. Also nice that Miller decided to join us in the 2000's by including a DVD and not a VHS tape as well.
Although, I do like how I can pick up Lincoln parts just about anywhere. Sears, Wal-Mart, Home Depot, etc.
Is there anything to look out for? Features/internals/designs that are better then the other?
u
I must admit the hardest thing to learn was the set up IMO. Having the machine do it for you is a cool thing. In class we did not get a chart on the inside panel to tell you what to set the heat and wire speed to. It was trail and error. But it was a great way to learn.
It's hard to say which would have better internals. It would depend on who's sales pitch you believed more. A while back I asked the local shop which he would choose between the 2 brands and he said Lincoln. Mostly for the ease of finding consumables cheaply.
I was trying to choose between those 2 welders yesterday. Both are nice. The Miller does have a bit of a edge I think with the extra capacity and the autoset. But it comes at a cost. For you it would make the most since to get the Miller. It would be a faster learning curve and you said you know others with the same brand.
There are lots of good deals on the net. But I think buying one local would be the way to go in case there is ever any repairs needed. Buy the consumables on line to save money. That's my 2 cents.
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I was trying to choose between those 2 welders yesterday. Both are nice. The Miller does have a bit of a edge I think with the extra capacity and the autoset. But it comes at a cost. For you it would make the most since to get the Miller. It would be a faster learning curve and you said you know others with the same brand.
There are lots of good deals on the net. But I think buying one local would be the way to go in case there is ever any repairs needed. Buy the consumables on line to save money. That's my 2 cents.
I think I'll probably go with the Miller as most of my friends all prefer the Millers to the Lincoln's. I'll just have to buy some flux core and some extra tips separately to play around with. I'll have to save up a bit more though.
The price difference is only $30.
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Sounds like a good plan.
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Ok, went to the site: http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/comparisons/millermatic_180.html
Looks like Miller upped their specs to burn 5/16". The feature I really like though is the Auto-Set. Also nice that Miller decided to join us in the 2000's by including a DVD and not a VHS tape as well.
Although, I do like how I can pick up Lincoln parts just about anywhere. Sears, Wal-Mart, Home Depot, etc.
Is there anything to look out for? Features/internals/designs that are better then the other?
Jeffy having not used the particular model of welders you are looking at, I checked with a friend who manages a Praxair welding supply outlet which sells both makes . Here is what he had to say:
Each of them has its advantages and disadvantages over the other but they are minor. However the Miller Auto-Set will make a world of difference for someone just starting out with little or no experience. I think you will find with the Miller with solid wire and a 75% Argon/25% carbon dioxide gas you will have no problem welding 5/16 steel in one pass. If you need to do thicker plate in one pass then you will need to go flux core.
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Jeffy having not used the particular model of welders you are looking at, I checked with a friend who manages a Praxair welding supply outlet which sells both makes . Here is what he had to say:
Each of them has its advantages and disadvantages over the other but they are minor. However the Miller Auto-Set will make a world of difference for someone just starting out with little or no experience. I think you will find with the Miller with solid wire and a 75% Argon/25% carbon dioxide gas you will have no problem welding 5/16 steel in one pass. If you need to do thicker plate in one pass then you will need to go flux core.
Thanks for the info! That's very helpful. So, I'll go with the Miller.
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Thanks for the info! That's very helpful. So, I'll go with the Miller.
Flux is cheaper to start out on VS gas but it might be a bit tougher to learn. It's a bit more labor to get rid of the flux and welding berries. I use a wire wheel on a 3/8 drill. I use various sizes of wheels depending on what needs to be cleaned off. Also a chipping hammer or chisel or old screwdriver come in real handy.
The gas is real nice since there is not much clean up to see what kind of beads your laying down. Plus I think it's easier to see the puddle.
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No one has made this suggestion so I will throw it out there.
I recommend all beginners start with an DC arc welder. Look for an old 230V Dialarc 250(miller) or IdealArc 250. These machines are indestructible, and weld very well, and are available used for cheaper prices than many AC only buzz boxes. There is nothing these brute cant do except maybe thin body panels. Thats what an oxy/fuel torch is good for, the thin stuff and cutting metal. A good man running a decent torch and deliver quality cuts near that of a plasma, and an oxy/fuel set up can weld thin steel, aluminum, cast iron, stainless steel, and cast aluminum with the proper consumables
DC 7018 is absolutely beautiful to weld with and in 10 hours of concentrated practice you can have it down pretty well if you have a decent instructor.
Why I don't recommend Mig. Its been said that mig is the easiest to learn and the hardest to master. The reason is that you have a hard time seeing the puddle, and most beginners don't know what they are looking at to begin with. I have seen to many mig welds that look good in appearance visually fail because they were cold or contaminated. When I was getting my welders certifications I was welding with a industrial Mig machine and the welds were going in hot and looked gorgeous, but keep failing in the bend test do to porosity. Tried again with the instructor looking over my shoulder, said I did a perfect job, failed again. Instructor tried, it failed as well. Ended up being some slight contamination in the cable liner which when replaced fixed the problem, but the point is that even a professional welding instructor was getting visually appealing welds that were not up to certification. Now take a beginner and he doesn't even know what he is looking at.
With arc welding, if the weld looks good 99 percent of the time it is. Crappy weld appear crappy, there is no getting around it.
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Since my lincoln welder just took a dump I bought the miller 180 and love it very nice welder got to love the autoset, you can weld 0.035 wire with it and it can run a spool gun for aluminum welding. Darn thing was not cheap but they had a supposed sale on them so all in all I am a happy camper with my new glue gun
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Since my lincoln welder just took a dump I bought the miller 180 and love it very nice welder got to love the autoset, you can weld 0.035 wire with it and it can run a spool gun for aluminum welding. Darn thing was not cheap but they had a supposed sale on them so all in all I am a happy camper with my new glue gun
How much did you pay? I've seen them for $788 shipped.
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about the same, then added extra tips and a large spool of 0.030 wire. It comes with the regulator etc. all you need is to buy a welding gas bottle. As far as I am concerned it's a biatchin little welder, works very well
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No one has made this suggestion so I will throw it out there.
I recommend all beginners start with an DC arc welder. Look for an old 230V Dialarc 250(miller) or IdealArc 250. These machines are indestructible, and weld very well, and are available used for cheaper prices than many AC only buzz boxes. There is nothing these brute cant do except maybe thin body panels. Thats what an oxy/fuel torch is good for, the thin stuff and cutting metal. A good man running a decent torch and deliver quality cuts near that of a plasma, and an oxy/fuel set up can weld thin steel, aluminum, cast iron, stainless steel, and cast aluminum with the proper consumables
DC 7018 is absolutely beautiful to weld with and in 10 hours of concentrated practice you can have it down pretty well if you have a decent instructor.
Why I don't recommend Mig. Its been said that mig is the easiest to learn and the hardest to master. The reason is that you have a hard time seeing the puddle, and most beginners don't know what they are looking at to begin with. I have seen to many mig welds that look good in appearance visually fail because they were cold or contaminated. When I was getting my welders certifications I was welding with a industrial Mig machine and the welds were going in hot and looked gorgeous, but keep failing in the bend test do to porosity. Tried again with the instructor looking over my shoulder, said I did a perfect job, failed again. Instructor tried, it failed as well. Ended up being some slight contamination in the cable liner which when replaced fixed the problem, but the point is that even a professional welding instructor was getting visually appealing welds that were not up to certification. Now take a beginner and he doesn't even know what he is looking at.
With arc welding, if the weld looks good 99 percent of the time it is. Crappy weld appear crappy, there is no getting around it.
would a dc arc welder do the job for fabricating my own roll cage, soa conversion and making my own beadlocks?
want to get a welder and so far those are things i'll wanna do myself in a build i'm planning
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would a dc arc welder do the job for fabricating my own roll cage, soa conversion and making my own beadlocks?
want to get a welder and so far those are things i'll wanna do myself in a build i'm planning
You can do those projects with a stick welder. Just like any other type of welding process make sure you get a fair amount of practice in before starting a project, if ARC welding is new to you. ARC welding produces some very strong welds! It's just a slower process than MIG/flux core. Just make sure it's a big enough machine to give you the amps needed to get good penitration.
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From what I understand, stick welding is cheaper to get into then MIG or TIG. The welds aren't as nice as MIG/TIG and need clean-up but are strong. My D30 was welded with a arc.
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When referring to ARC welding state the process, ARC welding is not just Stick- SMAW shielded metal arc welding, MIG- GMAW gas metal arc welding, Flux Core- FCAW flux core arc welding, TIG- GTAW gas tungsten arc welding are all ARC welding processes.
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Acr welding is a good option, but takes more skill, is a lot harder to use on 0.120 wall tubing for a roll cage. I would use a good arc welder for stuf like welding material 1/4" and up and on cast iron. Welding sheetmetal and thin tubing with an arc welder can be done but is a major pain and takes a lot of skill. If you intend to weld a cage, get a mig welder that is rated for up to 1/4 material or better preferably one that will run 0.030 wire makes cage welding a lot more fun
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First, the most important part of any welding system is the man controlling it. There has been an amazing amount of stuff welded together with an oxy/fuel torch or even carbon arc torches.
The only thing I wouldn't recommend a stick welder for is sheet metal. .120 roll bar is fine with an stick welder, I do that .125(1/16") all the time with no issues, the key is tight fitting. I don't use it on .065 chromemoly tubing, that I use my oxy/fuel torch or my TIG welder, normally the torch if its steel and the TIG if aluminum or stainless. I really recommend a DC stick welder as they are very smooth and striking the arc is much easier for a beginner. With some practice and some 7018 DC you will come very close to the appearance of Mig welding in smoothness.
A used Dialarc or Idealarc machine will do any thickness steel without issue for a price cheaper much cheaper than any decent MIG machine.
A MIG machine is the easiest to learn and the hardest to master. You can have wonderfull looking welds with it but they are little better than glue as they have no penetration if done incorrectly. I will not trust my life in a vehicle welded together by a beginner welder with mig as you don't know. I will with an stick welded cage as just looking at them you can tell if they penetrated or not.
I think evey shop needs an good smith or victor midgrade oxy/fuel torch. You can cut steel, weld any metal(with proper fluxes) in thin sections, braze, and strink/stretch body panels with ease. Welding steel with good fitting joints is obtainable with some practice up to .25". A good stick welder takes care of the heavy stuff, ie 1/16 and up.
No matter if you pick a MIG set up or A stick set up, get a 180+ amp machine, a 250 can handle any thickness with multiple passes. This means 230volts. Any thing less than 180 does not have the heat to weld .125 thickness metal and up. The MIG manufactures "welds up to ..." should be halved. A 110volt machine is good only for sheet metal. I know that some will disagree but I have fixed to many broken welds made with machines of this size.
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Sorry guys I broke down today and made the purchase. Miller 180 with autoset... The shop I bought it from hooked it up and let me take it for a test weld.... Holy smokes, my first time welding and this welder made it rrreal easy. The weld turned out better than average. I need to wire my outlet and weld on a few more scraps to really get it down and then I think I will be ready for some real welding... Miller 180, definately the way to go...
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Sorry guys I broke down today and made the purchase. Miller 180 with autoset... The shop I bought it from hooked it up and let me take it for a test weld.... Holy smokes, my first time welding and this welder made it rrreal easy. The weld turned out better than average. I need to wire my outlet and weld on a few more scraps to really get it down and then I think I will be ready for some real welding... Miller 180, definately the way to go...
Damn, everyone's buying a Miller 180 but me! :lol: I've got to wait a bit but I'll be buying one as well.
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http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/6/Tools/WeldingSoldering/Welders/PRD~0588041P/Lincoln%252BElectric%252BMIG-Pak%2525AE%252B180%252BWire%252BFeed%252BWelder.jsp?locale=en (http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/6/Tools/WeldingSoldering/Welders/PRD~0588041P/Lincoln%252BElectric%252BMIG-Pak%2525AE%252B180%252BWire%252BFeed%252BWelder.jsp?locale=en)
Lincoln Electric MIG-PakŪ 180 Wire Feed Welder
this a decent welder?
I can get one locally here for 599cad. on sale
what do you think?
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http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/6/Tools/WeldingSoldering/Welders/PRD~0588041P/Lincoln%252BElectric%252BMIG-Pak%2525AE%252B180%252BWire%252BFeed%252BWelder.jsp?locale=en (http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/6/Tools/WeldingSoldering/Welders/PRD~0588041P/Lincoln%252BElectric%252BMIG-Pak%2525AE%252B180%252BWire%252BFeed%252BWelder.jsp?locale=en)
Lincoln Electric MIG-PakŪ 180 Wire Feed Welder
this a decent welder?
I can get one locally here for 599cad. on sale
what do you think?
No one has any input on this?
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Yeah,
Another reason I went with a Miller 180 with autoset is because Miller has one version of the 180.
I found in other forums that Lincoln makes several versions of their 180. They have a 180 version you see at Lowe's, another 180 version for light industrial, etc... You would not know the difference just looking at them. That is all I can recall on that matter. Keep searching, you will find more on the Lincoln's. I have not been disappointed with my Miller at all. It is rreaal easy to use and makes my welds look like I almost know what I am doing. Miller, money well spent.
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No one has any input on this?
That looks like a SP-180. The better welders don't come with cheap masks and more settings.
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That looks like a SP-180. The better welders don't come with cheap masks and more settings.
is it any good?
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Preset setting are not as good as indefinite control. The mask is laughable and if you want to do any real welding you'll want a flip-up helmet so you don't have to hold it. The internals are made a bit cheaper as well.
I also said I think it's a SP-180. Lincoln doesn't seem to have the part number that they are using. Maybe it's an older model. The ones with the cheap makes are the lowest models they sell and are usually sold in big box stores. ie. not as good as the Power-MIG models.
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honestly I don't care about the mask more the welder so if it's not worth it I will just hold off
I will go in to the store and check it out and take pic's or get a model number of it and see what it actually is
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honestly I don't care about the mask more the welder so if it's not worth it I will just hold off
I will go in to the store and check it out and take pic's or get a model number of it and see what it actually is
The cheap mask just tells you it's one of their low end kits as the regular line does not come with them. You can go on Lincoln's site and compare the features yourself.
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The cheap mask just tells you it's one of their low end kits as the regular line does not come with them. You can go on Lincoln's site and compare the features yourself.
I'm going to go to the store and see if I can get the lincoln part number of it. they have there own stock number for everything they sell.
but your probably right about it being the sp-180. If it is that one is it worth the buy?
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i initially bought a Mastercraft MIG/flux (does both) 100amp, can weld ok but anything serious is too small.
Found a brand new chinese made AC/DC TIG/stick Riland 200amp with foot pedal on ebay "best offer" with free shipping, i threw an offer on there not expecting to be accepted but the seller took it - had pre flow, post flow and downslope adjustments, works surprisingly well considering all the bad things i read about the chinese welders. The only thing i don't like is that you're limited to 60Hz for AC, tried some aluminum welding but doesn't look pretty and i'm sure it's mostly my fault. Can weld pretty much anything as far as thickness goes, i used it with good results on mild steel and stainless steel so far.
i tried again yesterday to weld aluminum and turned out much better than the first time - not showroom quality but for certain jobs should be good enough
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Misc/alu_welds.jpg)
nowhere near as good as the ones my friend puts out with his Miller but i'm sure my hand and foot also have something to do with it too
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When I was in welding class, it took me forever to get stacked coin looking beads on Alum. You need to make sure it's brushed off real good where your gonna weld. Oxidation will make it hard to get nice beads. IMO If you can weld alum. with TIG then you can weld just about anything. The SS and mild steel, and chromo are nothing to weld after learning on alum.
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When I was in welding class, it took me forever to get stacked coin looking beads on Alum. You need to make sure it's brushed off real good where your gonna weld. Oxidation will make it hard to get nice beads. IMO If you can weld alum. with TIG then you can weld just about anything. The SS and mild steel, and chromo are nothing to weld after learning on alum.
yeah, for the weld on the left i had the parts chamfered and cleaned up well, the one on the right i just threw on a piece that was not cleaned at all, you can see some difference in quality there. the first welds i tried with alu (should've taken pics) back in January when i got the welder were horrendous, more like molted metal than anything - what i notices this time is that once i start the weld going i can lower the amps with the pedal quite a bit and that is enough to keep the puddle forming on the seam - i have trouble adding filler as it melts before i get the rod close enough to the puddle - need to practice more but i am happy that i can at least join 2 parts together without any holes :)
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yeah, for the weld on the left i had the parts chamfered and cleaned up well, the one on the right i just threw on a piece that was not cleaned at all, you can see some difference in quality there. the first welds i tried with alu (should've taken pics) back in January when i got the welder were horrendous, more like molted metal than anything - what i notices this time is that once i start the weld going i can lower the amps with the pedal quite a bit and that is enough to keep the puddle forming on the seam - i have trouble adding filler as it melts before i get the rod close enough to the puddle - need to practice more but i am happy that i can at least join 2 parts together without any holes :)
I am/was a expert in putting holes in alum. part of the problem is the oxidation melts at a higher temp than the alum. By the time you burn thru the oxidation the heat is to hot for the alum. and bam instant hole. Cleaning with a wire brush helps a ton. (metric ton in your case) :eek:
With alum. you can back off the pedal as you get your bead going. Alum absorbs the heat and it spreads out throughout the entire piece so as you get closer to finishing the bead you don't need the heat coming from the peddle since it's so hot from running the bead. While stainless is the other way around. You can weld on it and if it's a large enough piece you can grab it away from the weld without it being very hot.
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The cheap mask just tells you it's one of their low end kits as the regular line does not come with them. You can go on Lincoln's site and compare the features yourself.
I picked it up anyway Jeffy. I couldn't afford to go to the other one. and I found out that the one I used for my frame that I borrowed off my buddy is the same one and it worked great and he has had it a few years now. should work good for me for my projects
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I am/was a expert in putting holes in alum. part of the problem is the oxidation melts at a higher temp than the alum. By the time you burn thru the oxidation the heat is to hot for the alum. and bam instant hole. Cleaning with a wire brush helps a ton. (metric ton in your case) :eek:
With alum. you can back off the pedal as you get your bead going. Alum absorbs the heat and it spreads out throughout the entire piece so as you get closer to finishing the bead you don't need the heat coming from the peddle since it's so hot from running the bead. While stainless is the other way around. You can weld on it and if it's a large enough piece you can grab it away from the weld without it being very hot.
it's not perfect but i'm getting better (at least i think i am)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Misc/Polaris_Foot_Pegs/Right_FPeg_weld1.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Misc/Polaris_Foot_Pegs/Right_FPeg_weld2.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Misc/Polaris_Foot_Pegs/Right_FPeg_2.jpg)
i'll post some closeups once i clean the welds and give it a polish
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Sorry guys I broke down today and made the purchase. Miller 180 with autoset... The shop I bought it from hooked it up and let me take it for a test weld.... Holy smokes, my first time welding and this welder made it rrreal easy. The weld turned out better than average. I need to wire my outlet and weld on a few more scraps to really get it down and then I think I will be ready for some real welding... Miller 180, definately the way to go...
Alright, wiring up the welder today. I called Miller and the tech told me to use a single pole 30 amp breaker, 10/2 wire, and the 230 volt outlet. Pretty straight forward. Nothing funner than running wire through a wall into the ceiling and then back down the wall..... SHOOT ME!
:brick:
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Alright, wiring up the welder today. I called Miller and the tech told me to use a single pole 30 amp breaker, 10/2 wire, and the 230 volt outlet. Pretty straight forward. Nothing funner than running wire through a wall into the ceiling and then back down the wall..... SHOOT ME!
:brick:
are you in the continental US? if yes then for 208v you need a double breaker, one for each phase, single ones are for 120v and most of households have 2 phase 120v power, between the phases you get 208v (used for stoves, washer/dryer)
EDiT: unless your welder works at 120v also and that's what you are wiring it for, I could have misunderstood.
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are you in the continental US? if yes then for 208v you need a double breaker, one for each phase, single ones are for 120v and most of households have 2 phase 120v power, between the phases you get 208v (used for stoves, washer/dryer)
EDiT: unless your welder works at 120v also and that's what you are wiring it for, I could have misunderstood.
did some reading about this and i don't want to misinform - i seen it mentioned that some residential power is 120/240 with 180 deg between the 2 phases (so not 120/208 which is 120 deg between phases) - you still need a double breaker though on both active (hot) phases.
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it's not perfect but i'm getting better (at least i think i am)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Misc/Polaris_Foot_Pegs/Right_FPeg_weld1.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Misc/Polaris_Foot_Pegs/Right_FPeg_weld2.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Misc/Polaris_Foot_Pegs/Right_FPeg_2.jpg)
i'll post some closeups once i clean the welds and give it a polish
:thumbsup: That's better than I can do right now.
What is that going on?
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did some reading about this and i don't want to misinform - i seen it mentioned that some residential power is 120/240 with 180 deg between the 2 phases (so not 120/208 which is 120 deg between phases) - you still need a double breaker though on both active (hot) phases.
That's not what the Tech at Miller said. I already ran the 10/2 wire.... Anyone else validate this? Jeffy, any thoughts on this one?
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we just wired the new part of our garage for 220V.. you need 2 breakers like sharpxman said. they do make them as a single unit double wide but either way it has to take 2"spaces" in the breaker box... and you should have 4 wires (4th is a ground) but for low amp for short runs you can "ignore" the ground and go with 3 wires (this is not optimal, but it is how we wired up our air compressor but the rest is 4 wire for our stick arch welder.)
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we just wired the new part of our garage for 220V.. you need 2 breakers like sharpxman said. they do make them as a single unit double wide but either way it has to take 2"spaces" in the breaker box... and you should have 4 wires (4th is a ground) but for low amp for short runs you can "ignore" the ground and go with 3 wires (this is not optimal, but it is how we wired up our air compressor but the rest is 4 wire for our stick arch welder.)
Yep, colors black & red are your hot, white is neutral and green to ground (both go to ground strip in breaker box).And honestly I wouldnt run a welder off of 10 gauge,in new construction 10/2 is used to power a fridge.Get something that will handle running the higher volts/amps.If it was me I would run 6/3 with ground,but I tend to over do house/shop related things,think of it as insurance.
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Actually the way a lot of fuseboxes are made you can use a single 220 volt breaker.
It's esentiallty two 110 volt breakers sandwiched together. The fuse box has the contacts for the fuses off both phases staggered so you can use a 220 volt breaker
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we just wired the new part of our garage for 220V.. you need 2 breakers like sharpxman said. they do make them as a single unit double wide but either way it has to take 2"spaces" in the breaker box... and you should have 4 wires (4th is a ground) but for low amp for short runs you can "ignore" the ground and go with 3 wires (this is not optimal, but it is how we wired up our air compressor but the rest is 4 wire for our stick arch welder.)
yep, it's a double size breaker (double wide), the single only gives you 120v
unless you're in Europe or other parts of the world where you have 220v 1phase circuit
as far as i know you don't need 4 wire cable, 3 will do but the appliances (like stove) are using 4 wires
black, red (these go in the double-breaker), white (neutral) and ground
for 240v like compressor, welder, etc you don't need the neutral but you always use the ground wire
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:thumbsup: That's better than I can do right now.
What is that going on?
i used 1/8'' 2% thoriated electrode :) - i tried with 3/32'' and i was melting it and destroying the cups, turns out that welding 2 aluminum plates at 90 deg is way tougher than joining 2 of them together flat. I also played around with the clean/penetration setting, about 35 to 40% clean seems to work best for me. In this case i used a #6 cup but for that electrode a 7 or even 8 would probably be better (having it smaller gave more room to have the tip closer to the seam). It drove me nuts initially, the arc was wandering all over the place and i couldn't seem to have it directed in the right spot, and before i could get the puddle started i was melting the tungsten - i moved to the thicker electrode and had it stick out 1/4'' (or a little over) and used 20cfm argon flow (vs 15 before) - it's like night and day
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Done, returned the breaker, bought the 2 pole 30 amp breaker, 10/3 wire..... Plugged in the Miller 180 and it works like a charm... thank you
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Done, returned the breaker, bought the 2 pole 30 amp breaker, 10/3 wire..... Plugged in the Miller 180 and it works like a charm... thank you
:thumb:
you should call the Miller tech back :rant:
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i used 1/8'' 2% thoriated electrode :) - i tried with 3/32'' and i was melting it and destroying the cups, turns out that welding 2 aluminum plates at 90 deg is way tougher than joining 2 of them together flat. I also played around with the clean/penetration setting, about 35 to 40% clean seems to work best for me. In this case i used a #6 cup but for that electrode a 7 or even 8 would probably be better (having it smaller gave more room to have the tip closer to the seam). It drove me nuts initially, the arc was wandering all over the place and i couldn't seem to have it directed in the right spot, and before i could get the puddle started i was melting the tungsten - i moved to the thicker electrode and had it stick out 1/4'' (or a little over) and used 20cfm argon flow (vs 15 before) - it's like night and day
so my first aluminum welding project is finished :weee:
you can actually tell which is the first weld and which one is last, i got better while working on it (welding scrap is nowhere near real life, i ended up with some narrow spots to weld which almost made me pull my hair), but for a cheapo chinese welder off fleabay and considering my zero aluminum welding experience i'm pretty happy with the result
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Misc/Polaris_Foot_Pegs/Right_FPeg_weld5.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Misc/Polaris_Foot_Pegs/Right_FPeg_weld4.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Misc/Polaris_Foot_Pegs/Right_FPeg_weld3.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Misc/Polaris_Foot_Pegs/Right_FPeg_3.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Misc/Polaris_Foot_Pegs/Left_FPeg_1.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Misc/Polaris_Foot_Pegs/Right_FPeg_Side.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Misc/Polaris_Foot_Pegs/FPegs_finished.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Misc/Polaris_Foot_Pegs/FPegs_Back.jpg)
if you wonder what these are, they're for a Polaris 6x6 ATV for my father in law, originals are made of super thin stamped sheetmetal and they rust thru over 1 year, these should last a bit longer than that
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has anyone seen the Metal-Melding Hero article in the new JP issue? has anyone tried the couple of batteries with a set of jumper cables like they show? if so, how well do they work for simple stick welding? i'd like to get into stick welding but i don't really feel like dropping much more than $150 or so to do it. the setup in the article they say was around $100 bucks.
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has anyone seen the Metal-Melding Hero article in the new JP issue? has anyone tried the couple of batteries with a set of jumper cables like they show? if so, how well do they work for simple stick welding? i'd like to get into stick welding but i don't really feel like dropping much more than $150 or so to do it. the setup in the article they say was around $100 bucks.
In a pinch you can use jumper cables and 3 batteries but I wouldn't make it a regular habit. For $150 you should be able to buy a used arc/stick welder.
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For $150 you should be able to buy a used arc/stick welder.
x2
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ok. with stick welding does 110v vs 220v make much of a difference? i live in an apartment and i'm not going to lose my security deposit by making a special outlet for the welder...
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I could agree that welding scrap is a real life practices. Into a fuse breaker, it may be defends with welding does make well. However, it's good for the 220 volts and tries to see the difference into the 110 volts.
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ok. with stick welding does 110v vs 220v make much of a difference? i live in an apartment and i'm not going to lose my security deposit by making a special outlet for the welder...
you would roughly need double the wire size and breaker for the same welding current with 110 input.
EDIT: your outlets for stove and dryer (if electrical) should have 220v power
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they are electrical, although the garage is across a 50ft courtyard and my dryer is upstairs. not sure they make 100ft extension cords for a 220.
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welding shock mounts on the axle ? what about spring mounting plates with shock mounts made together ?? like what is used by the MJ ??
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welding shock mounts on the axle ? what about spring mounting plates with shock mounts made together ?? like what is used by the MJ ??
Shouldn't be a problem. My Currie can accept studs for shocks. I know some people use the stock YJ plates for shock mounts as well. Shock mounts are usually less then $30 a pair though.
When I welded my shock mounts, I rotated mine up so they're not hanging any locker then the spring plate.
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Well, I finally decided to buy myself a welder. I went Chinese, since all the branded stuff here is over $600 (WAAAAAAYYY too much to learn with!). So I got me a 105A MIG welder that can use both flux chore or gas. It's 220V (not an issue for me), and has 4 power settings. I have not yet tried it out, but plan to do so sometime this week (time permiting). By the way, it was a bit under $200, which for Costa Rica is DIRT CHEAP (that means in the US it would be around $75; probably wont last all that long, but I dont intend to use it all that much either, so I guess it's OK to learn with).
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Congrats! I'm not sure if I'll ever get a welder. :whistle:
I'm looking at maybe getting another guitar.. :wall: :lol:
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Congrats! I'm not sure if I'll ever get a welder. :whistle:
I'm looking at maybe getting another guitar.. :wall: :lol:
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/FourbangerYJ/thread/wtf.gif) (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/FourbangerYJ/thread/Doh02.gif)
Congrats on the new purchase jf.
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(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/FourbangerYJ/thread/wtf.gif) (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/FourbangerYJ/thread/Doh02.gif)
Congrats on the new purchase jf.
Shhhhh! They're pretty.
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Congrats! I'm not sure if I'll ever get a welder. :whistle:
I'm looking at maybe getting another guitar.. :wall: :lol:
Well, I already got 2 guitars, so that's enough for me...
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Well, I already got 2 guitars, so that's enough for me...
I have two but one's a crappy beginner. I'm looking at getting a Gibson Traditional. Enough to buy two welders if I was going to do so. :uhoh:
Although if I downgrade my Jeep enough I won't have to ever buy a welder. :lol:
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I think one important thing to remember also when out buying these welders is whats called the duty cycles on them which i havnt seen mentioned much in here. The duty cycle on a welder indicates how much time it can run at full power in an hours time. Some expensive ones have 100% duty cycles which basicly means you should be able to run it constantly without ever burning it up, while cheaper ones have lets say a 20% duty cycle which means u can only run it full power for 20% or an hour which is 12 minutes before having to let it cool down. Knowing this can save you from messing your welders up
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Thought I might chime in here. Having a lot of experience welding I can tell you that I have owned Lincolns, but I prefer Miller. My stable contains a Miller 140 Auto-set mig, Miller 212 mig, Miller Synchrowave 180SD tig, Miller Bobcat 250 engine-driven welder, Thermal Dynamics CutMaster 82 plasma cutter with manual & machine torches, and a Torchmate TM2 4X4 CNC plasma table with AVHC, not to mention numerous sets of Victor torches and a Premier Power welder set up on my truck. I am open to offer information to anybody here requiring it.
Chas
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miller 212 w/auto set here and a powermax PM45 plasma.. oh and an OLD OLD OLD lincoln buzz box stick welder
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Sharp, what kind of TIG welder are you using?
I am thinking of one of these. https://www.longevity-inc.com/productcategory_38/Welders/TIG-Welders.php The 200D.
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Sharp, what kind of TIG welder are you using?
I am thinking of one of these. https://www.longevity-inc.com/productcategory_38/Welders/TIG-Welders.php The 200D.
mine is a Riland 200AC/DC very similar to the one in the site you posted called ArcMate LW-200ACDC (including the stick welder output) - just like this one it has Toshiba Mosfets. Mine has pre-flow, post-low, downslope, clean/penetrate settings, amps and couple more that i set at the beginning and never touched since. Once you plug in the pedal on the one i have the amp setting on the panel has no effect, i read of some that do set the max current when the pedal is plugged but the one i have does not work that way.
i'm using a Riland foot pedal. The pedal it's kinda lame so i recommend getting a quality one if available (mine was really cheap, works fine for high amps from about 35 to 200 but i can only do low amps on the trigger with the front panel pot so i have no control there, i have a mod in mind for the pedal to limit the top current so i get better accuracy on low amps but didn't get around to do it).
You might want to look also at the ones that are IGBT based, apparently they are more robust although i put mine thru hours of continuous welding and didn't have an issue but you never know - and also, i don't weld every day. Check out Everlast as well, these 2 guys were partners at some point (and they are brothers in law) but got some beef going and split up - if you send one an email that the other offered you some deal you'll get a good discount :lol: (if they didn't yet reconcile).
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Also, would be nice if you can find one with adjustable AC frequency, most are working at a fixed 60Hz like the utility power
EDIT: the Everlast and Longevity newer ones have adjustable AC frequency, i was looking at PowerTig 200DX, it's cheaper than the similar Longevity one which i assume it's basically the same thing with a different case (the name of that is TigWeld 200DX) by about $100, and you can make an offer on them as well. both have 5 year warranty which is pretty decent imo, got my Riland with DOA return policy but i was lucky (it was brand new but you never know).
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mine is a Riland 200AC/DC very similar to the one in the site you posted called ArcMate LW-200ACDC (including the stick welder output) - just like this one it has Toshiba Mosfets. Mine has pre-flow, post-low, downslope, clean/penetrate settings, amps and couple more that i set at the beginning and never touched since. Once you plug in the pedal on the one i have the amp setting on the panel has no effect, i read of some that do set the max current when the pedal is plugged but the one i have does not work that way.
i'm using a Riland foot pedal. The pedal it's kinda lame so i recommend getting a quality one if available (mine was really cheap, works fine for high amps from about 35 to 200 but i can only do low amps on the trigger with the front panel pot so i have no control there, i have a mod in mind for the pedal to limit the top current so i get better accuracy on low amps but didn't get around to do it).
You might want to look also at the ones that are IGBT based, apparently they are more robust although i put mine thru hours of continuous welding and didn't have an issue but you never know - and also, i don't weld every day. Check out Everlast as well, these 2 guys were partners at some point (and they are brothers in law) but got some beef going and split up - if you send one an email that the other offered you some deal you'll get a good discount :lol: (if they didn't yet reconcile).
The 200D is IGBT based. It's not a AC unit but I don't plan on doing alum. Have not done any so far.
The 160SX is AC/DC for about the same price. But again I don't see any alum in the future.
Is yours wired for 220v and 110v?
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The 200D is IGBT based. It's not a AC unit but I don't plan on doing alum. Have not done any so far.
The 160SX is AC/DC for about the same price. But again I don't see any alum in the future.
Is yours wired for 220v and 110v?
120/240v, but at 120v it only does (if i remember correctly) about 100 or 120Amps, i use mine at 240, only difference is the plug, no rewiring involved, it's autoswitching.
i still think you should go with an AC/DC unit, make an offer and see how it goes. I didn't think i'll do aluminum either but i found uses for that from random brackets, the radiator mount, piping and even a baffle tube on my t-case so solve my oil out the vent problem. My only issue is the lack of adjustment on the AC frequency - you'll end up thinking why you didn't get it the first time you'll need to weld some aluminum for some random thing that didn't cross your mind - most likely be right after it arrived :lol:
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How thick of material can you weld at 100-120 amps?
I think you are right about getting a unit with AC. Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
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How thick of material can you weld at 100-120 amps?
I think you are right about getting a unit with AC. Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
dunno at 100, like i said mine is a 200 and I welded 1/2'' material no problem (with enough chamfer of course), you could weld thicker but it's all based on how quick and what's the acceptable warping if you heat up the pieces too much. the other thing that i noticed when you weld thick pieces is the torch gets really hot, so if you do that on a constant basis you should look at a watercooled torch but i don't think that's something you need unless you plan to do it a lot (not worth the expense otherwise, just have to take a break and let it cool). one thing i noticed when they list the material thickness to me it looks like it's based on enough penetration on 1 pass to create a weld strong enough to compare with the strength of the material you are welding (like for example they say 1/4'' thick for 200Amp tig welder but that's really a walk in the park for the one i have, so that's where i got it from). Aluminum thickness rating is also lower than the steel (or requires more amps).
100 amp is probably good for 1/8'' or maybe 1/4'' with multiple passes, it's really how much penetration you get, you can still surface weld any thickness but the question is if it will be as strong as the the pieces you weld. if strength is not a concern you can weld them together but at a certain thickness you will also develop cracks in the weld if there's not enough penetration from what i could figure out with my own experiments, but since i am far from being an expert and just a backyard/home garage junkie i could be wrong on any of the statements above so anyone who's a welder by profession or more experience and knowledge please feel free to correct any mess in my post.
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You also have to consider voltage, some welders run at 18, 24, or 48 volts and up.
100 amps at 18 V is way less penetration than 100 at 48...
Later
Dave
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You also have to consider voltage, some welders run at 18, 24, or 48 volts and up.
100 amps at 18 V is way less penetration than 100 at 48...
Later
Dave
so what settings and wire size would you use on a mig welder to get 100Amps at 18 volts and then 100amps at 48volts to compare the penetration between the 2 of them?
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Just picked up a new Ready Welder II. :clap:
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I just got a HTP Invertec 221 DV Tig machine. :dance:
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I just got a HTP Invertec 221 DV Tig machine. :dance:
link?
how much?
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link?
how much?
Sorry for the delay, I have been busy welding stuff!
Here is the link. They are not cheap! But they are a bit cheaper than the Lincoln and Miller products that have the same features.
http://www.usaweld.com/TIG-WELDER-Invertig-221-Welder-p/70221-12.5-2.htm
I took advantage of their black Friday deal. It ends on Dec 2. They only do a sale once a year. This is a small company, maybe 10 people working there. If you want a HTP machine you need to buy it from them. They don't have a distributor system any more.
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Sorry for the delay, I have been busy welding stuff!
Here is the link. They are not cheap! But they are a bit cheaper than the Lincoln and Miller products that have the same features.
http://www.usaweld.com/TIG-WELDER-Invertig-221-Welder-p/70221-12.5-2.htm
I took advantage of their black Friday deal. It ends on Dec 2. They only do a sale once a year. This is a small company, maybe 10 people working there. If you want a HTP machine you need to buy it from them. They don't have a distributor system any more.
very cool machine, the adjustable freq for AC welding is great.
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Welder dilemma. Would you rather have a 110v that you could use anywhere or have a 220v where you may end up at a place without 220v?
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Welder dilemma. Would you rather have a 110v that you could use anywhere or have a 220v where you may end up at a place without 220v?
most of them that support 240v would work with either 120 or 240 unless you're in Europe, I would go with a 240 to get the extra amps and look for one that supports both voltages. For example Lincoln has a version of powermig 180 that is dual voltage, with 120v works up to 140A DC, with 240v is 180A. The 120v version is only 140A, you get the idea.
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-ca/Equipment/Pages/product.aspx?product=K3018-2(LincolnElectric)
PS: i'm not saying you should buy a Lincoln, good choice and quality if you want to spend the money though, if you go on a budget there are Chinese versions less costly (the chinese tig I have is dual voltage)
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I'm looking at the Millermatic 141 and 190. You have to go up to the 210 to get dual voltage unit (though that's not out of the question). Currently I have access to 220 but that might not always be the case which is why I'm wondering if I should just get the 110 which will work everywhere. I don't think I'll have any big welding jobs which is the other thing to consider. Most skid plates/brackets are 3/16". I don't think I'll be making bumpers.
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I think I'm just going to go with the 190 and 110v be damned.
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190 is nice, the other one though is only $200 more - but the 190 is lighter and smaller. I believe any household has 240 nowadays, all dryers and stoves run on that (and the water heaters if electric), only challenge is to have it wired but even with the ones that have 120v you still can't use a regular plug/receptacle (you need at least 20 amps if not more depending on the model).