Author Topic: Control arms or 4"  (Read 1542 times)

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mattbo505

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Control arms or 4"
« on: June 14, 2012, 05:46:34 AM »
Hey guys I have a TJ with the 2.5" suspension coil spacers. Previous owner installed it very basic lift at i am sure you are all aware. Problem lies at highway speeds the jeep gets the sways side to side hinting to control arms from what i understand. My question is should i jump on a new set of control arms to fix this problem or should i go for the full blown 4" suspension with control arms, new shocks, transfer drop kit and the works? My next question is would i need to do any drive train modifications ie: beefen up drive shafts? Any suggestions would be appreciated!!

Offline stan98tj

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Re: Control arms or 4"
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2012, 07:27:35 AM »
Hey guys I have a TJ with the 2.5" suspension coil spacers. Previous owner installed it very basic lift at i am sure you are all aware. Problem lies at highway speeds the jeep gets the sways side to side hinting to control arms from what i understand. My question is should i jump on a new set of control arms to fix this problem or should i go for the full blown 4" suspension with control arms, new shocks, transfer drop kit and the works? My next question is would i need to do any drive train modifications ie: beefen up drive shafts? Any suggestions would be appreciated!!
If you are going "full blown" t-case drops should be avoided. At 4" you are better off (some would say absolutely need) to get an SYE (there's your drivetrain mod) and then just tuck that belly up. Why lose the ground clearance with the drop kit? Then you also have to remember the extended brake lines, adjustable track bars...

Next: control arms. Unless they have johnny joints on both ends, don't waste your time or money. Curry, Clayton, Ironman4x4 Fab, JKS(i think has johnny joints) all make really great arms; beefy, solid, adjustable, and most importantly provide a swivel joint of sorts on both ends. Brands like Rough Country, Skyjacker etc don't. If you are going to do a "full blown" kit, make sure the kit provides you with good arms, shocks and springs.
Doing this correctly will cost a good amount of money. If you are sure your control arms are to blame for your swaying (first I've heard of that being the issue) then it may be best to just go ahead and purchase a good set of arms, unless of course you are also tired of your current suspension. Could it be possible your swaying is due to old shocks?
98 TJ 35"Maxxis Trep.Old Man Emu 2.5""+1"BL,IronMan Fab control arms,4.56gears,Ford 8.8+ARB,Currie/IronMan steering, WARN VR10,HP D30 sleeved+ RCV,Body Armor Rock Rails WISHLIST:TDi.Girlfriend hates it :) If you can read this don't flip me over i dont have any $$ left to fix it

Offline neale_rs

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Re: Control arms or 4"
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2012, 07:42:06 AM »
Probably best to go with a 4"  long arm suspension and be done with it.
'95 YJ, 33 x 12.5 mud tires, RE 4.5 ED lift, Atlas 4 speed, rear D44, ARBs front and rear, 4.56 gears, 8000# winch

mattbo505

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Re: Control arms or 4"
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2012, 03:43:20 PM »
Stan i have no clue if it's the control arms or not. I do however need new shocks all the way around and i am honestly tired of the half ass'd 2.5" suspension the PO installed. It's good for how much they are but i'm ready for a better ride all around. I was looking at the Rough Country 4" w/shocks kit for around 5 bills but was hesitant with all the other things i would possibly need like the adjustable control arms losing the transfer drop kit and adding the slip yoke eliminator. Do you have any suggestions as far as a more complete kit elsewhere? I am not an aggressive off-roader i use my jeep mainly for around town driving and when hunting season rolls around to get through a few swampy areas. I don't think i would be looking for a long arm kit. I am more or less looking into something with a nice ride that handles well on and off-road not sacrificing one or the other an in-between kit if there is one?

Thanks for any advice you can shoot my way.

mattbo505

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Re: Control arms or 4"
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2012, 03:58:58 PM »
I guess my question is really this. I am almost 90% decided to start shopping for a newer lift kit but, do i really need all the above stuff mentioned if i'm not an aggressive offroader?

Offline stan98tj

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Re: Control arms or 4"
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2012, 08:57:31 PM »
Stan i have no clue if it's the control arms or not. I do however need new shocks all the way around and i am honestly tired of the half ass'd 2.5" suspension the PO installed. It's good for how much they are but i'm ready for a better ride all around. I was looking at the Rough Country 4" w/shocks kit for around 5 bills but was hesitant with all the other things i would possibly need like the adjustable control arms losing the transfer drop kit and adding the slip yoke eliminator. Do you have any suggestions as far as a more complete kit elsewhere? I am not an aggressive off-roader i use my jeep mainly for around town driving and when hunting season rolls around to get through a few swampy areas. I don't think i would be looking for a long arm kit. I am more or less looking into something with a nice ride that handles well on and off-road not sacrificing one or the other an in-between kit if there is one?

Thanks for any advice you can shoot my way.
Rough Country is great at the 2.5" kit. That is what I have had for the last 4 yrs. The shocks have finally crapped out on me and it's time for a new kit. I went with IronMan4x4 Fab control arms all around (upper/lower, front/rear) with johnny joints and i will be swapping out the RC kit for an Old Man Emu kit from DPG off road. This time I want to make sure I get the best feeling ride possible and best quality. When i bouht the RC kit, i was on a college student budget and NO manufacturer could beat their price for a simple 2.5" kit. THey included springs, shocks, t-case drop, discos for around $350. The kit flexed awesome, rode better than my tired stock set up and lasted as a daily driver. But within 2 yrs, i could feel it getting rougher and now it's just plain shot.

The question you need to answer is what you want to spend. I would advise against RC if you go for the 4" kit. They don't do too well with the more complicated and complete set ups. For that amount of suspension modification, you want top of the line quality. Now, you can swap out the parts from the RC kit that aren't that great. The control arms would be a start. Anything from Currie, Clayton, IronMan 4x4 Fab or the like will set you up with VERY nice arms and you won't have to worry about it later. Im not sure if RC has a newer version of their shocks or not, but i would ask for their best model shock and compare it to a Bilstein or an OME. RC has come a bit of a ways over the last few years, so they may have improved their shocks. You could just opt to leave out their shocks and upgrade to fox, bilstein or OME.

You asked for complete all inclusive kits:
DPG offroad offers great Old Man Emu set ups for Jeeps. They will allow for fitment of up to 35" tires. They are a bit pricey, however, they allow you to modify and delete parts if you would rather go with a different brand. The draw back is they run JKS control arms without johnny joints and they are a bit expensive. For that amoutn, you can get a beefier set of IronMan arms with JJs. Since I was already running the IronMan arms and i already have a body lift, i will be getting that kit minus those two items. I would suggest you ask for johnny joints on your JKS arms if you go with a DPG kit, otherwise it's a waste of $.

Currie offers 3"kits with fox or bilstein shocks and their control arms. They always have johnny joints.
Clayton is another brand that offeres excellent complete package kits with their brand of control arms.
These full kits do come with a bit of a heavy price tag, but at least warranties and tech support will all be under one roof, so to speak. There are probably other kits out there that do the same, the main components that I look for  are the control arms, springs and available shocks with the kit. The control arms should have an option for a flex or swivel joint on both ends otherwise it's not worth it, the springs should preferably be progressive rate and the shocks should be, well, good (like an OME, fox or bilstein).

You could save a bit by swapping out the weak links on a kit like i suggested with the RC kit. RC springs, their top end shocks (or OME, fox or bilstein if their top end ones aren't great) and control arms from good brand.
98 TJ 35"Maxxis Trep.Old Man Emu 2.5""+1"BL,IronMan Fab control arms,4.56gears,Ford 8.8+ARB,Currie/IronMan steering, WARN VR10,HP D30 sleeved+ RCV,Body Armor Rock Rails WISHLIST:TDi.Girlfriend hates it :) If you can read this don't flip me over i dont have any $$ left to fix it

Offline neale_rs

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Re: Control arms or 4"
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2012, 09:17:17 PM »
The truth is that lifts lead to a lot of spending.  One thing leads to another and pretty soon you have spent thousands off dollars.  If you don't get an SYE right away, you will probably want to get one later.  Then being able to fit larger tires will lead you into that. Then you will feel the need to regear the axles.  Later you will be shopping for adjustable control arms and adjustable track bars.  The way to have a Jeep that handles well on road and can do not too extreme trails without spending a lot is to get a budget boost and some 31" tires.  Any more than that and the spending starts to escalate.

It sounds like you mainly want the Jeep to stop swaying at speed.  This should be fixable without changing the whole suspension.  Maybe some bushings are worn out and can be replaced.  Maybe the anti-sway bars are loose or their bushings have a lot of play.  Maybe the track bar ends are worn out.  It's most likely a few simple things like this.  My brother recently went through this with a stock '96 ZJ.  The front suspension had just gotten loose and the bushings were worn, but once this was fixed it once again handles great on the highway.
'95 YJ, 33 x 12.5 mud tires, RE 4.5 ED lift, Atlas 4 speed, rear D44, ARBs front and rear, 4.56 gears, 8000# winch

Offline stan98tj

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Re: Control arms or 4"
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2012, 09:36:09 PM »
 If you don't get an SYE right away, you will probably want to get one later.  Then being able to fit larger tires will lead you into that.
if he's looking at 4" kits, he's gonna need an SYE i think, don't think there's any way around it.
98 TJ 35"Maxxis Trep.Old Man Emu 2.5""+1"BL,IronMan Fab control arms,4.56gears,Ford 8.8+ARB,Currie/IronMan steering, WARN VR10,HP D30 sleeved+ RCV,Body Armor Rock Rails WISHLIST:TDi.Girlfriend hates it :) If you can read this don't flip me over i dont have any $$ left to fix it

mattbo505

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Re: Control arms or 4"
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2012, 06:05:42 AM »
Yes neale_rs my main goal would be to stop the swaying around 60-65mph but it is also time for a newer better quality suspension. Here's what i have done to clear up any confusion on my jeep's mod's. Re-geared to 4.88's, air intake, Electric fan, 33x12.50, TBS on order, and a header is on the wish list. I have honestly done everything besides worked hard on the suspension and feel it's time to start looking for a kit or possibly piecing together one myself. One thing i want to avoid is going to far overboard with stuff i don't need. I live in Florida and possibly don't need a fully articulating suspension. I really appreciate all the information you guys have given so far. If you have any more advice i will gladly take it.

Offline stan98tj

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Re: Control arms or 4"
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2012, 07:08:28 AM »
Currie:
http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/categories.aspx?id=993

Clayton:
http://claytonoffroad.com/index.php/cPath/17?osCsid=217ebea93ac66ada9284c38c87b4da41

those two are right at the top end of the spectrum. Mixing and matching from other brands could save you some $$ and still give you a very good setup
98 TJ 35"Maxxis Trep.Old Man Emu 2.5""+1"BL,IronMan Fab control arms,4.56gears,Ford 8.8+ARB,Currie/IronMan steering, WARN VR10,HP D30 sleeved+ RCV,Body Armor Rock Rails WISHLIST:TDi.Girlfriend hates it :) If you can read this don't flip me over i dont have any $$ left to fix it

Offline neale_rs

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Re: Control arms or 4"
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2012, 08:17:13 AM »
In that case I would recommend the following shopping list:

1) 4" lift kit with adjustable upper control arms or mix and match if it comes out cheaper
2) Adjustable track bar for the front and for the rear either an adjustable or a track bar relocation bracket.
3) SYE and CV rear drive shaft

For the type of wheeling you do it does not sound like you need joints in the control arms, probably rubber bushings would work well enough.

'95 YJ, 33 x 12.5 mud tires, RE 4.5 ED lift, Atlas 4 speed, rear D44, ARBs front and rear, 4.56 gears, 8000# winch