Author Topic: Turbochargers  (Read 110105 times)

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chrisjsmith4

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Re: The Official turbo thread
« Reply #285 on: March 29, 2010, 07:21:09 PM »
It makes sense but its running lean. the part number for the injectors is 1W7EAA from www.fiveomotorsport.com. you will have to call them cause they don't list the part on their web site. The 2500 is just an approximation. I have to look down to see my boost gauge and take my eyes off the tach. (Cause of where its placed, didn't know they make gauge pillars for tjs) And its probably at full throttle.

I spoke to my mechanic today. said that a reason that the code is coming up is that its constantly lean so the pcm thinks the 02 is bad. thought?

I what your thinking with the math is that maybe my injectors are not sized correctly. Bigger injectors will make up for the map not reading past 1 bar. Does altitude make any difference? cause i'm at about 2500 ft.

Offline sharpxmen

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Re: The Official turbo thread
« Reply #286 on: March 29, 2010, 07:25:00 PM »
it is most likely lean as my guess is the injectors are 27lb/hr at 43.5psi. I don't have time right now but i will get back to you later on this with some specific numbers.
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chrisjsmith4

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Re: The Official turbo thread
« Reply #287 on: March 29, 2010, 08:08:46 PM »
they are the same ones as air sierra, his jeep ran fine with them. My question is what is different between our jeeps that mine won't run right?

Offline sharpxmen

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Re: The Official turbo thread
« Reply #288 on: March 29, 2010, 10:21:06 PM »
they are the same ones as air sierra, his jeep ran fine with them. My question is what is different between our jeeps that mine won't run right?

i guess that's between Air Sierra and yourself to figure out. Forgot to ask you, since yours is a 2.4L and i don't know the specifics on that EFI - what is your fuel pressure and stock injector size? does yours have a fuel pressure regulator on the rail or is it in the tank like on the previous TJs (and if it's on the rail does it have a vacuum port)?

« Last Edit: March 29, 2010, 10:22:51 PM by sharpxmen »
'95 YJ, NSG370 6spd / Hurst shifter, Dana 300 + 4:1 Doubler / tri-stick, Custom skid, Super D35 / Auburn LSD / 4.88, 35x12.5x15 BFG KM2, 64mm t/b, 1.7 RollerRockers, MkVIII e-fan, Dual Diaph Booster
Latest: Corbeau BajaRS heated seats :dance: keeping warm the rear end

Vodkaman

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Re: The Official turbo thread
« Reply #289 on: March 30, 2010, 04:30:17 AM »
Merged the "Re: Throttle body position. Before or after charger? " with the turbo Thread so it doesn't get lost.
Looks like my thread was eaten by bigger company. :'(

chrisjsmith4

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Re: The Official turbo thread
« Reply #290 on: March 30, 2010, 09:38:21 PM »
 fuel pressure is 49 psi, stock injector is 22#, fuel regulator is on the rail with no vacuum port. there isn't a vacuum port on any part of the fuel rail. Made testing the fuel pressure a pain cause I had to take it to a shop that could.

question. Because my turbo does not have an intercooler. Is it throwing off my IAT sensor making it run lean cause its getting hot air right from the turbo into the manifold. Just thought of this this morning. Maybe i'm off.

I spoke to a dyno tuning shop today about my jeep. Told him what I was doing and what was going on. I told him I was thinking about the split second ftc1 piggyback and he was pretty hesitant cause he has had bad experiences with one but he was running 32 lbs of boost on a v8. He said it might work with my setup and told me to get it and he can help me tune it. 300 bucks for the tune with dyno pulls. could get you guys some numbers. What do you guys think?????

Offline sharpxmen

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Re: The Official turbo thread
« Reply #291 on: March 30, 2010, 10:21:48 PM »
fuel pressure is 49 psi, stock injector is 22#, fuel regulator is on the rail with no vacuum port. there isn't a vacuum port on any part of the fuel rail. Made testing the fuel pressure a pain cause I had to take it to a shop that could.

question. Because my turbo does not have an intercooler. Is it throwing off my IAT sensor making it run lean cause its getting hot air right from the turbo into the manifold. Just thought of this this morning. Maybe i'm off.

I spoke to a dyno tuning shop today about my jeep. Told him what I was doing and what was going on. I told him I was thinking about the split second ftc1 piggyback and he was pretty hesitant cause he has had bad experiences with one but he was running 32 lbs of boost on a v8. He said it might work with my setup and told me to get it and he can help me tune it. 300 bucks for the tune with dyno pulls. could get you guys some numbers. What do you guys think?????

rough calculation here considering that the stock injectors are 22lb/hr at 49psi - like i said before you are roughly getting about 40% more air at 6psi of boost (all this at sea level) so you should have roughly 30.8lb/hr injectors - that is at the resulting fuel pressure which is the differential between the fuel rail and the intake manifold pressure since you have no vac/boost port on the fuel regulator (49psi-6psi=43psi) - but also consider that you are in boost so you want to be on the rich side and not like the stock afr which is for normally aspirated engines not to mention the fact that you don't have an intercooler (hotter air) - so i'd say another 10% would be a safe bet - 32 to 34 lb/hr at 43.5psi fuel pressure would probably work. All that is at WOT but most likely you'll have problems with the intermediate stages since you're not recalibrating the MAP sensor. With your injectors if they are 27lb/hr at 43.5psi my guess is that your engine runs at it's best starting around 2 psi up to about 4 after which you're lean, before that you're probably rich.

I don't think the Split second on it's own will do, my guess is that you will need also larger injectors but you could start with the piggyback first and see what the dyno shop tells you.

i can't remember where i read this but one of the companies that was making a mechanical centrifugal supercharger for Jeeps was recommending moving the IAT sensor ahead of the compressor, but in that case you might get pinging unless you go really rich and maybe have an intercooler installed. st.chevrolet (Sean) ended up with a methanol/water injection for chemical intercooling.

'95 YJ, NSG370 6spd / Hurst shifter, Dana 300 + 4:1 Doubler / tri-stick, Custom skid, Super D35 / Auburn LSD / 4.88, 35x12.5x15 BFG KM2, 64mm t/b, 1.7 RollerRockers, MkVIII e-fan, Dual Diaph Booster
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Vodkaman

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Re: The Official turbo thread
« Reply #292 on: March 31, 2010, 12:02:06 AM »
  fuel regulator is on the rail with no vacuum port.

I think you are mistaken. Fuel pressure regulator is in the tank, there is no return line on 2.4. The thing which looks like regulator and stands on rail is just a compensator for fuel pressure loss in the moment when injectors open.

Offline sharpxmen

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Re: The Official turbo thread
« Reply #293 on: April 01, 2010, 08:56:41 AM »
I think you are mistaken. Fuel pressure regulator is in the tank, there is no return line on 2.4. The thing which looks like regulator and stands on rail is just a compensator for fuel pressure loss in the moment when injectors open.

you're right, that's probably the dampener - seems that the fuel system is the same as the 2.5L TJ with the exception of injectors which are a tad smaller on the 2.4L (if they are 22lb/hr at 49psi)
'95 YJ, NSG370 6spd / Hurst shifter, Dana 300 + 4:1 Doubler / tri-stick, Custom skid, Super D35 / Auburn LSD / 4.88, 35x12.5x15 BFG KM2, 64mm t/b, 1.7 RollerRockers, MkVIII e-fan, Dual Diaph Booster
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chrisjsmith4

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Re: Turbochargers
« Reply #294 on: April 01, 2010, 08:29:05 PM »
So if its in the tank can I adjust it? Get some more pressure to the injectors?

Offline sharpxmen

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Re: Turbochargers
« Reply #295 on: April 01, 2010, 09:19:49 PM »
So if its in the tank can I adjust it? Get some more pressure to the injectors?

nope, and would not do you much good for 2 reasons:
1. you start at 49 psi which is high already
2. the flow is directly proportional with the pressure squared (psi^2) so that means for example to bring your 27lb/hr at 43.5psi to 32lb/hr you need 61psi, but you also need to overcome the 6psi boost in the intake manifold so that would make it 67psi total, that is quite high for the stock pump and also you might have some issues with the injectors running at 61psi (they might or might not atomize the fuel properly)
'95 YJ, NSG370 6spd / Hurst shifter, Dana 300 + 4:1 Doubler / tri-stick, Custom skid, Super D35 / Auburn LSD / 4.88, 35x12.5x15 BFG KM2, 64mm t/b, 1.7 RollerRockers, MkVIII e-fan, Dual Diaph Booster
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chrisjsmith4

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Re: Turbochargers
« Reply #296 on: April 01, 2010, 09:56:41 PM »
I see. Well since the piggyback comes with a new map sensor shouldn't will i need to get bigger fuel injectors?

Offline sharpxmen

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Re: Turbochargers
« Reply #297 on: April 01, 2010, 10:20:19 PM »
I see. Well since the piggyback comes with a new map sensor shouldn't will i need to get bigger fuel injectors?

i answered that a few posts back (the answer is yes you will need bigger injectors anyway)

EDIT: here's a good read http://www.splitsec.com/technotes/Fuel-Engine_in_Boost_using_2-bar_Map_Sensor.pdf
and this one http://www.gadgetonline.com/U-Tune.pdf

will give you a good light on tuning and challenges when moving from a normally aspirated to a forced induction setup.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2010, 10:25:21 PM by sharpxmen »
'95 YJ, NSG370 6spd / Hurst shifter, Dana 300 + 4:1 Doubler / tri-stick, Custom skid, Super D35 / Auburn LSD / 4.88, 35x12.5x15 BFG KM2, 64mm t/b, 1.7 RollerRockers, MkVIII e-fan, Dual Diaph Booster
Latest: Corbeau BajaRS heated seats :dance: keeping warm the rear end

Vodkaman

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Re: Turbochargers
« Reply #298 on: April 02, 2010, 04:46:53 AM »
One of a must recommendations for turbo setup on Dodge forum is Walboro  255 lph High Volume Fuel Pump. They also recommend 30 lb injectors.

chrisjsmith4

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Re: Turbochargers
« Reply #299 on: April 02, 2010, 06:40:16 PM »
awesome. another 150 for more injectors. Anyone hiring cause I need to make more money lol. I'm headed to the Casino. Who's with me?!!! I'll check those sights out. Thanks