Topic: Best street usage 2.5 mods.

[Mr_Random]

Banks has a 2.5L header? Dang I didn't search enough...

[Bounty Hunter]

http://www.bankspower.com/products/show/220/54

[blacknblue]

I am running a Banks header, along with the Banks Monster exhaust.  No complaints.  I had a shop install it, so I cant tell you about that.   It did free up some top end and along with the exhaust it sounds great.  I have noticed some valve tap recently...not right away but after the exhaust opened up a bit the engine sounded different.  The header is alot lighter and smaller than stock,  so you are able to hear the valves tapping at lower rpms.  I can certainly live with it.  I have heard of people saying the valve gasket that they give you sucks,  but I think it is better than oem.  It is alot thicker, and able to withstand higher temps.  All around I think Banks is a great engineering company...way better than Pacesetter...Banks offers alot of parts for diesels, as well as intakes.   

[dudley]

Damn Dudley- I'm sorry that you had problems with the Clifford header.  I feel like I let you down by recommending it.  Mine fits well; no spacers, rubbing, tight clearances, or whatever; so I beleive that there must be a problem with Clifford's process.  I'm sorry for that.   I am glad that it seems to have provided a bit of "boost".  I'm wondering if you have a cam, or are you planning on one?  Some of what I've read indicates that full benefit of the header will come with a cam installation.  Be sure to check the header/intake bolts for tightness quite often for a while- mine still tended to loosen up two months later, but seem to have reached a "set" now, and haven't needed to retorque for some time (and I do still check them on a regular basis).   Better luck next time.
Castr8r

Sure isn't your problem!  It is a clifford problem!  I am wondering, given the post by Pioneer4x4 that had the same problem I did on his 86, and mine being 87, if there is not a difference maybe in width of head between pre and post 91.  Any one know?  This would account for the hitting the block on earlier 2.5.s, and Clifford should become aware of that fact since then advertise this header fitting all 2.5's.

[pioneer4x4]

I know its propably not good but could it really be harmful if the header hits the block like that. I figure it could be bad due to heat transfering to oil and block, but what about any other issues, Im asking because I got my clifford headers ceramic coated and didnt think I could bend them or tap them in like Dudley did, or can I? also is there maybe a spacer i could install or no, dont know.

[dudley]

I know its propably not good but could it really be harmful if the header hits the block like that. I figure it could be bad due to heat transfering to oil and block, but what about any other issues, Im asking because I got my clifford headers ceramic coated and didnt think I could bend them or tap them in like Dudley did, or can I? also is there maybe a spacer i could install or no, dont know.

It's actually not really good to tap them in because I had to do some serious flattening. That will be a place for rust to now start.  If you tap yours, you will probably break the ceramic, water can get in there, and the header will rust at that spot.  If you read everything that happened to my fitting them, when I first tapped in the edge of the pan a bit in the hopes they would clear, they still didn't, but now the collector was hitting my bellhousing.  It took Clifford actually taking the tubes loose from the "Y" and turning them out to clear the bellhousing.  You will probably have the same problem.  I actually had to flatten a good half an inch to get a quarter of an inch of clearance.  If your header is touching your block, chances are you are not getting a good seal on the bottom of the header flange at the head. That will be a problem later on.
I emailed Clifford and mentioned that both an 86 and 87 2.5 application had the same problem of the header hitting, but not a 91 and later 2.5.  Could the head be thicker at the place where the manifolds bolt on with a 91 and later (MPI) as compared to 90 and earlier (TBI and carb)? That is all I can think of as the problem.
Sorry, Pioneer 4x4 cuz you spent more than me and have the same problem!   

[dudley]

Damn Dudley- I'm sorry that you had problems with the Clifford header.  I feel like I let you down by recommending it.  Mine fits well; no spacers, rubbing, tight clearances, or whatever; so I beleive that there must be a problem with Clifford's process.  I'm sorry for that.   I am glad that it seems to have provided a bit of "boost".  I'm wondering if you have a cam, or are you planning on one?  Some of what I've read indicates that full benefit of the header will come with a cam installation.  Be sure to check the header/intake bolts for tightness quite often for a while- mine still tended to loosen up two months later, but seem to have reached a "set" now, and haven't needed to retorque for some time (and I do still check them on a regular basis).   Better luck next time.
Castr8r

Fergot to mention:  Yes, I do have a cam.  It is by delta out of Tacoma, WA.  I don't have the stats handy, but they had three versions and I took the smallest increase in lift/duration.  I just wanted it to breath a bit better w/o affecting idle.  Plus, I have a free flow c converter and a single in, dual out Flowmaster.  So, I have dual chrome turn down tips coming out from under the bumper, and the sound resonating off the ground is not loud, but deep and healthy sounding.  If I did not know it was a 2.5, I would think it might be a small stock V-8 because it does not sound like a v or straight 6 in sound.  I like the looks fellow jeepsters give when they hear it.   

[pioneer4x4]

has clifford replyed back to your email, im interested in what they say, theyll probably just avoid you.

[dudley]

has clifford replyed back to your email, im interested in what they say, theyll probably just avoid you.

Received a reply from Larry at Clifford surprised at what I was saying. Apparently Dave, whom I spoke with on the phone, did not let Larry know what I told him, and that I hung up on him.  I will wait to hear back from Larry.  He said the last mod made to this header was in '86, and I asked if he checked for fitment issues since in 91 they changed from TBI to MPFI.  I did say part numbers changed on the heads which should have caused them to make sure of fitment, although some of the change may have been combustion chamber mostly.  Yet, there could have been other mod's.  I await his response.
Caster8r, what year is your 2.5?

[dudley]

Castr8r and pioneer4x4; when did you buy your Clifford header?

[pioneer4x4]

bought mine in may, just for the hell of it I emailed him yesterday to see if he would take mine back and send me some that would fit properly, since he wouldnt take yours back since you modified them. he said it was well past the 30 day time limit, even though I have had this discussion with him 3 months ago and gave up, he told me EBAY was an option. he once again said this was the first time he has heard of this issue, suprise suprise Ive heard this before. he told me to email him some pics which i plan to do as soon as i find my camera cord. and all I have ever talked to over there is Larry. did yours come with a O2 sensor bung welded into it like in the website or egr tube line up, just courious. im thinking they screwed up this batch of headers and dont want to eat the cost since they are expensive to make. when I bought mine he said they just sold the last one a couple of days ago and it would take 2 weeks to make another batch. and another 2 weeks for ceramic coat, and since they sent me the wrong ones at first it took another 2 weeks to get the "right ones," he could have at least used some KY when he ****** me after taking 500.00 from me. Im still gonna fight it.

[dudley]

bought mine in may, just for the hell of it I emailed him yesterday to see if he would take mine back and send me some that would fit properly, since he wouldnt take yours back since you modified them. he said it was well past the 30 day time limit, even though I have had this discussion with him 3 months ago and gave up, he told me EBAY was an option. he once again said this was the first time he has heard of this issue, suprise suprise Ive heard this before. he told me to email him some pics which i plan to do as soon as i find my camera cord. and all I have ever talked to over there is Larry. did yours come with a O2 sensor bung welded into it like in the website or egr tube line up, just courious. im thinking they screwed up this batch of headers and dont want to eat the cost since they are expensive to make. when I bought mine he said they just sold the last one a couple of days ago and it would take 2 weeks to make another batch. and another 2 weeks for ceramic coat, and since they sent me the wrong ones at first it took another 2 weeks to get the "right ones," he could have at least used some KY when he ****** me after taking 500.00 from me. Im still gonna fight it.

That's interesting. I bought mine about the same time, in early June.  I was told somewhat the same thing, and that prices would be going up because the cost of steel was going up.  And, when I called and discussed this with them they told me they had never heard of fit problems before.  When did you call them the first time?  I did not install mine until the end of July, and this is when I called them.  Apparently they had already heard from you, but said they had not had anyone call with the problem I was having.  They outright lied to me!  You are free to tell them, "that's funny. In response to my email to you on September 12th you said no one else is having this problem. But,  I KNOW of another man has talked to you about the same problem.  Do you want to lie to me again, for I know you, Larry, you are currently receiving emails from him, and he spoke with Dave on the phone late July or early August about his problem."
If it is alright with you, and without giving names, I will confront them also with the information that you talked to them on (whatever the date you give me, if you want), and that on the 12th he emailed you again, and will confront him with the lie.  At that point I am going to ask to speak with the president/CEO of the company.
I wish it did not come to this, but outright lying is inexcusable!   

[Castr8r]

Runnin' behind again, as usual...    I've had my header on for about two yrs.  I just went outside with a flashlight to check fit and clearances- close, but no cigar!   about a 1/2" from the oil pan seam; a little closer to the oil pan at the bottom.  I did need a shim at the header bolts to get the washer to level out between the header flange and the intake manifold flange.   I removed the EGR system completely, so I didn't open up the "appendix" sticking out of the collector.  The O2 oriface is down low enough that I loosened up the wiring harness and stretched the wiring a bit to make a connection- BIG MISTAKE!  The wires rubbed on the intake manifold and shorted out; burned up the fusible link (which is mislabeled in the Haynes manual by wrong color code/size).  Took me months of frustration to find it, and then found it by accident.  Actually' the O2 bung should be even further down to get a sample from all four cyls. instead of just two.   Oh yeah, for what it's worth, the head casting number is 403.   I did look for my paperwork from when I rebuilt the junkyard engine, but can't locate it offhand, so I'm not totally sure about the time I've had the header.  You know, the usual problems with getting older- CRS and Hereafter disease...   Sorry for your problems and wish I could be more help.

[dudley]

Thanks, Castr8r.  I placed the bung where it was shown on Cliffords website, so it only works on 3 and 4. It is frustrating with what has happened to pioneer4x4 and me. Oh, well.

[pioneer4x4]

That's interesting. I bought mine about the same time, in early June.  I was told somewhat the same thing, and that prices would be going up because the cost of steel was going up.  And, when I called and discussed this with them they told me they had never heard of fit problems before.  When did you call them the first time?  I did not install mine until the end of July, and this is when I called them.  Apparently they had already heard from you, but said they had not had anyone call with the problem I was having.  They outright lied to me!  You are free to tell them, "that's funny. In response to my email to you on September 12th you said no one else is having this problem. But,  I KNOW of another man has talked to you about the same problem.  Do you want to lie to me again, for I know you, Larry, you are currently receiving emails from him, and he spoke with Dave on the phone late July or early August about his problem."
If it is alright with you, and without giving names, I will confront them also with the information that you talked to them on (whatever the date you give me, if you want), and that on the 12th he emailed you again, and will confront him with the lie.  At that point I am going to ask to speak with the president/CEO of the company.
I wish it did not come to this, but outright lying is inexcusable!   

found my reciept I recieved them on may 25th so i called probably early June. Yea thats fine with me if you tell larry about me, I plan on emailing larry again on monday with pics and confront him of the lies. I feel that if we both confront him something would get done. even if it does nothing its worth getting him straight so he stops lieing to others. also cant find either 117 or 403 stamped on the head anywhere, just a bunch of other numbers, where exactly should it be stamped?