Topic: Spring wedges

[Bounty Hunter]

No, your front pinion will still be too high, won't make a difference.  Your pinion needs to come down below being parallel with the driveshaft.

[jfrabat]

No, your front pinion will still be too high, won't make a difference.  Your pinion needs to come down below being parallel with the driveshaft.

Sorry, you lost me here a bit...  OK, so if I take the wedges off, the angle should be parallel to th ground (orclose to it), right?  Then it is just a matter of matching the TC yoke angles with the pinion angles. 

The rear seems like it will be fine if I raise the TC, as I have some room there (and as you already pointed out).  The front seems more of a challenge, but I would first try it out and see if the vibrations are bearable or not.  I doubt it will correct for all of the 4* I need, but if I get 2 or 3, it should bring everything to a bearable level for everyday use while keeping the caster where it should be, right?

I mean it should be much closer to this up front (with less angles, I figure):

[DodgeMudder]

jfrabat sounds like you have a good handle on what the problem is and what the fix is.  I would look at all your mounts and make sure they are in good shape before you go put money/work into raising the t-case, but if the mounts are good then it sounds like raising the mount a little should fix your problem and let you go back to running w/o the shims.

Remember there is a lot of misconceptions when it comes to how to solve driveshaft vibrations, so don't look for everyone to be giving you good info on shafts.  I think trying to put a CV shaft in the front would be opening up a big can of worms that you don't need.  Your angles aren't that far off and it shouldn't be real hard to get that to work out so it doesn't have any vibes.

[jfrabat]

Thanks, Dodge; I'm actually thinking about first replacing the motor mounts, and then looking at the angle once again.  It seems like it will be a real PITA to change the engine mounts while keeping the engine in the bay, but I noticed that one of the rubber mounts (driver side) is broken, and that way I wil lalso be 100% sure that there is no MML installed (I'm pretty sure there is not, but I am not 100% sure).  Besides, I will not be home for the next 3 weeks, so I got some time to think about what I'm gonna do...  But defenetly, if after the new motor mount the angles stay as they are, I will make a spacer with what I have available and correct the angles as much as possible.

[lanulos89]

4 banger motor mounts are cake bud.  mine used to tear like every 3 months  on my yj i had the auto zone lifetime warrentee.  i got so good at em they took me 20 mins.  with basic hand tools just put a jack under the oil pan with a block of wood.  jack it up so it relieves pressure off it a little and take the mount out, one nut is on the bottom and a bolt from the top and the through bolt and its out.  just make sure you do it on completely flat ground and not a slight incline other wise its fun shifting you whole drive train back into alignment.

[Matt vs YJ]

I'm with Bounty Hunter on this one. Your front pinion rotated is too high, even for a CV shaft (which you don't have). If anything it should be just below parallel with the ground. But...

First... replace that motor mount. Broken mounts can cause all kinds of funny vibes and it's best to just get that out of the way.

Next... Get rid of the shims. If you have lift shackles then you have the shims backwards anyway, and it's just compounding the problem. To get the front pinion parallel to the TC input you usually have to use shims with the fat end toward the front of the vehicle. This is common more so with CJs, but you may need to use some 2* of 4* STEEL shims to get it parallel.

Factory specs for caster is 8* on a manual and 6* for auto..

[jfrabat]

OK, so quick help needed once again: which engine mount should I get?  I've seen the two mentioned below on other threads, and I was wondering if the brown dog is really worth the extra dough:

This is the base for me:

Willys Offroad Supply Company's Motor Mount Kit which are $34.44 plus shipping, and include 2 front mounts, 1 rear (transmission) mount, 2 insulators, 1 insulator stud and 1 insulator support bracket

Then we have the Brown Dog Offroad Motor Mounts, Ultra-Flex Rubber



These are $99.95 (no shipping).  They claim that these are the most durable mounts out there.  Now, they do offer Poly (cheaper), but since mine is a daily driver, I'd rather go with rubber to soften the vibrations as much as possible.

Now, Brown Dog Offroad mentions that "many customers have removed the mount to replace it and then saw the cradle busted into a couple pieces. You may want to order the cradle (Brown Dog Part Number CR2569) with the motor mounts".  They also mention that "The original cast aluminum brackets found on many 4-cylinder Jeep of this era weren't designed to handle the strength of these high-performance motor mounts. If you need brackets, order the following kit" and thus they offer a complete set as follows:

Extreme Kit w/ MM, Cradle & Engine Brackets, Ultra-Flex Rubber



"Extreme Kit: Includes Brackets, Motor Mounts, and Cradle
Whether you are replacing broken or worn-out parts or upgrading before a part breaks, this kit won't leave you with a sagging engine miles from civilization. The Brown Dog gives you his promise. 

All Steel Engine Brackets
High Performance Motor Mounts
Replacement Right Mount Support Cradle
All Grade 8 Hardware or 10.9 Metric Equivalent
All Steel Engine Brackets feature double-welded construction for extra strength. The cast aluminum brackets found on many 4 cylinder Jeeps are prone to failure under the torsional stresses associated with even "easy" offroad trails. Once you've seen a busted cast bracket, you'll know why we continue to use these for our own Wrangler. Identical bolt pattern to the original cast aluminum brackets. No engine block modification necessary. Fits 2.5L Jeep Chrysler engines. If you decide to switch from Motor Mounts to Motor Mount Lifts in the future, the lipless design of these brackets will not interfere with installation.



High Performance Motor Mounts feature all-steel, double-welded construction. These high-strength Motor Mounts bolt into the same locations as the original motor mounts. Designed to stand up to the toughest trails Arizona can dish out. (Sorry Utah, we can't stand the cold.) The original mounts, designed for street driving, simply won't stand up to the torsional forces experienced offroad. Motor Mounts are stock height, thus they maintain engine at stock position at the stock cooling fan.


Replacement Cradle Supports Right Mount designed to withstand severe offroad stresses. Constructed entirely of steel and grade 8 (or metric equivalent) studs, cradle bolts directly to the passenger side pylon, holding motor mounts in place. The original cast cradle is very difficult to find, even in salvage yards. Due to it's location between the motor mount and the pylon, it is difficult to see if original cradle is broken. Yet, because it's especially prone to the torsional forces experienced offroad, numerous 2.5L Jeep owners have found their original cradle broken into multiple pieces.

Ships with Grade 8 Hardware (or 10.9 metric equivalent) required to bolt engine brackets to existing engine block bolt pattern. Also includes new Grade 8 thru-bolts, lock nuts and washers for securing brackets to motor mounts."

Now, these are $289.95; is it worth it to replace everything at once?  There's two things that have me thinking:

1. Does a 2.5L engine benefit from having this apparently bomb-proof mount?
2. Is it worth it to get the entire kit if my heep is a daily driver?  I would really not like to take the mounts off only to find some other broken parts that I wont have at that time, so I would be stock without transportation for a week or so...

I am thinking to upgrade since I already am gona be doing the work, but I would like to know your opinions...

Comments and opinions welcome!

Felipe

[oldjeep]

I use the BrownDog mounts - nice pieces.  Currently I have the poly bushings installed with a set of the Superflex sitting on the workbench ready to go in.

#1) The cradle - My cradle was in perfect shape.
#2) The aluminum motor mounts - My motor had 1 of the aluminum ones, I swapped on a factory steel mount from another jeep.

[jfrabat]

I use the BrownDog mounts - nice pieces.  Currently I have the poly bushings installed with a set of the Superflex sitting on the workbench ready to go in.

#1) The cradle - My cradle was in perfect shape.
#2) The aluminum motor mounts - My motor had 1 of the aluminum ones, I swapped on a factory steel mount from another jeep.

Thanks; I called them up, and they have also customer service on weekends, which is good, as that is when I would be installing it.  There are no wranglers here in Miami in Junk Yards (already looked!), so I'm thinking of bitting the bullet and getting the whole set...  You think that would be a good investment (expense really, but I still want to rationalize it as an investment!)?

[oldjeep]

Thanks; I called them up, and they have also customer service on weekends, which is good, as that is when I would be installing it.  There are no wranglers here in Miami in Junk Yards (already looked!), so I'm thinking of bitting the bullet and getting the whole set...  You think that would be a good investment (expense really, but I still want to rationalize it as an investment!)?

I got my engine side mounts off ebay.  Have you looked and verified that you even have the aluminum ones?  One of mine was steel and the other aluminum.  Bout a pair of the stock steel ones for about $50 - still have the extra drivers side mount.

[jfrabat]

I got my engine side mounts off ebay.  Have you looked and verified that you even have the aluminum ones?  One of mine was steel and the other aluminum.  Bout a pair of the stock steel ones for about $50 - still have the extra drivers side mount.

To be honest, I have not yet verified.  But I will, and then I'll look into eBay and other sources for the steel ones if I do have the AL ones.  If I cant find anything, then I'll order these. 

[neale_rs]

And he did not change the angles up front?  I had to rotate my rear axle for the CV shaft, but up front, there is the issue of caster to consider...

No change in angles.  Not all that critical up front.

[Matt vs YJ]

I'd just get the mounts for $99 and maybe the cradle if yours is cracked, and not worry about the motor brackets since it's a DD. You can also find a %10 off code over in the vendor section of Jeepforum

[Bounty Hunter]

I've never seen a broken cradle or engine bracket, so that's personal preference.

[DodgeMudder]

Personally when I had to swap out my motormounts th last time, I went with a pair for a 4.0l all I had to do was shorten the sleeve the bolt runs through by 1/4" or a little less with the grinder, and they fit/work great.  Was much cheaper then the fancy aftermarket ones and stronger than the stock 2.5l ones.