Author Topic: Bad hesitation when cold  (Read 7440 times)

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Steve-0

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Re: Bad hesitation when cold
« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2009, 01:41:49 AM »
Could it be the O2 sensor? I might try unpluggin it to see what it does on the way to work tomorrow.

Steve-0

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Re: Bad hesitation when cold
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2009, 10:35:29 PM »
I was just thinking about this problem and how to describe it as to possibly get better results here; It feels like there is moisture in the distributer cap. That feeling of misfire/hesitation when you get it wet. And sometimes it stumbles bad enough to drop the RPMS down about 10k. After replacing TPS, MAP and CPS (crank position sensor) as well as a fresh tune up, I am still at a loss for words. :confused: :brick:

Offline dwtaylorpdx

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Re: Bad hesitation when cold
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2009, 01:39:48 AM »
IAC valve motor on mine caused some similar issues.

Sensor inside the distributor causes these issues...

Failing alternator causes similar symptoms too.

Dave
94 YJ - 2.5 Hesco Cam B&B Ported - AX5 Trans w/Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch - 4" Rough Country Lift W/Skyjacker Shocks - D44 Rear/ARB - D30/ARB - ARB Compressor - Warn M8000 in Custom Bumper - Reunell Rear Bumper - Metalcloak 6" Body Armor Kit - Tuffy Console - 265x85-16 Tires - 2M Radio

dos0711

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Re: Bad hesitation when cold
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2009, 04:28:17 AM »
I had a similar issue and it turned out to be a bad O2 sensor...

Steve-0

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Re: Bad hesitation when cold
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2009, 08:26:00 AM »
This only happens between 2200 and 2800 RPM. And its usually when I just barely let off the gas as to not speed up. I tried to reproduce the symptoms while stationary but all I could feel/hear were mild misfires. And my Jeep is so soft without trac bars or control arms, the symptoms seem to feel worse while driving. Its annoying. Has any of your problems produced any codes? I dont have any. What sensor is in the distributor? Thats where I am leaning since it feels like a distributor issue. I guess I can also try to run it with the O2 unplugged and see if that helps.

Offline sharpxmen

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Re: Bad hesitation when cold
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2009, 09:14:23 AM »
What sensor is in the distributor? Thats where I am leaning since it feels like a distributor issue.
it's the camshaft position sensor and it is used to time the injectors (EDIT: to open them in sequence and be synced with the intake valve opening).
« Last Edit: November 07, 2009, 09:15:36 AM by sharpxmen »
'95 YJ, NSG370 6spd / Hurst shifter, Dana 300 + 4:1 Doubler / tri-stick, Custom skid, Super D35 / Auburn LSD / 4.88, 35x12.5x15 BFG KM2, 64mm t/b, 1.7 RollerRockers, MkVIII e-fan, Dual Diaph Booster
Latest: Corbeau BajaRS heated seats :dance: keeping warm the rear end

Steve-0

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Re: Bad hesitation when cold
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2009, 10:18:34 AM »
I have been trying to find a video on Youtube on how to test the cam position sensor but I cant really find one. Anyone know how I can test it with an ohm meter? What about the AIS? I think I might have twisted the shaft a bit when I was cleaning it before I put it in my 4.0 tb. Do you think that would have anything to do with the problem?

Offline sharpxmen

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Re: Bad hesitation when cold
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2009, 10:46:28 AM »
I have been trying to find a video on Youtube on how to test the cam position sensor but I cant really find one. Anyone know how I can test it with an ohm meter? What about the AIS? I think I might have twisted the shaft a bit when I was cleaning it before I put it in my 4.0 tb. Do you think that would have anything to do with the problem?
you need a needle type voltmeter,
you can find the testing procedure here: http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,7246.msg53622.html#msg53622
'95 YJ, NSG370 6spd / Hurst shifter, Dana 300 + 4:1 Doubler / tri-stick, Custom skid, Super D35 / Auburn LSD / 4.88, 35x12.5x15 BFG KM2, 64mm t/b, 1.7 RollerRockers, MkVIII e-fan, Dual Diaph Booster
Latest: Corbeau BajaRS heated seats :dance: keeping warm the rear end

Steve-0

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Re: Bad hesitation when cold
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2009, 11:11:25 AM »
WOW! That seems like those guys had a bigger problem than I have. Mine just has a little stutter at 2200 - 2800. Thats it. Not anything lower or higher in RPM. Those guys seem like they cant get it running or dies all the time. Mine runs great. Just that little problem area. I was thinking there was a way to test the cam pos sensor like the TPS, where you might be able to find that "dead" spot by turning it to increase or decrease resistance. Its obvioulsy not bad enough to pop any codes. Its under the radar I guess. Still havent tried to run it without the O2 sensor though.

Steve-0

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Re: Bad hesitation when cold
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2009, 11:59:29 AM »
Since my problem is only at specific rpm positions, do you think there is there a way I could hook up a volt meter and have someone look at the meter when it hits those bad spots? I dont know what I could hook it up to if it is the alternator, o2 sensor or cam position sensor. It isnt having the RPM drop anymore, it just "sputters" a bit during those rpm positions. And almost every time, I can throttle past it if I am accelerating. It is really noticeable when I am at a steady pace and just barely let off the gas or hold it steady when it is around the trouble rpm areas.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 12:04:18 PM by Steve-0 »

Offline sharpxmen

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Re: Bad hesitation when cold
« Reply #40 on: November 20, 2009, 12:15:18 PM »
Since my problem is only at specific rpm positions, do you think there is there a way I could hook up a volt meter and have someone look at the meter when it hits those bad spots? I dont know what I could hook it up to if it is the alternator, o2 sensor or cam position sensor.

forget about the alternator, if it would be that bad you would see it on the dash voltmeter. for O2 you need an LED based AFR gauge, any voltmeter that is either digital or needle (analog) type is simply too slow to react (the O2 reading changes back and forth 10 times per second if not more) - also, if the info on your O2 is lost there will be a CEL as well, but not if the info from the O2 is wrong (which can be if let's say you have a ground loss with the O2 sensor ground coming from the PCM) - so you could check grounds on all your sensors to the pcm sensor ground pin and see if there is any loss there. Same for the cam sensor, but i can't see how that would be your problem without throwing a code (the PCM would detect missed signals from the cam sensor while the crank still provides info) and still would not be at a specific rpm.

You could monitor the MAP with a voltmeter (i know you replaced it though) and same with the TPS but that's probably the only ones that can be read with a regular multimeter - maybe the sensors are fine but you could get a bad connection somewhere, although in that case i can't see how it would be only at that specific RPM (or maybe that's where is the most obvious)
for cam and crank sensors you need either a logging device, an oscilloscope or a scan tool.

Is there a way you could record a video of the behavior (i mean while someone else is driving or the other way around)?
'95 YJ, NSG370 6spd / Hurst shifter, Dana 300 + 4:1 Doubler / tri-stick, Custom skid, Super D35 / Auburn LSD / 4.88, 35x12.5x15 BFG KM2, 64mm t/b, 1.7 RollerRockers, MkVIII e-fan, Dual Diaph Booster
Latest: Corbeau BajaRS heated seats :dance: keeping warm the rear end

Offline dwtaylorpdx

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Re: Bad hesitation when cold
« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2009, 03:44:54 PM »
On my 94 I had a weird RPM based miss, there was no sign on
the dash / voltmeter anything that there was a problem.
After about 2 weeks of this the alt finally just died and when I
put the new alternator on  the miss was gone.

The alternator shop told me that if the brushes get tired or the spring holding the brush it
will start bouncing and arcing and it pisses the Chrysler computer off.

You could probably see it with a o-scope on the charging lead if I had one I'd try that... :)

Dave
94 YJ - 2.5 Hesco Cam B&B Ported - AX5 Trans w/Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch - 4" Rough Country Lift W/Skyjacker Shocks - D44 Rear/ARB - D30/ARB - ARB Compressor - Warn M8000 in Custom Bumper - Reunell Rear Bumper - Metalcloak 6" Body Armor Kit - Tuffy Console - 265x85-16 Tires - 2M Radio

Steve-0

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Re: Bad hesitation when cold
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2009, 08:00:50 PM »
Just an update... The hesitation has gone down a bit. I feel it mostly around 2200 RPMs but occasionally I get a backfire that feels like an intake backfire if I rev it up to shift and when the RPMs drop right at the shift, I get a little backfire feeling. But obviously that is hit or miss since it has to be at a certain RPM to do this (the same RPM that this hesitation problem exists). I havent done anything to it yet. No time.

Offline dwtaylorpdx

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Re: Bad hesitation when cold
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2009, 08:44:14 PM »
BTW I've had 2 sensors that died within a day of install, 1 TPS and 1 IAT.  :brick:

Dave
94 YJ - 2.5 Hesco Cam B&B Ported - AX5 Trans w/Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch - 4" Rough Country Lift W/Skyjacker Shocks - D44 Rear/ARB - D30/ARB - ARB Compressor - Warn M8000 in Custom Bumper - Reunell Rear Bumper - Metalcloak 6" Body Armor Kit - Tuffy Console - 265x85-16 Tires - 2M Radio

Steve-0

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Re: Bad hesitation when cold
« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2010, 11:54:54 PM »
Still havent figured out this issue. Now it seems like the dreaded bucking is coming back. I get a rpm drop between 2200 and 2800 RPM again. Its just a 5k drop but you can feel it. Like I am running out of gas (which I know the feeling cuz I did that last week too). And if I throttle through the bad spot and I just get lucky timing i get a backfire in what sounds like the intake manifold. My gut keeps pointing me toward the TPS but its new and never changed anything from the old one. But it DOES have to be in a certain throttle position and/or RPM range for it to happen. Mind boggling.  :brick: :puzzled: