Topic: 30# injectors

[yooperjeep]

I for got to add a blow off valve to the list

[sharpxmen]

I run water/methanol injection for a number of reasons; chemical intercooling, works at any speed, inexpensive octane booster, detonation control, just to name a few. I control it with an adjustable boost activated switch which obviously kicks in whenever I reach my activation pressure (climbing the Coquihalla connector its always on). As I mentioned in my thread, I set out to turbo my YJ as cheaply as possible. So I tried the GM 2 Bar MAP, which as I mentioned the Jeep ECU cannot read. I also tried map clamps and check valves and bleeders but I wanted my setup to be smooth and reliable, hence the Split Second PSC1-002 (ECU has no idea its running a forced induction engine).The PSC1 is the most expensive part of my setup but well worth the $, I have run it for approx. two years now and am quite familiar with how it works and how to program it. IMHO the OBD1 system, along with the PSC1, Hesco AFPR and a H20/Methanol injection system, there is no need for injectors larger than 30lb or timing retard. My YJ is my DD and except for the power it starts, idles and runs like it did without the turbo even when its -25*to -30*F.

thanks and that covers the timing, but it doesn't mean is the only way to do it. i took the time to explain and give him some options that i know about, it doesn't mean that i disagree with you especially that was an answer to his post/question (i was not addressing your setup), so my point being you can voice your opinion but you don't have to put down what i say.

[yooperjeep]

people have obviously had success using both methods. I like the idea of the split second set up because I can have more control over the MAP and can tell exactly what is going on. If I were more experienced and knowledgable with turbo set-ups I would probably venture into trying the other method of adjusting the system with the FPR and MAP. I think that the Split Second will really help me learn alot about tuning with its computer interface, so I will probably go that route.

Sharpxmen, Thanks for really taking the time to explain all of this stuff to me, it really has helped. I think that because of this I will understand what I will be doing when tuning better.

 Once I gather all my parts I will start my build thread and I am sure I am going to need Lots of help!!!! If you have anymore suggestions PLEASE let me know!

[sharpxmen]

people have obviously had success using both methods. I like the idea of the split second set up because I can have more control over the MAP and can tell exactly what is going on. If I were more experienced and knowledgable with turbo set-ups I would probably venture into trying the other method of adjusting the system with the FPR and MAP. I think that the Split Second will really help me learn alot about tuning with its computer interface, so I will probably go that route.

Sharpxmen, Thanks for really taking the time to explain all of this stuff to me, it really has helped. I think that because of this I will understand what I will be doing when tuning better.

 Once I gather all my parts I will start my build thread and I am sure I am going to need Lots of help!!!! If you have anymore suggestions PLEASE let me know!

for sure the split second is the better way to go, i have one myself (already has a built in 2 bar map). if you buy one i know they have a model that also adjusts the o2 output so you can trick the ecu in closed loop as well - but that depends of your setup and i mean that if your turbo only kicks in at high rpm then you most likely don't need it (in my case with a s/c i see boost lot sooner so I should've thought of that before hand, but i plan to give it more fuel by using the programmable o2 wideband from innovate which also logs the afr - you might want to look into that as well so you can log your o2 output when you're at the tunning stage of your setup; it has analog outputs that also allow to completely replace your stock o2, so you kill 2 birds with 1 stone).

[yooperjeep]

How much do these wideband O2 systems cost? Unless it is on the cheap I dont think that I can swing it right now.

[sharpxmen]

How much do these wideband O2 systems cost? Unless it is on the cheap I dont think that I can swing it right now.

I got it a while ago and i think was cheaper than what is listed today ($199) - LC1 is the one you need at the minimum - you can hook it up to your laptop and program it and also record your AFR history http://www.tuneyourengine.com - but this will only be needed once you have all the other stuff installed, so you have time. At the minimum you should have a gauge that shows the AFR from your stock o2 but it is harder to figure out how much more or less fuel you need since is a narrow band, and no history to look thru. if you consider that an AFR gauge is about $50, plus an o2 sensor at around $80 - the $199 doesn't seem that much (but in this case it will display the AFR on a laptop, so it won't be a permanent install) - it helps a lot with tuning, but as i said you can start w/o it and if you really need it get one later (there are others out there too, this is just the one i used).

[st.chevrolet]

thanks and that covers the timing, but it doesn't mean is the only way to do it. i took the time to explain and give him some options that i know about, it doesn't mean that i disagree with you especially that was an answer to his post/question (i was not addressing your setup), so my point being you can voice your opinion but you don't have to put down what i say.

First of all I am not putting down what you said, what you have stated in your posts is very informative and helpful for anyone interested in going with forced induction. And I know thats not the only way to address timing. What I am saying is, try your PSC1 with an intercooler and proper sized injectors and see where your at, before getting into timing. You will be surprised what you can do with the programmable MAPs. My setup runs very well with the highest octane gas, however the water/meth. allows me to run the lowest octane gas and actually run better and safer. The ideal setup would be an intercooler & water/meth. for hot days when you are out wheeling and your intercooler is not getting much air flow because of slow speeds and is also getting a little plugged up with mud etc. With the exception of the pump its easy to build your own water/meth. injection setup unless you want the computer operated setups $$$. My build is supposed to be a budget build and simple, and except for the PSC1, the fuel pressure reg. and the pump for the water/meth. I think I have kept it fairly reasonable, simple and very functional.

[sharpxmen]

First of all I am not putting down what you said, what you have stated in your posts is very informative and helpful for anyone interested in going with forced induction. And I know thats not the only way to address timing. What I am saying is, try your PSC1 with an intercooler and proper sized injectors and see where your at, before getting into timing. You will be surprised what you can do with the programmable MAPs. My setup runs very well with the highest octane gas, however the water/meth. allows me to run the lowest octane gas and actually run better and safer. The ideal setup would be an intercooler & water/meth. for hot days when you are out wheeling and your intercooler is not getting much air flow because of slow speeds and is also getting a little plugged up with mud etc. With the exception of the pump its easy to build your own water/meth. injection setup unless you want the computer operated setups $$$. My build is supposed to be a budget build and simple, and except for the PSC1, the fuel pressure reg. and the pump for the water/meth. I think I have kept it fairly reasonable, simple and very functional.

ok, cool - thanks for the clarification and for the info on the water/meth info, appreciate the reply

[st.chevrolet]

You might find the info on this site a good read.  www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com   
click on  116+ Octane with water injection

[yooperjeep]

Thanks again for all the info. I guess that I have alot of reading and research to do. I still have alot of questions about the water/meth. injection set-up. Does it actually pay off to run a water/meth. set up instead of just going to premium gas? I guess the things I would like to know are the water/meth. ratios, the cost of the methanol (or whatever you use), and the ratio of water/meth to gallon of gas (on average). I am going to continue to do some research, but any 2.5l specific info you guys have would be extremely benificial.

[st.chevrolet]

St. Chevrelet, Did you do a write up on how you set up your water injection system on here? I read your turbo build but didnt really see anything about the water injection (I could have missed it). So given that I am pretty content on buying the split second system, I just want to make sure I have a pretty good idea of everything I .need to begin gathering parts for my turbo build:

Turbo (Already have from a Volvo S40)
Split Second  PSC1
Hesco (other makers?) Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator
30# injectors
Electric Fan conversion
Water injection (I dont really want an intercooler if I dont need one)
Misc plumbing and exhaust

If you can think of anything else just let me know as I am pretty new to all of this (I have only owned my jeep for about 3 weeks). Thanks again for all of your help!

Sorry I did not reply to this post earlier!
No I did not do a write up about the water/methanol injection, but you can see the injector on the intake tube in my pics. I used the Split Second PSC1-002 as it provides all the features I required, 2Bar MAP, programmable etc. I did not feel I needed timing control and have since found I do not. Like I said before my ECU has no idea it is running a forced induction engine.The reason I used the Hesco AFPR is that it just plugs in where the stock reg. goes, nothing else required. With the highest octane gas I can get (94) I still get pinging, with the lower octane gas and water/methanol I have more power and no pinging. I use winter windshield washer fluid which is good for -56*F. You can mix your own but do not go lower than 50/50. With the water/meth. I have had no reason to have an intercooler. A good selection of water/meth. injection nozzles is www.alcohol-injection.com. As far as the elec./fan go with the 2 spd. fan off of a 3.8L Ford Taurus or Mercury Sable, I paid $18 for mine @ a PNP.
If you would like more info or pics PM me your email.

[yooperjeep]

Ok, I have a few more questions about water/meth. injection. I read that the amount of water/meth. you should inject roughly 15% the amount of gas you inject..... does this sound right with what you run? I was also wondering what you use to control the extra injector on your intake and how you hooked it up. Right now I am trying to decide what route I want to to I guess because with water/meth injection I can easily add about $.10 per gallon of gas to account for the water/meth. I am injecting. On the other hand I can go with an intercooler, spend $.10 - $.20 more per gallon and buy a higher grade of gas and just live with a little bit of pinging  but loose the annoyance of having to add the water/meth. mixture all the time. If I were to stop at only 6psi of boost and ran an intercooler, could I get away with just using mid-grade and not get pinging? Or could I use an intercooler, add only 5% water/meth to my gas and get away with 87 octane? I guess I am just trying to find the most economical way to use this as a daily driver (60 miles a day). Please let me know what you think.