Author Topic: Balance those tires  (Read 2500 times)

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officer mike

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Balance those tires
« on: March 26, 2007, 05:09:18 PM »
Hey guys, I am about to have my 35s mounted and balanced and I have heard good things about putting BBs in the tire before mounting them. I kno for my tire size I need 8oz a tire. my question is should i buy the metal ones or the plastic airsoft? thanks guys. Mike

Offline oldjeep

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Re: Balance those tires
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2007, 07:27:56 AM »
Neither one.  Airsoft pellets disintigrate eventually and the bb's rust.  DynaBeads are ceramic and designed for tire balancing.  Couple of daily drivers in my club use them, and I've got a batch sitting on the workbench to put in my tires.  http://www.innovativebalancing.com/

One recommendation I got was that it usually takes more than the chart shows.  35's are supposed to take 8oz, and they needed to run 10-12oz to get a good balance.  It helps if you can find a local garage to test your balance on at least 1 tire to see if you need more.
Chuck P
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Offline Jeffy

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Re: Balance those tires
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2007, 11:58:20 AM »
What brand 35's are they?  Most 35's will take a normal dual or single plane balance without trouble.  It's when you get over 35's that they get difficult to balance.  This is especially true with Interco tires.  When you consider a wheel might take 4oz tops to balance each tire, adding 8 or 10-12 is just more weight.  If you get the tires balanced on a single plane, all of the weights will be on the inside so they are a bit less likely to get scraped off.

I've hear people use golf balls to dynamically balance their tires as well.  I think a friend of mine runs them.  These are tires that can't take a normal balance. I think they're bias ply 38's.   You can hear them bounce around in the tire when you stop or accelerate.  Equal was one of the first medias I can remember being used.
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Offline oldjeep

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Re: Balance those tires
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2007, 12:36:01 PM »
Golf balls tned to crack over time:


A couple of the local guys have tried Equal, but found that even with filtered cores that it tends to clump from the moisture after a bunch of air up/down cycles.
Chuck P
The clowns'? Oh, yeah, the clowns. We fight them too — entire armies, spilling out of Volkswagons. We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending 'em in!
94 YJ - gone
98 ZJ - sons truck
97 TJ - daughters project

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Complete Loser

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Re: Balance those tires
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2010, 09:44:14 AM »
Old thread. But i bet ceramic micro beads will work good. I mix those with epoxy paint to make a spray on sound deadener (same as lizard skin).
They are called many different names. Glass balloons, glass beads, micro beads, etc etc. I think you can find them on ebay.
They will probably break down to a point, but glass being heavy, they shouldnt powder up and float out the valve stem.
And being denser than equal, golf balls, BB's, you can use less volume to achieve the same weight.

Also, instead of these dry methods, wouldnt it work to use those tire sealants like SLIME in place of BB's or other dry media?

Just thoughts.

Offline Bounty Hunter

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Re: Balance those tires
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2010, 11:00:13 AM »
They make a liquid tire balancer now similar to the tire slime, doesn't freeze or promote rust.  I use dynabeads on my Swampers with great results.

I'd recommend a traditional balance, then adding a little bit of internal balance media for good measure, like when you're done wheeling and have mud caked to the wheel.  The heavy airsoft BB's almost seem like a ceramic.

Complete Loser

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Re: Balance those tires
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2010, 11:35:29 AM »

Complete Loser

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Re: Balance those tires
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2010, 11:35:51 AM »
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/WheelBalance/index.shtml
Wheel Balancing, some background:

Wheel/tire combinations can be balanced in many different ways, including static and dynamic, on and off vehicle, as well and various types of permanent balancing systems.

Static Balance:

Also known as "bubble balancing" uses a fairly inexpensive machine to balance the wheel/tire assembly at rest using a bubble level as an indicator. This technique takes some operator skill to perform good balancing as you need to carefully split the balancing weights on the inside and outside of the wheel to avoid dynamic imbalance.
Dynamic Balance:

Also known as "spin balancing" can be done either on or off the vehicle. The majority of tires are probably balanced on computerized spin balancers. After clamping the wheel on the machine, setting the wheel dimensions, it spins up and calculates the locations and amount of weight to apply to the rim to correct the balance. Most spin balancers center the wheel on a cone-shaped mounting device. This works fine for vehicles that locate the wheel on the vehicle via the hub (i.e. "hub-centric"). For vehicles, like Toyota, that locate the wheel on the hub via the lug nuts (i.e. "lug-centric") a special lug-centric adapter should be used to properly balance the wheel. On vehicle balancers avoid this problem, spinning up the wheel in place.
In either case, there are several types of balancing weight that can be used, depending on the application. The most common weight is a clip-on lead weight attached to the lip of the rim. As mentioned above, clip-on weights on the outside of the rim are prone to being scraped off in the rocks. They also may not be suitable for certain alloy wheels. Adhesive backed weights are another option and have the advantage that they can be placed in the center of the wheel, if needed. But once again, they are prone to being scraped off in mud, snow and sand.
Weights on the wheel have an inherent problem due to the wheel/tire geometry. Since the imbalance is probably located out at the tire tread, it has more affect on balance than an equal weight located at the rim radius. For example on a 33x15 tire, an ounce of imbalance at the tread (16.5" radius) would require over 2 ounces of weight on the rim to correct (16.5/7.5x1oz.=2.2oz.). A more effective (and expensive) method of balancing a tire involve the application of heavy rubber patches to the inside of the tire. This has the advantage that less weight is needed and the weight is safe from rocks and tire spinning, but the tire must be repeatedly mounted, spun, and dis-mounted to balance.
Another form of dynamic balancing involves shaving rubber from the tire to achieve balance. This is very helpful in cases where tires are physically out of round (as was the case with my Swamper TSL/SX tires). However, it can involve the removal of significant amounts of tread and is more expensive than balancing with weights. Some tire chain stores offer this service, but only up to about 31" diameter tires. Shops that deal with large trucks and tractors often have on-vehicle tire shavers that can be used for this purpose.
Permanent Balancing:

Several options exist for permanent wheel balancing. These include liquid and dry powder weight added to the inside of the tire and external weighted balancing rings the clamp between the wheel and hub. Both these options are commonly used for over-the-highway trucks, where tires can last 100,000 miles or longer. Frequent off-vehicle balancing costs could add up over the lifetime of the tire. One popular dry powder balancing product is known as Equal. Installation of the balancing material is done on a deflated tire, using a special tool to inject the powder into the valve stem. Alternately, it can be placed in the tire prior to mounting. Proper technique must be observed to keep water out, including being careful with liquid tire mounting lubricant and use of dry air for inflation. For a tire used in off-road situations, where frequent air-down/up cycles are common, user's may want to consider adding an air dryer to their on-board air system. Both liquid and powder in-tire balancers can cause problems with clogged valve stems, too.
The other option for permanent balancing is the external, or wheel-mounted balancing rings. There are two designs common in North America, one is Sun-Tech Innovations and the other is Centramatic. Sun-Tech uses liquid mercury as the balancing medium while Centramatic uses steel shot in oil. In either case, the balancers work by making use of centrifugal force to distribute the weight inside the tube to compensate for dynamic tire balance as it rotates. Assume some excess tread weight is present at one point on the tire. As it rotates, this causes an acceleration of the wheel and tire in the direction of the heavy spot. The balancing medium in the tube will flow away from this acceleration until such time as the out of balance situation is corrected. The centrifugal force holds the weight against the outside of the balancing tube. Since the balancing tube is located inside the rim, it is closer to the center of the wheel. These balancers require a certain speed threshold to activate, usually around 20-25 MPH. Below that speed, tire balance is probably not an issue. Several advantages of this type of balancer for off-roading is that they automatically compensate for tires that spin on the rim, or tread that gets chucked on sharp rocks, and are tucked safely away from trail damage inside the rim. Drawbacks are that the balancers have a fixed amount of balance medium and can only correct balance to that limit, on the order of 12 oz. of lead. Also, like external weights, the balancer operates at a smaller radius than the tire, making it progressively less effective as the tire diameter increases for a give wheel diameter.
Hub-Centric:
A hub and wheel design in which the wheel is centered on a raised center portion of the hub. The lug nuts/bolts then serve only to hold the wheel in place on the hub. Most tire balancing machines use a conical wheel mounting mechanism to locate the wheel/tire on the machine for balancing.
Lug-Centric:
A hub and wheel design in which the wheel is centered by the lug nuts/bolts themselves, often with clearance between the center of the hub and the cut out in the wheel. Toyota wheels are lug-centric and as such require a special lug-centric fixture to be properly balanced on a cone-type balancing machine, as the wheel center hole may not be exactly centered on the lug center point.

Complete Loser

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Re: Balance those tires
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2010, 11:38:48 AM »

Complete Loser

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Re: Balance those tires
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2010, 11:43:58 AM »
http://dynabeads.net/

Dynabeads


I would like to check out some of these beads. I bet thats what i have several pounds of laying around. :)

jdarg

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Re: Balance those tires
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2010, 02:30:36 PM »
My .02...

On my LJ I once tried ceramic beads in a set of 31" MT/Rs with the weights still on the rim and they made it worse. I removed the weights and it would death wobble at 40 so bad I couldn't drive it. Back to shop to have the beads removed and real weights put on. No more issues.

On my YJ I tried BBs on a new set of tires. It was horrible above 50. Went to conventional weights and runs relatively good to the limits of the motor/gearing, about 75 on a rare day. This is on LTBs, too.

Beads and BBs have never worked better for me, even vs. crappy dynamic balance job with weights around half the wheel. I'd love to try centramatics but I've already wasted a lot of money on internal balancing.