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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: Jacob1 on June 03, 2012, 07:28:01 PM
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So here is the run down. I've got a 95 RIO, 5 speed. Like a :asshat: I put 33's on it. So, now the thing will barely get outta its own way. A re-gear is outta the question right now. It has no cat (PO). So, I have a slightly used flowmaster 44 I am going to throw on it, and I am thinking the 4.0 TB. But which one do I need? I see lots of conflicting info. Am I going to see an increase? I maybe have $50-75 to work with- yeah I'm tight. Help is appreciated.
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Check the FAQ's.
Thius one is on the throttlebody swap.
http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,8.0.html
But not much besides a gear change will really help. Going the Electric fan does help some.
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Check the FAQ's.
Thius one is on the throttlebody swap.
http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,8.0.html
But not much besides a gear change will really help. Going the Electric fan does help some.
Thanks, yeah, I have one laying around somewhere I think, pretty sure. I just find it hard to believe these motors can't be made to make more power with traditional upgrades. But I come from a V8/ streetrod, musclecar background. Thanks.
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Thanks, yeah, I have one laying around somewhere I think, pretty sure. I just find it hard to believe these motors can't be made to make more power with traditional upgrades. But I come from a V8/ streetrod, musclecar background. Thanks.
what do you mean by traditional upgrades?
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Regear it. It will makes the biggest difference.
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Thanks, yeah, I have one laying around somewhere I think, pretty sure. I just find it hard to believe these motors can't be made to make more power with traditional upgrades. But I come from a V8/ streetrod, musclecar background. Thanks.
nevermind the previous question,
yes, you can make more power with a high flow filter, remove the restrictor tube in the airbox when you upgrade the filter, 4.0L t/b or larger, higer fuel pressure and/or larger injectors, cam/valve springs, higher compression. With all that and a good cam you can probably get an extra 25HP at the wheels
e-fan will free up some ponies when not running
gears will give you the most pep from standstill/in acceleration (back to stock like if you go 4.88)
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$50-75 is real tight to work with and not really enough to make a difference. I used to buy into those "HP increase" gadgets and installed a few on my jeep, but unless you do anything major: supercharger, turbo, engine overhaul,piston/cylinder work etc, you aren't going to feel any difference with just a few gadgets and much less for anything in the $50-75 range. I have currently installed the following on my jeep: AEM cold air intake ($200), 62mm throttle body (~$60), throttle body spacer (~$40), Banks header and cat back monster exhaust ($400), Random Tech high flow cat (~$150), all those upgrades came with hp/torque increase claims and increased mpg claims and in the end, i think i netted 1-2mpg better (that was really the AEM more than anything) and prob picked up 10 hp if that. Trust me, you won't feel ANY difference and it's all mostly a waste of money. All those products seem to work well on the 6cyl as i have friends who run a combo of all of those and their engines seem to do much better, but that may be due to the larger displacement and power available to them. If you want more power out of that 4banger you're going to have to turbo, supercharge or other heavy engine mods, and of course you can top it off with the parts i listed above. Cheapest and most financially effective way to regain that power loss is probably to regear. By that I mean even though it costs more to regear front and rear axles than it does to buy all the stuff i listed, you will actually gain something from it.
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A regear is in the future, just not now. I am NOT going to dump money into the crap-tacular stock axles. Its not going to happen. The fan is free, the muffler is free. The intake and spacer will eat up my "budget" but seems like will actually do some good. Anyway, I appreciate what you all are saying about the re-gear, and I get it. The cost for full width axles is just not there for me right now. But, back to the topic at hand, will these items make a noted difference, or do I just throw in the towel for now?
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they make a difference but it will not blow your socks off - if you're on a budget skip the spacer, not worth it imo, very little increase if any.
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A regear is in the future, just not now. I am NOT going to dump money into the crap-tacular stock axles. Its not going to happen. The fan is free, the muffler is free. The intake and spacer will eat up my "budget" but seems like will actually do some good. Anyway, I appreciate what you all are saying about the re-gear, and I get it. The cost for full width axles is just not there for me right now. But, back to the topic at hand, will these items make a noted difference, or do I just throw in the towel for now?
exhaust, tb, cold air intake...yes, it all helps technically as you are improving flow but the results are so minimal you may as well save your money. You will not notice much of a difference if any. As i said, the only difference i noted was in the AEM intake where i believe i may have gained 1-2 mpg. All the rest of the stuff make more "sound/noise" that maybe would lead you to think you just gained a bunch of power, but it really hasn't changed much. If you're able to get a good cold air intake, throttle body and spacer for $75 then I would say go for it. But the reality is they cost much more than that and they really don't make that much of a difference to justify the money spent, esp if you are on a tight budget. Save your $$, do the regear, build up the motor and add those parts when you are done...or just swap the motor out outright.
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exhaust, tb, cold air intake...yes, it all helps technically as you are improving flow but the results are so minimal you may as well save your money. You will not notice much of a difference if any. As i said, the only difference i noted was in the AEM intake where i believe i may have gained 1-2 mpg. All the rest of the stuff make more "sound/noise" that maybe would lead you to think you just gained a bunch of power, but it really hasn't changed much. If you're able to get a good cold air intake, throttle body and spacer for $75 then I would say go for it. But the reality is they cost much more than that and they really don't make that much of a difference to justify the money spent, esp if you are on a tight budget. Save your $$, do the regear, build up the motor and add those parts when you are done...or just swap the motor out outright.
Swap it? really? yeah, thats what I hear everywhere else. Didn't really expect that here at "4banger". LOL :brick:
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they make a difference but it will not blow your socks off - if you're on a budget skip the spacer, not worth it imo, very little increase if any.
THANKS! Yeah, I know its not gonna be a ton, but I do appreciate the honesty. I think I got my hopes up when I read "Most productive thread ever" in FAQs
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I'm not sure how the muffler will do anything. It's a Series 44 which I think is similar to the Series 40, I used to have. It was too big and you give up low-end torque for high end HP. I think the proper muffler for a 4banger is a series 60. I'm certain the series 44 will be loud.
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yeah, I double checked the muffler. It aint a 44. I think it is a 60 series. Its pretty quiet.
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Swap it? really? yeah, thats what I hear everywhere else. Didn't really expect that here at "4banger". LOL :brick:
I like my 4banger, does great off road but I am no longer fooled by go fast/power increase gadgets. The best thing you can do is regear. Dont waste your time and money on the rest cause they wont create enough of a change and you'll be left wondering why you even spent the cash. Like i said before, i bought a lot of those parts and they still are on the jeep: AEM intake, banks header+ exhaust, high flow cat, TB, tb spacer....thats over $800 worth of stuff, not including the fact I used to have a Dynomax cat back "Super Turbo" exhaust that was nothing but loud, loud, loud and a year later rusted. Those $800 gave me a few more ponies and 1-2 mpg increase. I assume the HP went up a hair, but nothing i could feel.
Dunno what to tell ya bud, you want more power out of that jeep: regear, build up or swap out. I used to want to build up the motor like a handful of our members have done with superchargers or turbos...and then I found the 1.9l diesel swap and that's what I'm doing.
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The tbi system on my jeep is abit of a different animal than mpfi but on my jeep the electric fan gave a decent increase for the cost when using a junkyard fan. The bored tb gave me a larger boost than expected (can cruse at 65 70 with 80% throttle instead of wot and a decent increase in fuel economy) but then again the tbi bore starts smaller than the mpfi system does so it was more restricted to begin with. so don't get too discouraged but don't expect miracles
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yikes, that is a stiff budget. My vote is to save it for gas until you can afford the re-gear. I am on the fence with the TB. On a stock engine along with other supporting mods I see it helping at highway speeds. Other than that an e-fan is your best bet to free up some ponies. also pick up some injectors from a mustang if you do the TB mod.
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unless his injectors are shot the Mustang ones will not to anything for power increase, 4.0 t/b def helps but that's only if you get rid of the velocity insert in the airbox and use a high flow filter.
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I dunno guys, i installed a bunch of those instant power, just-add-jeep parts: AEM intake, banks header/cat back, high flow cat, 62mm TB, TB spacer and for what that all cost, it didn't come near what a regear gave. The gains were minute at best. Maybe my motor is just plain crappy and lazy, im not discrediting the guys who are posting they got good results, but in my personal case, the changes were barely noticed and def not worth the cash. I went from 3.73 to 4.56 and felt a difference there, and to be honest i think i had siked myself up to feeling a bigger difference, cause it took a bit for me to really appreciate the full change from stock gear to 4.56.
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For those saying the add on power mods did not work for you. What size tires were you running. And what was your original gearing.
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I can say for sure the one that was most obvious to me from the basic swaps was the 4.0L t/b and high flow filter, i did the gearing long after so i can't compare the 2, they both yield gains or seat of the pants feel, on the 4.0 t/b and airfilter was that i was actually able to see some speed increase in 4th (with the stock 4.10 and 33s) whereas before it was a constant shifting between 3rd and 4th on any slight change in wind or even the slightest uphill - that's what i remember anyway. Of course a week or so later it felt like nothing was changed, but so it felt after the gearing change, it's what you get used to as there's no metrics to really gauge the increase (feel vs some numerical dyno results)
the other thing that shadows any gains is that highway speeds, wind and hills (by the means of no aerodynamic considerations, large frontal areal, lift that adds to this and also weight gained by adding armor, whinches, larger tires/wheel, roof racks, etc) are really the ones hurting us the most, since a 10% increase in HP would probably mean a 1 or 2 mph increase at top speed you'll rarely see the benefit in it. On the other hand with the gearing the rpm increases in the same gear for the same speed and therefore the powerband which you're in is more favorable, so if you compare 3000rpm to 3500 rpm you might be at 50 vs 60 HP output at wot (for the same speed) which is 10HP or 20% increase if you compare the 2, on the other hand with a t/b and airfilter your gains are more significant at over 4000 rpm since better volumetric efficiency is relevant at higher required airflow and piston speeds - and let's say you get 5% increase at max power output (6 HP for a 120HP engine), it's a lot less to evaluate when you're at a lower rpm trying to increase speed.
So even though the gearing won't gain you any HP it will provide more HP to the wheels at the same speed in the same gear, but it is more expensive and more involved than a simple t/b and airfilter + airbox mod.
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Ok here is my reason for asking. I'm running 4.10 gears Factory, tires I did not go overboard with and am running 31.5's. So those little Mods of Filter, Inj's, 62 MM throttle Body and spacer, Exhaust, Spark coil and wires, and Elect Fan. Have really helped to make the jeep More Drivable. Way less downshifts from 5th to 4th.
Now If I had the 3.73 or say 33's then maybe I would not be able to feel a difference. I also know if I do go larger on the tires I really will need to regear.
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The tbi system on my jeep is abit of a different animal than mpfi but on my jeep the electric fan gave a decent increase for the cost when using a junkyard fan. The bored tb gave me a larger boost than expected (can cruse at 65 70 with 80% throttle instead of wot and a decent increase in fuel economy) but then again the tbi bore starts smaller than the mpfi system does so it was more restricted to begin with. so don't get too discouraged but don't expect miracles
before selling my jeep this morning :'(. i took the electric fan off (amounts other removable mods) and i will say the fan makes a noticeable difference especially in the higher rpms. with the electric and larger tb it would pull good through 5 grand. after putting the mechanical fan back on it tapers off after 4k.
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before selling my jeep this morning :'(. i took the electric fan off (amounts other removable mods) and i will say the fan makes a noticeable difference especially in the higher rpms. with the electric and larger tb it would pull good through 5 grand. after putting the mechanical fan back on it tapers off after 4k.
why would you do such a thing? (sell the Jeep not talking about the e-fan)
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why would you do such a thing? (sell the Jeep not talking about the e-fan)
His signature mentions a jk rubicon. I'm seriously considering selling mine as well and getting a 6 cyl. Can't kid myself any longer that this 4 cyl is fit for hywy driving...
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why would you do such a thing? (sell the Jeep not talking about the e-fan)
I'm gonna say it's his only vehicle and he's wanting to daily it. A JK Rubicon is a smart move. You can drive it anywhere and not feel tired because of the added comfort. I think if I had one, I'd move up to 33's and maybe a 3" lift. Nothing too big. Although my GF and family won't let me sell my Jeep.
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I'm gonna say it's his only vehicle and he's wanting to daily it. A JK Rubicon is a smart move. You can drive it anywhere and not feel tired because of the added comfort. I think if I had one, I'd move up to 33's and maybe a 3" lift. Nothing too big. Although my GF and family won't let me sell my Jeep.
actually was the opposite with my family, They wanted me to sell the yj for the last 3 years. I actually have a 04 gc that I acquired from my family for daily driving (I know lucky sob). The main reason for selling the yj was the onset of rot at the rear of the frame (classic yj frame rust area) and a bunch of other little things that would need to be dealt with in the next 5 years. The yj could keep up on the highway commute (not many hills in mn) but it had a recurring clutch slave cyl problem that got very unnerving. If i rebuilt the 2.5l and changed to external slave I would have felt comfortable daily driving on the highway but then I would have needed a real top.... For what it was the yj was a great jeep 4 banger and all (has lasted 161 miles and 22 years including having 6 of those years under a guy that didn't believe in vehicle maintenance).
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So the JK is a toy?
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A regear is in the future, just not now. I am NOT going to dump money into the crap-tacular stock axles. Its not going to happen. The fan is free, the muffler is free. The intake and spacer will eat up my "budget" but seems like will actually do some good. Anyway, I appreciate what you all are saying about the re-gear, and I get it. The cost for full width axles is just not there for me right now. But, back to the topic at hand, will these items make a noted difference, or do I just throw in the towel for now?
It's worthwhile to bore out the intake manifold to get it equal to the diameter of whatever larger TB you might use -- 4.0L, 62mm or larger version of that. I got a used 4banger intake manifold off ebay for $25 and had a shop sandblast it and bore it out to 62mm for under $100 (had a second shop ceramic coat it with Jet-Hot or some other non-spray-can ceramic coating, but that pushed the total cost up).
Anyway, if you've got an intake, spacer, and larger TB, you really need to bore out the intake manifold. Otherwise, the intake manifold is little bit of a bottle-neck -- particularly at higher RPMs at WOT
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For those saying the add on power mods did not work for you. What size tires were you running. And what was your original gearing.
Update: Did the electric fan, the flowmaster (on hand, both), basic tuneup (plugs, wires, air fliter, cap and rotor) and the 4.0 tb. I gasket matched the intake, and changed over sensors. TB was by FAR the most noticable mod. It was also the last, so it was standing on their sholders. It will actually accelerate at a good pace in 4th uphill. I also had removed the airbox restrictors.
All the nay-sayers can say what they will, this stuff works, as I was certain it would. Breathe in better, out better, and more power will be the result. Period. Its still no rocketship, but more enjoyable to drive. I hope if someone is debating on spending the $35, (my cost) I'd say GO FOR IT! you will be pleasently surprised if your realistic. :dance:
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If you add a thermostatic switch to the electric fan, you'll probably see more of a difference. The engine will also warm up faster as well.