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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: dexetr30 on April 02, 2013, 07:02:47 AM
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My wife was on her way to work today when the check engine light started flashing. Soon after the engine started running rough. Checked the codes and nothing. It's a 2002 with a 2.5 and an auto trans. I recently (late last week) replaced the cylinder head, exhaust manifold and the radiator. Any ideas? Some help would be greatly appreciated.
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One thing I forgot to mention (and temporarily forgot altogether) is that yesterday I thought I had heard a ticking sound coming from the distributor side of the motor. Very faint but definitely there. Sounded exactly like a plug wire was arching/shorting out. I wiggled the plug wires around a bit and changed their positioning so they weren't so close. Now today, this.
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if the CEL came on and started to run rough there should be a code stored, i've seen OBDII not displaying the codes but can be read with a scanner (happened to our Caliber). Otherwise there's little to go by from your description, since you mentioned the distributor i'd say start with ignition components from coil onwards, make sure there's no corrosion and if you didn't do it recently replace wires, cap, rotor and plugs
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In addition, you can pull the plug and coil wires (by the boot) and check the resistance of each wire if you have a meter. Higher resistance on a particular wire indicates a problem. You can also run the motor at night with the hood open and look for arching.
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In addition, you can pull the plug and coil wires (by the boot) and check the resistance of each wire if you have a meter. Higher resistance on a particular wire indicates a problem. You can also run the motor at night with the hood open and look for arching.
X2 on running it in the dark. Have found bad plug wires that way before.
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I'll be back in possession of the Jeep shortly. I'm going to give it a going over and I'll post what I find (if anything) once I do. Thanks to everyone who has responded so far.
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the cap/rotor, wires and plugs are so cheap that i would just replace them (unless you recently did that).
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I recently replaced the cap, rotor, wires and plugs.
Pulled the codes. The only thing showing is P0201. Bad injector? Where to go from here?
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I recently replaced the cap, rotor, wires and plugs.
Pulled the codes. The only thing showing is P0201. Bad injector? Where to go from here?
Check the connectors at the top of each injector. Reseat each one. Check for broken clips on the connectors.
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Check the connectors at the top of each injector. Reseat each one. Check for broken clips on the connectors.
Here's what I did.
I removed the injector and moved it over one position on the fuel rail. So, I swapped the first injector for the second.
Put everything back together and fired it up. Still ran lumpy. I turned the engine off and checked for codes again. Now the codes are reading P0202 and P0320. What's the deal?
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Looks like one injector is bad first of all. And maybe your crankshaft sensor is bad too, but it would be better to just fix the injector first.
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Could a bad CPS cause an injector to misfire and throw the P0202 code along with the code for the CPS?
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no, crank sensor problem should not trigger an injector code - the most likely problem is what Jeffy suggested as in the connector, if that's not it then it's the injector itself
you did keep the connector 1 to cyl 1, right? (do not swap connectors, the injectors are timed based on the intake valve opening)
changing the position for the injectors won't make it run better if the injector is at fault.
one test you can do - pull the plugs on the injectors 1 by 1 and see the one which has the least impact then that's the one with the problem, check the connector on that injector and even measure it with a multimeter (compare with the other ones, if it's bad would be easy to tell - if you get an injector code then it's an electrical problem something like an open circuit when activating the injector or no load on that circuit to be more specific, the PCM won't know if it's plugged - in this case you'd get a "too rich correction factor" code as in the O2 detected an extremely lean status).
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The first code was for injector 1, then the code changed to injector 2. Seems that injector is bad.
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The first code was for injector 1, then the code changed to injector 2. Seems that injector is bad.
missed that [oops] then for sure that injector is the problem so scratch what i said about tesing it.
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I swapped only the injector. I kept the plug in the original position, where it's supposed to be. The reason I did that was to see if the injector code changed. It did. It went from p0201 to p0202. So, that leads me to believe that it's the injector and not the plug. I'll pull each plug one by one in the morning to see what happens.
Thanks. :thumbsup:
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Still, I'm left scratching my head in regards to the CPS code. The Jeep runs, albeit poorly. Every time I've had a bad CPS, the Jeep wouldn't run.
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My Neon has had crankshaft codes twice and still ran just fine. Also, the second time it happened, the actual problem was the CAMSHAFT sensor (which is known to go bad on Neons pretty often). The mechanic tried both and it turned out to be the cam sensor, he was nice enough to charge only for the one that solved the problem.
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I put a new injector in the # 2 position and fired it up. Still missing/running lumpy. So I took it for roughly a 2 mile ride and then pulled it back into my shop. Shut it off and checked the codes. P0204. So, the injector problem has moved from position #2 to position #4. I had a SEVERE overheating incident that lead to me changing the head, exhaust manifold and radiator about a week and a half ago. I'm wondering, since the injectors sit so close to the exhaust manifold, could excessive heat damaged the injectors?
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Also, the CPS code P0320 has now disappeared.
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Might as well replace all of the injectors.
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I just got back from NAPA. They had one left in stock and the remaining two will be available for pick-up first thing in the a.m. tomorrow. Hopefully this will be the end of my troubles for a while. Thanks to everyone who has responded so far.
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i doubt the heat from the head damaged the injectors but stranger things have happened (i mean it would have had to be quite the temp to make a difference i think).
since you just worked on the motor, would it be possible that you have a bad connection or even bad ground somewhere?
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i doubt the heat from the head damaged the injectors but stranger things have happened (i mean it would have had to be quite the temp to make a difference i think).
since you just worked on the motor, would it be possible that you have a bad connection or even bad ground somewhere?
Could be. I'm going to go over everything very thoroughly today and re-check everything. Still, new injectors aren't a bad idea at 162K.
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May not be so visible in the photo but, bent intake valve on cylinder # 4. This is a brand new cylinder head!!! It barely has 200 miles on it!!! There’s no mark on the piston so I am very unsure of what may have cause this. Also, the pushrod is as straight as can be. WTF??? Bad valve?
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/938b4ac87ea3b67fa167b785b6f4296b/tumblr_mkr4dsFX2I1qh5asjo1_500.jpg)
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was the head changed after it overheated? or did it get an valve job and a flat face?
take the valve out and check the stem, if its scratched then it seized and got a tap from the piston (doesnt take much and i understand its not marked but unless it was bad to begin with it won't bend on it's own).
or better if you got it done at a shop might as well take it over there and see what they say.
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was the head changed after it overheated? or did it get an valve job and a flat face?
take the valve out and check the stem, if its scratched then it seized and got a tap from the piston (doesnt take much and i understand its not marked but unless it was bad to begin with it won't bend on it's own).
or better if you got it done at a shop might as well take it over there and see what they say.
The head was changed after the overheat. Turned the old head in as a core. I'm taking it back to the shop today.
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Took it back to the shop and it's being taken care of. The push-rods are all straight and I see no excessive wear on the tips. I'm wondering if I should replace the lifters and push-rods while I have everything torn apart. What's everyone's opinion on this?
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BTW, the valve face it bent in a concave pattern. Looks as though something pulled to hard on the stem from the spring side. Has anyone seen this before? What could cause it?
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is it "burned" on the seat (if it didn close then could have overheated the valve and it deformed) - the exhaust valves are lot harder than the intake ones.
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Valve burn is a very good possibility considering the injector on that cylinder was bad.
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Valve burn is a very good possibility considering the injector on that cylinder was bad.
the valve can burn if it does not seat properly and exhaust gasses make it past the seat, in that case it can also damage the injector. to give you an example, if the seat was not machined "in-line" with the valve guide then it would not seal, gasses would make it between the valve and the seat and cause the intake valve to overheat and possibly bend. It can also be the other way around too like yous say if the injector is bad and the gas temps go too high in the chamber. Until they take off the valve to check the seating side would be hard to tell, in most cases you see a section of the valve being burned off which is not your case.
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the valve can burn if it does not seat properly and exhaust gasses make it past the seat, in that case it can also damage the injector. to give you an example, if the seat was not machined "in-line" with the valve guide then it would not seal, gasses would make it between the valve and the seat and cause the intake valve to overheat and possibly bend. It can also be the other way around too like yous say if the injector is bad and the gas temps go too high in the chamber. Until they take off the valve to check the seating side would be hard to tell, in most cases you see a section of the valve being burned off which is not your case.
Well, this got me thinking...
I DID NOT have any injector problems until after I added the new/re-manufactured cylinder head. Two days into running the engine with the new head, things went bad. None of the injector codes showed up until that point. Immediately prior to replacing the injectors, I was getting a code for P0201, P0202, P0203 and P0204. Again, no problems with the injectors before the head switch.
Compression check yesterday showed zero compression on # 4. The remaining cylinders had acceptable compression when turning the engine over with the fuel pump relay removed. I then connected my shop compressor tank (leak down test) to the remaining 3 cylinders @ 110 p.s.i. and heard a hissing sound coming from every single cylinder. I did this with the rocker arms removed so as to ensure all the valves were indeed shut. Still, air escaped.
This isn't cool and at this point is costing me a boat load of money.
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You should have about 140 lbs on each cylinder,, with my cam and
aftermarket pistons I get 145 to 150 on each jug depending on the temperature.
It cost me about 2K to have my motor fully gone through
rebuilt and warmed up with Hesco parts. By a acquaintance race engine builder.
Most of my experience with overheating engines is that if it get hot enough to warp
the heads,, you likely have toasted rings and piston tops.
Cheers
Dave
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i would take the head back and inquire, if they're good folks they'll fix it and make it right, who knows what could have happened. if the plastic cap on the injector is burned then you can blame it on the valve, otherwise i doubt it's something wrong with them - i'm guessing once the head is fixed it will run fine.