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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: enginethatcould on January 27, 2008, 03:18:52 PM

Title: Tranny not Trany
Post by: enginethatcould on January 27, 2008, 03:18:52 PM
I have a '93 w/ a 2.5L engine. I recently started having problems with 4th gear. When I shift into 4th I get grinding sound thats pretty loud. Once I get it into 4th it's fine. This dosn't happen with any of the other gears when I shift. I have no knowledge about tranys what so ever. In fact this is my first manuel. Can any one point me in the right direction or place to start?     Thank you!
Title: Re: Trany
Post by: oldjeep on January 27, 2008, 03:20:43 PM
Your syncro is shot.  Only way to fix it is to rebuild the tranny and replace the syncro
Title: Re: Trany
Post by: enginethatcould on January 27, 2008, 03:25:38 PM
Was hoping not to hear the rebuild part. How hard would you say this is?
Title: Re: Trany
Post by: oldjeep on January 27, 2008, 03:30:30 PM
I've only rebuilt T-90's and T-18's before, so hopefully someone else will pipe in.  In general manual transmissions are pretty simple, but in the case of a T18 you need some pretty big bearing pullers to do the job.
Title: Re: Trany
Post by: Jeffy on January 27, 2008, 05:13:16 PM
Seems strange that only 4th syncro's would go bad.  It's usually 1st and 2nd that go bad.

Personally, I wouldn't bother rebuilding it.  You have a 50/50 chance of having problems again.  You'd be better off with a NOS or Salvage.  I'd look into a newer one and swap out the internal slave for a external while I was at it.
Title: Re: Trany
Post by: Bounty Hunter on January 27, 2008, 06:34:03 PM
I would drain the tranny fluid asap, it will likely be full of brass glitter.  Put a good synthetic like Redline MT90 and it may improve, may make it more driveable until you have time for a more permanent fix.
Title: Re: Trany
Post by: flyingbrick on January 27, 2008, 06:51:30 PM
You can put off the rebuild/replace by double-clutching your 3/4 shift.
Title: Re: Trany
Post by: jfrabat on January 28, 2008, 10:05:20 AM
Have you checked the slavecylinder?  I had mine go bad, and I started having the same (or similar) problem in my '94 YJ.  Since I changed the slave (and the whole hydraulic system leading to the clutch) I have no longer any problems.

I would drain the tranny fluid asap, it will likely be full of brass glitter.  Put a good synthetic like Redline MT90 and it may improve, may make it more driveable until you have time for a more permanent fix.

While I did the fix above, I also put MT90 in the tranny, and the shifting is MUUUUCH smoother now than what it was before.  I strongly recommend this!

Felipe
Title: Re: Trany
Post by: enginethatcould on January 28, 2008, 10:40:36 AM
Have you checked the slavecylinder?  I had mine go bad, and I started having the same (or similar) problem in my '94 YJ.  Since I changed the slave (and the whole hydraulic system leading to the clutch) I have no longer any problems.

While I did the fix above, I also put MT90 in the tranny, and the shifting is MUUUUCH smoother now than what it was before.  I strongly recommend this!

Felipe

My slave is bad. It actually leaks a bit now and then. I have the new slave but haven't had the time to change it.
Title: Re: Trany
Post by: enginethatcould on January 28, 2008, 11:14:01 AM
Seems strange that only 4th syncro's would go bad.  It's usually 1st and 2nd that go bad.

Personally, I wouldn't bother rebuilding it.  You have a 50/50 chance of having problems again.  You'd be better off with a NOS or Salvage.  I'd look into a newer one and swap out the internal slave for a external while I was at it.

What other tranny would you recomend? I found an article about fitting an AX15 but I don't know which way to go with it. The cheapest thing would be rebuild kit for about $130 on ebay. I don't want to get stuck with it breaking on me again or costing me more money in the long run.
Title: Re: Trany
Post by: jfrabat on January 28, 2008, 12:32:17 PM
My slave is bad. It actually leaks a bit now and then. I have the new slave but haven't had the time to change it.

My advice; change the slave and mut MT90 in it, and see how it goes before getting into a new tranny...  If the problem persists, then invest in the new tranny or rebuild kit.  By the way, I am assuming that the '93 is an external slave like my '94, but I dont remember if it is or not (dont remember the year they changed it from internal to external).

If it is internal, then I would probably change the tranny, as you will need to take it down anyway...  And that is a real PITA!

Felipe
Title: Re: Trany
Post by: enginethatcould on January 28, 2008, 12:42:51 PM
My advice; change the slave and mut MT90 in it, and see how it goes before getting into a new tranny...  If the problem persists, then invest in the new tranny or rebuild kit.  By the way, I am assuming that the '93 is an external slave like my '94, but I dont remember if it is or not (dont remember the year they changed it from internal to external).

If it is internal, then I would probably change the tranny, as you will need to take it down anyway...  And that is a real PITA!

Felipe
It is an internal.....that's why I have been putting it off for so long. I guess I'll try the MT90 and see if that will hold me over until I get some time to rebuild it or replace it. Haven't decided yet
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: Jeffy on January 28, 2008, 03:36:30 PM
Pre or Post Op?   :eek:
Title: Re: Trany
Post by: enginethatcould on January 29, 2008, 01:01:24 PM
Seems strange that only 4th syncro's would go bad.  It's usually 1st and 2nd that go bad.

Personally, I wouldn't bother rebuilding it.  You have a 50/50 chance of having problems again.  You'd be better off with a NOS or Salvage.  I'd look into a newer one and swap out the internal slave for a external while I was at it.

Jeffy,

What transmission would you recomend?
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: 95yjman on January 29, 2008, 04:48:25 PM
Before you go and rebuild it, drain the old fluid out and put Redline in it.  It should quiet it down, yes it mask the problem but it is cheaper then rebuilding it.  If it only makes a noise but still goes into 4th just fine maybe try it.  It seemed to work well on my buddies jeep. :confused:
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: enginethatcould on January 29, 2008, 05:20:54 PM
I changed my fluid and had brass "glitter" everywhere. I replaced it and the noise quieted down some and all other gears shifted much smoother. Now there is a new problem. When I'm in first or reverse there is no initial noise, but when i press the clutch in while still in gear it makes an odd sound. It sounds like there would be a rock inside tumbling around. This only happens in first and reverse. Any ideas? :confused:
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: chardrc on January 29, 2008, 09:07:18 PM
my guess would be bad bearing that puts play in 1st and revers so when under power it turns round but when not under power its free to wable.... jsut my thought.. iv never seen the inside of an ax5 to specifically know what im talking about.
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: neale_rs on January 30, 2008, 08:21:39 AM
Canīt imagine how a lube change could cause something like that.  Did you fill through the real fill hole?  It is hard to find on the passenger side.  A lot of AX5 owners use the torx plug on the driver's side because it is easier to find but that plug should not be removed because it holds a metal ball in place.
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: enginethatcould on January 30, 2008, 08:35:02 AM
Canīt imagine how a lube change could cause something like that.  Did you fill through the real fill hole?  It is hard to find on the passenger side.  A lot of AX5 owners use the torx plug on the driver's side because it is easier to find but that plug should not be removed because it holds a metal ball in place.

No, I removed the torx bolt on the drivers side.  :stick: I'm thinking of just going with another transmission. I want to get awy from ax5 just not sure which route to take. :puzzled:
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: neale_rs on January 30, 2008, 08:54:00 AM
I used the torx plug the first time and it results in a lower lube level than the real fill hole.  Maybe the noise is caused by that. Good luck.
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: jfrabat on January 30, 2008, 09:01:05 AM
Mine was not a torx head at all...  Are you sure you used the right fill hole?  The diagram I had on hand when I did the change was not so clear in pointing it out...
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: enginethatcould on January 30, 2008, 09:11:47 AM
Mine was not a torx head at all...  Are you sure you used the right fill hole?  The diagram I had on hand when I did the change was not so clear in pointing it out...

It was a torx. I guy I know informed me that it "must be" the fill hole. This is turning out to be PITA!
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: jfrabat on January 30, 2008, 09:36:07 AM
Mine had the drain plug (hex), a torx one that said "DO NOT REMOVE" and another hex for the fill hole...
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: enginethatcould on January 30, 2008, 09:51:29 AM
Mine had the drain plug (hex), a torx one that said "DO NOT REMOVE" and another hex for the fill hole...

The one I removed probably said "DO NOT REMOVE" knowing my luck! It looks like the previous owner put a pipe wrench on it and I cant make out anything. It was on the drivers side about in the middle of the transmission.
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: neale_rs on January 30, 2008, 09:56:03 AM
The torx is the wrong one and results in a low lube level.  I ran it like that for a few miles and was lucky someone mentioned that the correct fill hole was on the other side.  I checked the level and ended up putting in at least another quart.
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: enginethatcould on January 30, 2008, 10:04:32 AM
The torx is the wrong one and results in a low lube level.  I ran it like that for a few miles and was lucky someone mentioned that the correct fill hole was on the other side.  I checked the level and ended up putting in at least another quart.

How many quarts should it take?
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: oldjeep on January 30, 2008, 10:24:39 AM
How many quarts should it take?

According to the FSM it takes 7 pints (3.5 quarts)
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: jfrabat on January 30, 2008, 02:24:51 PM
THat's what mine took in...
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: Jeffy on January 30, 2008, 04:25:10 PM
As others have noted the Torx plug is NOT a fill hole. 

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/yokomura/4BangerJP/manuals/3c2debc3.jpg)
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: enginethatcould on February 01, 2008, 06:47:54 AM
Afetr doing some research, I agree with Jeffy and I'm not going to rebuild the ax5. I decided to do a AX15 conversion and I'm about ready to start collecting parts. I have a few questions I'm still not sure about. Does the donor vehicle of the ax15 have to be off a 4wd? Also, how many miles does the average AX15 go for? Thank you all for all your help! If anyone would like to try this conversion here is a link that I found that makes seem to be pretty moderate.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=181361&highlight=ax15+swap&page=1
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: oldjeep on February 01, 2008, 07:55:49 AM
Afetr doing some research, I agree with Jeffy and I'm not going to rebuild the ax5. I decided to do a AX15 conversion and I'm about ready to start collecting parts. I have a few questions I'm still not sure about. Does the donor vehicle of the ax15 have to be off a 4wd? Also, how many miles does the average AX15 go for? Thank you all for all your help! If anyone would like to try this conversion here is a link that I found that makes seem to be pretty moderate.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=181361&highlight=ax15+swap&page=1

Yes, it needs to be from a 4wd - otherwise it will have the wrong type of output shaft and will not have a tcase adapter on it.   As far as how long they last, it depends entirely on how it was abused.  I pulled a perfectly good AX15 out of my kids comanche that had 150K miles on it, they guy I sold it to said it looked great inside
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: Jeffy on February 01, 2008, 04:10:31 PM
Afetr doing some research, I agree with Jeffy and I'm not going to rebuild the ax5. I decided to do a AX15 conversion and I'm about ready to start collecting parts. I have a few questions I'm still not sure about. Does the donor vehicle of the ax15 have to be off a 4wd? Also, how many miles does the average AX15 go for? Thank you all for all your help! If anyone would like to try this conversion here is a link that I found that makes seem to be pretty moderate.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=181361&highlight=ax15+swap&page=1

If I was going to do the swap, I'd really consider the NV3550 if you can get one.  It's a bit more money but a lot newer then an AX15.  The AX-15 has some of the problems the AX-5 has.  The #1 being hard shifts when cold.

All, you need to do is find the bellhousing.  You don't need the transmission.  Most are 2WD anyway.  The problem is the AX-15 in a Dodge is clocked a bit compared to the Jeeps which is straight.  Get your transmission from a Jeep.  Newer the better.
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: enginethatcould on February 01, 2008, 08:24:38 PM
If I was going to do the swap, I'd really consider the NV3550 if you can get one.  It's a bit more money but a lot newer then an AX15.  The AX-15 has some of the problems the AX-5 has.  The #1 being hard shifts when cold.

All, you need to do is find the bellhousing.  You don't need the transmission.  Most are 2WD anyway.  The problem is the AX-15 in a Dodge is clocked a bit compared to the Jeeps which is straight.  Get your transmission from a Jeep.  Newer the better.

Not to sound too stupid, but what vehicles did the NV3550 come in?
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: Jesse-James on February 01, 2008, 09:42:04 PM
IIRC, it comes in 2000 and up TJ's with a 4.0L
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: Bounty Hunter on February 02, 2008, 12:25:38 PM
If I was going to do the swap, I'd really consider the NV3550 if you can get one.  It's a bit more money but a lot newer then an AX15.  The AX-15 has some of the problems the AX-5 has.  The #1 being hard shifts when cold.
The AX15 shifts smooth as butter when cold if the correct fluid is used, and from owner reports, sounds like the 3550 is a can of rocks with all the rattles.
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: Jeffy on February 02, 2008, 12:39:48 PM
The AX15 shifts smooth as butter when cold if the correct fluid is used, and from owner reports, sounds like the 3550 is a can of rocks with all the rattles.

I've had hard 1-2 shifts even with the correct fluid used. :confused:  Heat also caused harder shifting.  Then it was really high humidity or over 100*, 1st was harder to fined.

The NV3550 is louder because it's a truck transmission.  Dodge put them behind the 318cid 1500 Rams.  This would also set you up nicely for a V8 swap down the road.
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: jfrabat on February 02, 2008, 04:10:36 PM
I've had hard 1-2 shifts even with the correct fluid used. :confused:  Heat also caused harder shifting.  Then it was really high humidity or over 100*, 1st was harder to fined.

They say the same thing about the AX5, and I would have agreed... Until I put some Redline MT90 in there.  I have not had any hard shifting since.
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: enginethatcould on February 02, 2008, 09:29:12 PM
I've had hard 1-2 shifts even with the correct fluid used. :confused:  Heat also caused harder shifting.  Then it was really high humidity or over 100*, 1st was harder to fined.

The NV3550 is louder because it's a truck transmission.  Dodge put them behind the 318cid 1500 Rams.  This would also set you up nicely for a V8 swap down the road.

What years did Dodge put that in? I'm Having a hard time finding one locally of off a jeep. The V8 swap is a couple years down the road right now. While Im at this junctuion I would like to anticipate the v8 by putting the best option in.
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: Bounty Hunter on February 03, 2008, 06:17:55 AM
I've had hard 1-2 shifts even with the correct fluid used. :confused:  Heat also caused harder shifting.  Then it was really high humidity or over 100*, 1st was harder to fined.

The NV3550 is louder because it's a truck transmission.  Dodge put them behind the 318cid 1500 Rams.  This would also set you up nicely for a V8 swap down the road.
Sounds like it may be just your tranny, I haven't heard that as a common problem with the AX trannies.

So the 3550 should sound like a can of rocks at idle because it's a truck tranny?
Title: Re: Tranny not Trany
Post by: Jeffy on February 04, 2008, 12:19:54 PM
Sounds like it may be just your tranny, I haven't heard that as a common problem with the AX trannies.

So the 3550 should sound like a can of rocks at idle because it's a truck tranny?

The hard shifts are/were very common on the AX family.

Ever use a NV4500?