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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: jcsanders79 on March 04, 2008, 05:09:29 AM
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I am in the process of collecting parts to go with 5.38 gears so that I can run 35's. I currently have a rear D44 and want to put one in the front. I will be installing OX lockers and am thinking that I can piece an axle together cheaper than the ready to go bolt in axles. Is there a front D44 that would be easier to start with? I plan on using my current knuckles and brakes, Do I also use the D30 shafts? Any other input would be great! Thanks, Chris.
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You may want to hold off a little bit on the selection of a front compatible axle. Reid Racing is coming out with a knuckle that will convert the uni-bearing to a full floater hub with a manual lockout. The only thing is that it will use a GM straight axle spindle out. That gives you a 6 lug wheel requirement. However, you could throw on a Ford hub (rotor, caliper) on GM spindle to get a 5lug (5on5.5) wheel pattern. Then match the rear lug by using different shafts. The steering tie rod will be placed in the stock configuration location so that you wouldn't have to mess with the track bar axle location. However, with the GM designed knuckle it will have flat top capability so high-steer could work. Then you would have to relocate the track bar to match the drag link angle to minimize bump steer. Pricing will be under $300 on the high side to over $230 on the low side. They stated it will work with the CJ spindle/hub/rotor/caliper also, but then you are getting the smaller u-joint (260) with that setup. Keep it GM and you get the 297/760 larger joint. This size ujoint is the same as the TJ D30/Rubicon D44. The knuckle axle hole will be larger so when you do break a joint and the yoke ears separate, you could still pull it through the knuckle center hole.
Their market research shows TJ owners wanting manual lockouts for the 35-38" tires and stock upgraded axles. Many TJ owners swap in alloy shafts so opting the rear alloys to match the front lug pattern wouldn't cost any more, though getting working brakes is another cost. Adding a conversion spacer is another option to get the rear axle lug pattern to match. These are to work with the TJ stock D30/Rubicon D44 inner Cs on the axles.
Depending on what kind of wheeling you do, how aggressive your right foot is, and how much weight your Jeep will be, the D30/Rubi D44 can handle some size itself. The tubes will probably require some kind of truss to minimize the deflection (known problem with the coiled D30), the troublesome uni-bearing will be eliminated.
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Thats way more than I want out of the axle. The only reason I want a D44 up front is so I can go 5.38 with the gears. I want to use my stock knuckles brakes and all that.
I found a bare housing for $100+shipping ($180 total) that came out of a 3/4 ton Chevy. I know I have to cut it down and put TJ brakets on it (I was told my D30 brackets could be cut off and reused) but will this axle allow me to put my knuckles back on? Besides gears, locker, axle shafts and a bearing kit is there anything else I need?
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If you are going to narrow the axle there should be no reason you couldnīt put the D30 ends on it, they are just welded on. You may need to use bigger outer shafts that take 297/760 u-joints.
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You know that that Chevy axle is not only going to need cut! It'll need the tubes swapped side to side. So that you ahve the correct drop. Might want to consider a early waggy front 44. Won't need to be narrowed.
You can use the inner axles and the dana 30 stubs. Also if you happen to break an axle, J.Y. axles are cheap compared to waiting for a custom to be sent. Last time I checked UPS doesn't deliver on the trail! ;
TJ brackets can be cut off and reused. If you are carefull. R.E. sells the bracket kit for abot $400 for the front!
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How can he use the D30 inner axles? Aren't they 27 spline as opposed to 30 spline on the D44 differential?
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Dana 44 inners and 30 outers! I'm pretty sure it'll work!
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Ok, I see what you mean, I agree it would work.
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You know that that Chevy axle is not only going to need cut! It'll need the tubes swapped side to side. So that you ahve the correct drop. Might want to consider a early waggy front 44. Won't need to be narrowed.
You can use the inner axles and the dana 30 stubs. Also if you happen to break an axle, J.Y. axles are cheap compared to waiting for a custom to be sent. Last time I checked UPS doesn't deliver on the trail! ;
TJ brackets can be cut off and reused. If you are carefull. R.E. sells the bracket kit for abot $400 for the front!
So the early Waganers have the same width? I'm glad you said something about the pumpkin being on different sides I totally forgot about that.
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I found a complete driver side diff front D44 out of a 79 ford pretty cheap. I am having trouble finding info on this axle. Does anyone know if this will be compatible with my D30 knuckles, ball joints, spindles and brakes(this is what the TJ replacement axles reuse)? I know I will have to get it cut down anything else I am not thinking about?
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I found a complete driver side diff front D44 out of a 79 ford pretty cheap. I am having trouble finding info on this axle. Does anyone know if this will be compatible with my D30 knuckles, ball joints, spindles and brakes(this is what the TJ replacement axles reuse)? I know I will have to get it cut down anything else I am not thinking about?
Uh - no. You might be able to take the outter C's off your D30 and mill them out so they will fit on the D44 tubes. But D44 C's will not work with XJ/YJ Dana 30 knuckles.
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Uh - no. You might be able to take the outter C's off your D30 and mill them out so they will fit on the D44 tubes. But D44 C's will not work with XJ/YJ Dana 30 knuckles.
Its a TJ though, I am not convinced that this is a good axle to start with yet, still looking. Any suggestions on a good vehicle model to track down?
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Its a TJ though, I am not convinced that this is a good axle to start with yet, still looking. Any suggestions on a good vehicle model to track down?
XJ/YJ/TJ then :) There are not any easy choices for a 5 on 4.5 front axle that will take 5.38 gears. Not sure why you think you need 5.38's with 35" tires, but that's another discussion.
Dodge 1/2 ton unit bearing D44's are 5 on 4.5 but would have to be narrowed and the axle has some serious issues, one of the biggest is the lack of available replacement parts.
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XJ/YJ/TJ then :) There are not any easy choices for a 5 on 4.5 front axle that will take 5.38 gears. Not sure why you think you need 5.38's with 35" tires, but that's another discussion.
Dodge 1/2 ton unit bearing D44's are 5 on 4.5 but would have to be narrowed and the axle has some serious issues, one of the biggest is the lack of available replacement parts.
Let me retry this question. I want to end up with something like this http://www.drivetrainwarehouse.com/PDT260549.aspx This set up reuses my stock D30 knuckles, ball joints, spindles and brakes. Which means that I don't have to worry about lug patterns. I am running 33's with 4.88's right now and 5.38 would make a very BIG difference, don't all D44 accept 5.38 gears?
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Let me retry this question. I want to end up with something like this http://www.drivetrainwarehouse.com/PDT260549.aspx This set up reuses my stock D30 knuckles, ball joints, spindles and brakes. Which means that I don't have to worry about lug patterns. I am running 33's with 4.88's right now and 5.38 would make a very BIG difference, don't all D44 accept 5.38 gears?
Rubicon D44's don't
In order to build what is in that link, you would need to get a Dana 44 front end - preferably a high pinion from a Ford. Then you need to remove the C's from the ends of the tubes. Then you would need to remove the C's from your Dana 30 and have them milled out so that they would actuallyu fit on a D44 tube. Then you would need to cut the D44 to the correct width, install the C's and weld them on. Once you do all that you need to weld on TJ coil and control arm brackets.
You would then get some D44 inner axles cut down to the size you need and attach them to the stubs from your D30 (assuming you have the larger ujoints) The reattach all the outter D30 stuff and you're done.
easy ???
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Rubicon D44's don't
In order to build what is in that link, you would need to get a Dana 44 front end - preferably a high pinion from a Ford. Then you need to remove the C's from the ends of the tubes. Then you would need to remove the C's from your Dana 30 and have them milled out so that they would actuallyu fit on a D44 tube. Then you would need to cut the D44 to the correct width, install the C's and weld them on. Once you do all that you need to weld on TJ coil and control arm brackets.
You would then get some D44 inner axles cut down to the size you need and attach them to the stubs from your D30 (assuming you have the larger ujoints) The reattach all the outter D30 stuff and you're done.
If you replace the carrier on the Rubi I think it will take 5.38? It doesn't really matter because I can't find a Rubi axle under $2000.
Actually it doesn't sound to hard when you put it like that. There is a local shop that has a jig and can do all that cutting and welding pretty cheap. The TJ has the 297 size joints, I am pretty sure that is the large size. High pinion Ford hmmm, know if there is a great year?
easy ???
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78-79 F250 or supercab F150 are the easiest since they will have leaf spring perches on them instead of the clamshells for the radius arm mounts. If you do get an axle that had radius arms you need to make sure that it does not have the cast in mounts.
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78-79 F250 or supercab F150 are the easiest since they will have leaf spring perches on them instead of the clamshells for the radius arm mounts. If you do get an axle that had radius arms you need to make sure that it does not have the cast in mounts.
Honestly I'd be suprised if you could buy the parts and then pay a shop to do all the cutting and welding work, and setting gears for less than buying the one in your link.
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Honestly I'd be suprised if you could buy the parts and then pay a shop to do all the cutting and welding work, and setting gears for less than buying the one in your link.
I have found a 79 ford D44 and I found some good info on them but got to make sure it is the one with leaf springs like you said. I should be able to buy this axle and have it cut/welded up for $700, OX locker $840(this incldes the cable) and new gears and bearings $250, thats $1790. The cheapest I can find a standard D44 with OX locker ready to bolt in is $2600. So for $900 less I get what I want but its a highpinion as a bonous!
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I have found a 79 ford D44 and I found some good info on them but got to make sure it is the one with leaf springs like you said. I should be able to buy this axle and have it cut/welded up for $700, OX locker $840(this incldes the cable) and new gears and bearings $250, thats $1790. The cheapest I can find a standard D44 with OX locker ready to bolt in is $2600. So for $900 less I get what I want but its a highpinion as a bonous!
Are you installing the gears? And you forgot to add in the cost of having the inner axles cut and resplined, or custom alloy inners.
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Are you installing the gears? And you forgot to add in the cost of having the inner axles cut and resplined, or custom alloy inners.
Also does your $700 include the TJ coil/ control arm brackets? I'm not sure if you've ever tried to remove and reuse a stock set, but I've removed 3 sets of them and it's near impossible to get them off intact enough to reuse.
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Also does your $700 include the TJ coil/ control arm brackets? I'm not sure if you've ever tried to remove and reuse a stock set, but I've removed 3 sets of them and it's near impossible to get them off intact enough to reuse.
.The guys at the driveline shop said they can remove and reinstall no problem? Something about having a jig probably helps. The $700 does include the cost of cuting and resplining the inner axles, same shop(they estimated $500 worth of cuting and welding and the axle is $200). I'll most likely do the gears myself but if I get lazy thats an additional $125. I am getting ahead of the project because I don't know if the axle has leaf spring perches or coils yet, they are closed so I wont find out till tomorrow.
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.The guys at the driveline shop said they can remove and reinstall no problem? Something about having a jig probably helps. The $700 does include the cost of cuting and resplining the inner axles, same shop(they estimated $500 worth of cuting and welding and the axle is $200). I'll most likely do the gears myself but if I get lazy thats an additional $125. I am getting ahead of the project because I don't know if the axle has leaf spring perches or coils yet, they are closed so I wont find out till tomorrow.
Well, good luck to you. I would make sure you get all that in writing before they get started.
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Rubicon D44's don't
The only difference with the Rubicon 44 is the carrier. They only use one carrier and no gear splits so you need to use thick gears when going lower. Currently, you can only get 5.13's without getting a shim.
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The only difference with the Rubicon 44 is the carrier. They only use one carrier and no gear splits so you need to use thick gears when going lower. Currently, you can only get 5.13's without getting a shim.
Right but if you take out the magic rubicon air locker it's a pretty expensive way to get a 44 front.
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So the early Waganers have the same width? I'm glad you said something about the pumpkin being on different sides I totally forgot about that
Wagoneer is approx. 2" wider. But you can forget about custom axles with that set up and use stock waggy axles.
Setting the c's are pretty easy as long as you take your time. Problem with using the dana 30's is the extra machine work. I went with the 5 x 5.5 front and rear. Manual locking hubs and bigger disks for stopping bigger tires!
Good luck with your build
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Wagoneer is approx. 2" wider. But you can forget about custom axles with that set up and use stock waggy axles.
Setting the c's are pretty easy as long as you take your time. Problem with using the dana 30's is the extra machine work. I went with the 5 x 5.5 front and rear. Manual locking hubs and bigger disks for stopping bigger tires!
Good luck with your build
If you go with the wagoneer, just remember that not all wagoneers are drivers side diff. 79 and older are passenger side diff. And some of the 80's axles have a vacuum disconnect.
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All good info, thanks guys helped out a lot in selecting a starting axle, looks like Ford 1/2 tons are the way to go because they had HP and weld on C's. One of the benefits for me of building it verses buying one ready to bolt in is I can do it a couple houndre$ d at a time. I know it doesn't make a lot of sense to some of you that I want to reuse my stock knuckes and stuff but thats what I'll get if I buy one of the ready to bolt in axles (I know you can get them with beffy kuckles included but thats more money than I can or want to spend). So if I build it at least I will be getting a HP D44 and spend a few less $'s.
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Rubicon D44's don't
In order to build what is in that link, you would need to get a Dana 44 front end - preferably a high pinion from a Ford. Then you need to remove the C's from the ends of the tubes. Then you would need to remove the C's from your Dana 30 and have them milled out so that they would actuallyu fit on a D44 tube. Then you would need to cut the D44 to the correct width, install the C's and weld them on. Once you do all that you need to weld on TJ coil and control arm brackets.
You would then get some D44 inner axles cut down to the size you need and attach them to the stubs from your D30 (assuming you have the larger ujoints) The reattach all the outter D30 stuff and you're done.
easy ???
That sounds so easy I think I'm going to sell my already completed D60's and go this route instead..... :whistle:
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That sounds so easy I think I'm going to sell my already completed D60's and go this route instead..... :whistle:
Hah hah. You've been talking about these axles for at least a year are you ever going to install them? :beers: If I wanted to put 60's in I would save up and do it. Don't need them though it would be a waste of money, I actually plan on staying with my 4 cylinder and not going larger than 35's. If I ever want something bigger I'll build a buggy.
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Hah hah. You've been talking about these axles for at least a year are you ever going to install them? :beers: If I wanted to put 60's in I would save up and do it. Don't need them though it would be a waste of money, I actually plan on staying with my 4 cylinder and not going larger than 35's. If I ever want something bigger I'll build a buggy.
If you are not going any bigger than 35's and keeping the 4cyl, I strongly suggest you rethink the expense you are going through. From what I've read, you want a differential housing that would give you 5.38s and work with the stock D30 knuckle out. Problem there would be the inner axle length as it could become a custom length, thus requiring machine work. If you break a u-joint, most of the time, you break/mess up the ears on the axles and need to replace both of them. However, it's highly unlikely also, (very driver dependent), that you would break an u-joint and thus both axles. But, it still could happen.
Now, Dodge has been selling the newer JK front and rear axles with gears and lockers in the ready to bolt in and go. They are 5 on 5 lug pattern. They are 5" wider (someone stated under 3" but no clarification on which is correct*). Supposedly, the locations for the coils, control arms, and track bar do not need relocation. They are D44 housings, front is high pinion. Since they are still fairly new in the market, aftermarket will probably have different ratios/lockers available soon enough.
I'd see about if these JK axles would work with the TJ D30 knuckles out. That would be a fairly good swap to the TJ. Using stock TJ components where needed to keep costs down, empty axle housings from Jeep with inner axles (or look for aftermarket alloys) will keep costs down, you getting your own gear/locker and install will keep costs down, and you can actually keep you Jeep on the road during the install since the suspension components won't need relocation. So it may only take a day to swap out the axles, remove/install knuckles, etc. Not bad for a weekend.
Now, another viable option and probably a way to make some money at it is to come up with a gear case that is 30% lower than 1 (1.3:1). This is what 5.38 ratio is to the 3.73 ratio (assuming what was stock in the 4cyl TJ). This would be pretty simple and you wouldn't have to make it have any real length, maybe 2-3+ inches. The gear case would be similar to that of the Klune, but you wouldn't be as long as you only have 1 gear ratio change using the planetary gear setup. Place this between the trans and t-case.
My followup question is to why do you need the 5.38s in the axles (did I miss it)? Is it for 2wdhigh or the 4wdlow side use? If 4wdlow, you can getter low gear ratio for the TJ's 231 case. 4:1 is rather easily available, its a bolt in situation, and a much better option for your money's worth?
You could also look at D.D. Machine's doubler for the 231 as a way of getting better low side gear ratios.
*Not to push to another forum, but JeepsUnlimited has someone that install JK axles into a TJ w/ pics.
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Or just put the 35's on, realize that you don't need 5.38's and save all sorts of money. :pot:
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I know...I'm all talk and no do....but they are actually going in....Just one more month to wait....and I'll be running my 4-banger with 35's....for now
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I'm done with this Q. I am on another forum and am getting answers not critism :twofingers:. I happen to have a 4:1 on order and it should be here within 4-5 weeks. If anyone is considering one I would give www.samsoffroad.com a look (I've done business with them in the past and they are top notch). They have a blem special that is $729 TYD. The 5.38's are for 2wd. If you think I don't need them thats fine I, I am pretty sure that I have seen quite a few guys that run 35's with 4.88's (which I have now) say they wish they had 5.38 gears.
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Forgot to mention I don't know how far I will get with this in the next few months. I found out today that I will be having my gallblader removed in the morning and my copays for surgery will most likely zap my fun money :brick:. Maybe not we'll see, thats the benefit of building it myself instead of buying it all fabbed up. I can do it couple hundred at a time.
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I run 5.38 and either 35" (onroad) or 36" (offroad) tires, and would not run a taller gear. 5.38 puts the 2.5L in an awesome powerband for highway and offroad use.
Why not just install junkyard D44's on each end and forget trying to modify a front D44 for the puny 5x4.5" lug pattern. Going with a standard D44 knuckle will get you the benefit of cheaper highsteer options, serviceable bearings, and locking hubs.
I went with a Waggy front D44 and Isuzu rear D44, both with matching 6-lug wheel pattern and disc brakes. The 'Zu D44 is a great match for the Waggy axle.
Don't listen to the criticism, just weed through it for the useful info.
Good luck with the surgery.
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hmmmm....I'm starting to worry about my 35's and 4.88's....actually, I'm more worried about them and the added weight of my axles. ::)
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I wouldn't go with a 4:1 in the transfer case unless crawling is all you do. Around here 2.72 works real well for general trail riding, which includes high revving hill climbs and mud runs, not just slow technical rock work.
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I wouldn't go with a 4:1 in the transfer case unless crawling is all you do. Around here 2.72 works real well for general trail riding, which includes high revving hill climbs and mud runs, not just slow technical rock work.
Got a lot of rocks around here, have you heard of Telico? For the most part I stay out of the mud. I do most of the high rev stuff in 4WH anyways.
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Here is the discussion on the JK D44 axles in a TJ (http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?t=863249). They also have an extensive discussion on gear ratio matching tire size.
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Here is the discussion on the JK D44 axles in a TJ (http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?t=863249). They also have an extensive discussion on gear ratio matching tire size.
Tire size is not the only factor to consider when determing a new ratio.