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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: mrcabinet on October 26, 2009, 09:32:29 AM
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I have a 4" Pro Comp lift on the TJ and, after reading several posts here, am now wondering if I should put a dropped pitman arm on it. I don't know if I'd call it bump steer or not, but when I'm accelerating hard and take my foot off the gas to shift, it does tend to pull to the right. Also, the steering has always felt a little "squirrely", despite everything being tight and adjusted.
If I do the pitman arm, will I have to do anything to the trackbar? It is an adjustable one, but will I need to change the mount and, if so, with what?
Thanks in advance.
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Take a look at your draglink in relation to the trackbar and see if they're parallel. If they are, don't change anything.
If a drop pitman arm will help bring them close to parallel, install it. Get a pitman arm from an XJ at the boneyard if you want a drop pitman on the cheap.
Post a pic of the front end if you're not sure about parallel.
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I have a 4" Pro Comp lift on the TJ and, after reading several posts here, am now wondering if I should put a dropped pitman arm on it. I don't know if I'd call it bump steer or not, but when I'm accelerating hard and take my foot off the gas to shift, it does tend to pull to the right. Also, the steering has always felt a little "squirrely", despite everything being tight and adjusted.
If I do the pitman arm, will I have to do anything to the trackbar? It is an adjustable one, but will I need to change the mount and, if so, with what?
Thanks in advance.
ON my YJ, when I installed the lift with the relocation bracket for the trackbar, but when I changed to a telescoping trackbar from JKS, I had to go back to the stock pitman arm to keep the steering geometry correct... So, like Bounty says, post some pics and we will be able to tell from there...
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They look pretty darn close to parallel, but I'll shoot a pic and get your guy's opinion.
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Can you tell if mine is stock or not? I think, after reading around, that I might want to do just a tie rod flip and leave the pitman alone.
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk304/elwood9061/JeepPitman.jpg)
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It's stock. Be aware, you'll need to ream the knuckles.
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Couldnt I just drill them out? It seems like you could just as easy or easier, drill them out and install the new tapered sleeve and weld it in place then re-install tie rod. Please excuse my etch-a-sketch drawing. I really hate drawing with a mouse. Does this make sense or am i missing something? And does anyone know where I can get just the sleeves if this option works?
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk304/elwood9061/JeepPitman.jpg)
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http://www.goferitoffroad.com/products.htm
These will work if you are going to stay with the stock TRE's.
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Couldnt I just drill them out? It seems like you could just as easy or easier, drill them out and install the new tapered sleeve and weld it in place then re-install tie rod. Please excuse my etch-a-sketch drawing. I really hate drawing with a mouse. Does this make sense or am i missing something? And does anyone know where I can get just the sleeves if this option works?
Yes, you can drill them out and weld in sleeves as well.
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http://www.goferitoffroad.com/products.htm
These will work if you are going to stay with the stock TRE's.
And they work so well. I'm awfully hard on parts and have never had an issue with the stock sized TRE's
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Your draglink doesn't look that steep, I don't see the need. Can you post a pic from straight ahead?
If you do the tapered insert and tierod flip, you will need a 3rd insert for where the draglink connects to the tierod. Check the stabilizer connection as well, I no longer have YJ linkage and forget where it connects.
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Yes. There are more pictures on this post. http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,7573.0.html
I am trying to eliminate bump steer (or reduce it at least).
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Installing a track bar will do a lot to improve bumpsteer, and either use a drop pitman arm or a bracket on the axle end of the trackbar to raise that end. Rough Country makes a good sturdy track bar bracket.
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Kind of defeats the purpose of the shackle reversal and doesn't address the actual problem though.
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Sorry guys but I am pretty new to this. Can you tell me what purpose the shackle reversal has. Sorry Jeffy if you already told me in another post.
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Sorry guys but I am pretty new to this. Can you tell me what purpose the shackle reversal has. Sorry Jeffy if you already told me in another post.
http://jeep.off-road.com/jeep/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=260281
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Here's a pic of the front end. The trackbar / draglink angles are pretty close, but not perfect. It looks like about an 1 1/2" drop on the pitman would be better. And, what about the angle of the tierod coming off the draglink?
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And, what about the angle of the tierod coming off the draglink?
i think the drop pitman arm would correct that as well - but yeah, doesn't look right. i think you need more than 1.5'' if that's on the vertical just b/c the steering box shaft is at an angle, but hard to tell how much from that pic
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It looks like one end of your tie rod is reversed, but that wouldnt work either. Is it that relocating bracket you have there? What is that? High steer? This set-up looks odd to me. But its a TJ right?
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It looks like one end of your tie rod is reversed
good catch
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Why is his tie rod twisted like it is? And What is that relocating bracket for? That damper shock is mounted to it. Weird. I see he has a track bar and looks like at least lower control arms. I have none of this stuff plus a nasty drag link angle and my bump steer is bad when I hit the brakes. It goes to the right pretty bad. But not to the left that much unless I am on a whoop road that forces my suspension downward. That straightens out my steering wheel until the suspension retracts again.
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This steering setup is a Inverted-Y (TJ) as opposed to a Inverted - T (YJ).
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Why is his tie rod twisted like it is? And What is that relocating bracket for? That damper shock is mounted to it. Weird. I see he has a track bar and looks like at least lower control arms. I have none of this stuff plus a nasty drag link angle and my bump steer is bad when I hit the brakes. It goes to the right pretty bad. But not to the left that much unless I am on a whoop road that forces my suspension downward. That straightens out my steering wheel until the suspension retracts again.
steve-o i thought you have a YJ? that pic is off a TJ with no axle disconnect (one piece pass side axle).
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I DO. Mrcabinet has the TJ and the question at hand.
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Yes, it is a 2001 TJ. Whatever is on there is what the p/o had installed at 4 Wheel Parts. The track bar does have a riser bracket. No high steer - all stock parts and mounting locations (except the track bar).
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And the damper shock is mounted to that bracket as well. What els is mounted to it? Looks like there is something else in the knuckle end of it...
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I don't know. I'll have to look when I get home this evening. Actually, I just looked at another pic I had and it is the sway bar link.
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So that would seem like it would explain the one side of the sway bar being higher then the other.
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The mounting points of the track bar and pitman definitely do not align, so I'm thinking of doing the drop pitman arm. If I have it correct, the rule of thumb would be that if you have the track bar bracket then the dropped pitman should be used. If there's no bracket, then stick with the stock pitman arm, correct?
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I DO. Mrcabinet has the TJ and the question at hand.
I have none of this stuff plus a nasty drag link angle and my bump steer is bad when I hit the brakes. It goes to the right pretty bad.
for some reason when i read your post i thought you were asking if yours should look the same or if you're missing something there, nevermind then.
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Sorry, just a relative comment.
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The mounting points of the track bar and pitman definitely do not align, so I'm thinking of doing the drop pitman arm. If I have it correct, the rule of thumb would be that if you have the track bar bracket then the dropped pitman should be used. If there's no bracket, then stick with the stock pitman arm, correct?
Depends on the angle of the trackbar, which can change depending on if you are using brackets or an adjustable trackbar. In case of my JKS adjsutable trackbar (the telescoping one), I needed to go back to the stock pitman, whereas with the bracket I needed the dropped one.
In this pic, you can see the relative angles, and if I were to use a dropeed pitman, the angle would get worse, not better (there would be a greater gap at the top)...
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f138/jfrabat/Jeep/DSC00156.jpg)
Another before the tires were changed:
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f138/jfrabat/Jeep/DSC00154.jpg)
In my case, i still got a bit of bumpsteer, but it is manegeable, and there is nothing more I can do anyway short of removing the trackbar (hich I dont want to do because the Jeep has to drive all the way up to 400 miles from San Jose to Panama on the road).
Felipe
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Depends on the angle of the trackbar, which can change depending on if you are using brackets or an adjustable trackbar. In case of my JKS adjsutable trackbar (the telescoping one), I needed to go back to the stock pitman, whereas with the bracket I needed the dropped one.
Sounds like the same thing he said, bracket=drop pitman, no bracket=stock pitman.
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I'm not sure the relationship your pointing to , My 94 YJ has been
without both track bars since about 1995. I tried it with and without
them and I could not find a positive influence, other than the side
load it places on the bushings. which in 200K miles has not hurt anything yet...
I do run the anti-roll bar/sway bar. I like the way the YJ stops better with it.
If you put poly bushings inthe front spring holes in the frame youll be
hard pressed to tell if the track bar is there...
As far as bump steer, the link is supposed ot be as paralell to the line
drawn between the ball joints as possible, angle above or below increases
bump steer..
Good luck
Dave
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Sounds like the same thing he said, bracket=drop pitman, no bracket=stock pitman.
Your right; I misread the first time around...
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...other than the side load it places on the bushings...
Actuall, running a track bar will put side loads on your bushings every time the suspension moves. Without the track bar the steering will put some side load on the bushings but it is hard to tell which situation will cause more bushing wear. In any case, I also run no track bar and it is fine, it has almost no effect on the handling.
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So, after checking the pretty-much-useless wrecking yards here for an XJ arm and having no luck, then peeling myself off the floor when 4wheel parts told me the price of a new dropped arm, my question to you guys is: Do any of you have a dropped pitman arm that needs a new home? If so. please feel free to post here or pm me.
Thanks!
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Try www.car-parts.com.
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So, after checking the pretty-much-useless wrecking yards here for an XJ arm and having no luck, then peeling myself off the floor when 4wheel parts told me the price of a new dropped arm, my question to you guys is: Do any of you have a dropped pitman arm that needs a new home? If so. please feel free to post here or pm me.
Thanks!
if you're not in a big rush i will let you know on saturday - i have a new drop pitman arm that came with my 4'' lift kit and i am working on getting WJ knuckles in so i might not need it but i will only know on Sat evening or Sunday noon the latest. It's for a YJ but i think it should fit the TJ as well (i don't think they are different but i don't know for sure).
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Sharpxmen -
That would be great! There's really no hurry, other than now that i know what needs to be done, I'm anxious to do it. From what I understand, '86 through '06 are all the same, so long as it is for power steering.
I did try carparts.com before my last post, but couldn't find one. I've noticed that their catagories can be rather vague and hard to search.
Thanks again.
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Sharpxmen -
That would be great! There's really no hurry, other than now that i know what needs to be done, I'm anxious to do it. From what I understand, '86 through '06 are all the same, so long as it is for power steering.
I did try carparts.com before my last post, but couldn't find one. I've noticed that their catagories can be rather vague and hard to search.
Thanks again.
95 YJ with powersteering, so that should do it. I'll let you know as soon as i figure it out.
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Just a note on the track bar, I found that it also had the effect of causing
my YJ to over rotate on washboard roads, scary thing was it depended on
which direction you were turning. One way it would turn quickly (On its own) the
other way it would understeer, but slide to the inside. Very very odd.
Dave
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This guy still has one. I have asked him to see how much it would cost to mail it and he would gladly accept paypal but wont ship till payment has ben made. If you dont get it, I might just take it.
http://portland.craigslist.org/grg/pts/1453165901.html
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I gave mine away about two months ago; but try the local craigslist and see if one comes up.
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Steve-O
Thanks for the link. I thought about having my brother that lives in LO go and get it, but then I saw it was in Carson. I'm a native Oregonian, lived there for 38 years, wheeled and hunted in every corner of the state, and have never heard of Carson! After pulling it up on a map, I would hope that he'd ship since he's almost in Idaho!
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Actually its Carson, WA. Not as far as Carson, OR.
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Well that's a little better, but still up in the Gorge.
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Near my folks house, takes about 1 hour to get there from Down town PDX.
Sad thing guys. The private timber company that owns most of the private
timberland in the gorge on the WA side, closed their land to all public access.
Thousands and thousands of acres of hunting and wheeling space gone.
:'(
Dave
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Sharpxmen -
That would be great! There's really no hurry, other than now that i know what needs to be done, I'm anxious to do it. From what I understand, '86 through '06 are all the same, so long as it is for power steering.
I did try carparts.com before my last post, but couldn't find one. I've noticed that their catagories can be rather vague and hard to search.
Thanks again.
if you still want it is available: $35 + shipping, it's brand new never installed (i checked on 4wd.com and it's $72 so i figured 1/2 price) - let me know.
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Misc/Pitman_1.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/sharpxmen/Misc/Pitman_2.jpg)
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checked ebay and they are between $30 and $40 so I'll make it $25 + shipping to be below that.
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That's a deal! I'll pm you for the info.
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I read on another forum that a dropped pitman arm should never be used with this type of relocation bracket, so I called Skyjacker to get their opinion. Their reply was that I should definitely have the dropped arm, especially with 4" of lift.
One of my installers has an XJ with a 6" lift under it. He gave me his stock arm to try on my TJ. What a difference it made! Bumpsteer is completely gone and it no longer dives to the right when running up the RPMs and shifting hard. Overall, the steering feels tighter and it doesn't wander on the freeway like it used to. The tie rod is now much closer to level, and the rig actually moves when the steering wheel is turned.
I'd say the rule of thumb holds true. If you use a relocation bracket (regardless of which one), use the dropped pitman arm.
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:) Cool.
Tuning to win!
The book is always right.....
Dave