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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: DIYcurran on March 28, 2010, 06:45:24 PM
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Ok I have a 93 wrangler with a 2.5
it has 160k on it and had a complete rebuild at 70k. I know im stretching it, especially backed by an AX5....
(Note: just finished a small block 400 for a future upgrade) but I digress...
I want to SQUEEZE! every last bit of power out of that little motor AS POSABLE!!! We've had had a lot of good times together and I think its only appropriate she goes out with a Bang!
When I did the rebuild, i port 'n polished the head and Alum Intake. With a forced air intake and less restricted exhaust, It had a little more Pep
What can I do to get MORE?!?!? PLEASE! tell me anything you have done (or that you know of) to get more Performance out of a 2.5. ANYTHING!!!
Im leaning toward a new radiator, electric fan, electric water pump (if the is one for that motor) and a small turbo, if i can pick one up for a good price.
So jeep buddies, Please.... help a brother out
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I don't know this for sure but I heard the 2.4L was based of the neon 4cld. so you can make a srt4 or whatever the turbo neon is.
please correct me if I'm wrong
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Check st.chevrolet's (Sean) turbo build in member's projects section for a turbo setup. Also, you said you ported the intake, did you upgrade the throttle body? what about more fuel (is good that you give it air by porting/polishing the intake but you can't make more power without more fuel). I would be interested to see (if you have any pics that would be great) or at least hear how you polished the intake, seems a bit hard to get all the way thru, i have a spare manifold and was planning to make something custom but would prefer if i can polish the stock one, so I'd like to know how you did it.
also, what tires are you running and did you regear to match the new tire size?
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I did it about 7 years ago... sorry didn't think to take any pic's. Striped the motor down (before i brought it to the machine shop)
Head and intake on a bench. with a flex extension, a dremel tool and about 8hrs of free time, it was all smoothed out. (black faced) Im sure i will be paying for this later in life...
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couple things,
the neon engine is not the same as the jeep 2.4, nor would it make sense to install one for the power is not worth the price
please search for your answers before posting a new topic, i built a performance 2.5 and it is well documented as for all parts and procedures i used to gain the power you can get with this motor N/A
also there are turbo build threads as were stated above, both could be found with a quick search for "performance 2.5" and "turbo project"
as for all the individual power adders check out a search again for each one like "electric fan" or "injectors"
there is a wealth of information on this site that can be had with a little searching
im not trying to be rude but the amount some of the senior members have had to answer the same questions over and over gets frustrating. please search first then ask if you cant find the answer
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By the way, there was a supercharger build going on, but apparently the guy has been really busy modifying fuel pressure regulators and improving his drive train, so I have not seen any progress on the supercharger... Right, Sharp? :stick: :wall:
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By the way, there was a supercharger build going on, but apparently the guy has been really busy modifying fuel pressure regulators and improving his drive train, so I have not seen any progress on the supercharger... Right, Sharp? :stick: :wall:
yeah, that's why i didn't mentioned it :lol:
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mahah sharp is to busy making money to finish his projects lol
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yeah, that's why i didn't mentioned it :lol:
I'll be waiting by the mailbox. ;) :lol:
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I'll be waiting by the mailbox. ;) :lol:
X2 :whistle: :roflol:
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X2 :whistle: :roflol:
x3
and sorry about the 2.4L thing I swear the thread 2.4L not 2.5L I'm loosing my marbles I think lol
I know what can be done to the 2.5L
t/b and header helps did that to mine and made a big difference!!
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thank you... I guess I will have a look around
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I know this is a older post but I love to drive my 97 wrangler. I has all the pep and grunt I need for now. But always seeking to squeeze out a bit more. It keeps up with any stock 4.0L on the trail and on the freeway. I am not boosting, but just exicted I finally got it to the point its at. I would like to share my mods. First I do only run 31in BFG Muds, for now. Engine mods Home brewed cold/ram air intake with modified factory box with a K&N filter. Air is ram in thru the right head light, with bezel removed. Also air is sucked in from the bottom side of air box, with a small cone shape funnel cut thru fender well right above the shock. No it does not suck in any water or get any more dirt above average. The top of the shock mount acts as a shield. Ran a straight air tube to throttle body wraped in reflective insulated heat wrap which keeps incoming air cool. Bored out throttle body. Top side 60mm, bottom side 52mm. This keeps incoming air under presure. Custom made throttle body spacer with air pressure/velocity air blades also helps keep incoming air presurized. It is also taped at 60mm on top and down to 55mm on bottom side. It is my favorite mod, it out performed other throttle bodys. Remember your engine can only ingest certain amounts of air. I learned thru trail and error that if to much air comes in with no pressure my jeep takes off really fast but loses all torque and top speed. You do need to suck in more air but it needs to stay under pressure. I also run a accel coil which is rated at 48,000 volts, accel 8mm coils, NGK plugs gapped at .038. Stock fan niped and tucked and drilled out blades for lighter and less resistance and quicker windups. Dangerous mod not to go beyond point of no return, such as losing CFM or structaul rigidity. Magnaflow muffler, Cut of end of tail pipe downward elbow and installed a stainless steel tip for straight thru flow, works great. Does not look getto. I also run factory bumpers that are cut short with tapered angles for clearance and wieght reduction and less wind drag. I am considering a electric fan. O yeah I did add a poser stinger to my front bumper, very light and study. For looks only, made of old bunk bed light tubing and coated with bed liner. Strong enough to hold highlift jack. Eiether way she is light, fast and nimble. Next on to do list is under carraige skid plating. O I am looking in making my own aluminum rock sliders with replaceble parts. I like my lil frankenstien. Happy Wheeling.
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I put in a cam and lifter kit when I had mine down, and did the electric fan, too. That was five (?) years ago, and it's going to be freshened this winter. This time, I'll port match intake and exhaust manifolds to the head, and maybe a little relief work around the valves. It's been leaned on pretty hard a time or two, and I screwed up and let it get hot a couple of times- forgot to turn the fan back on after a water "crossing". I should be getting all the power that's in there without artificial induction.
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How do you like that electric fan? Did you have any HP gains
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There are a lot of theories about head porting, the guy that did my
engine does not port match most motors, he claims he gets better
power with the port on the head slightly larger than the intake manifold
and that the step is better than the taper out and taper back of
a pure port match. (On the style ports my YJ used anyway...) and
the head port should be just smaller than the that the header flange and tubes.
He also said there are at least two opinions for every strategy.
He said port matching is one of those total package items and that there is
cheaper lower hanging fruit in the cylinder head than can be done
without a serious flow bench and a few hundred K in finite element
software. A 5 cut valve job, and cutting the guides back for a couple.
He did do some very light touch up to make sure all the casting marks and flaws
were smoothed out.
Oh well just some thoughts...
Dave
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The electric fan frees up HP- the engine driven fan is a huge parasitic draw on a banger. You will notice a difference by way of the seat of the pants dyno.
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Does it also give more power for the TJ, the electroc fan that is?
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Ive read that the electric fans are real loud. can anyone running an e-fan confirm or deny that?
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Ive read that the electric fans are real loud. can anyone running an e-fan confirm or deny that?
No they aren't. Well, unless you run a 2-speed like the Mark VII/Thunderbird/Cougar or Taurus 3.8L which pull high CFM. But that's only on the HS. If you run then on the LS, they are quiet.
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No they aren't. Well, unless you run a 2-speed like the Mark VII/Thunderbird/Cougar or Taurus 3.8L which pull high CFM. But that's only on the HS. If you run then on the LS, they are quiet.
Ditto; I cannot hear mine on low speed over the engine even with the hood open and my head stiking in the engine compartment. on high speed, they ARE a bit loud, but they also move air like there was no tomorrow (in other words, LS is more than enough to keep a 4banger cool).
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Hope this is not to late to add to this part of the forum, but I would like to give my 2 cents in a Mod I did to my jeep about 1 week ago. I had my jeep running pretty good and fast with my existing mods with cold air intake, bored out 2.5L TB, TB spacer, accel coil and wires, NGK plugs gapped at .037, catback with magnaflow muffler, she was moving pretty fast. Then I finally did the 4.0L throttle body swap. Just the factory 4.0L TB not bored. I know some swap to bored TB like 62mm. But anyway just with the factory one I must say WOW what a difference in off the line response, Its like instant. She climbs up to 80 MPH with no problem. On a head wind and uphill she holds her speed at about 65mph. And to top it off I am saving gas, due to not having to push to far down on the pedal. My jeep feels a whole lot better, It feels like a nite and day difference. I highly recomend this swap.
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I finally did the 4.0L throttle body swap. Just the factory 4.0L TB not bored. I know some swap to bored TB like 62mm. But anyway just with the factory one I must say WOW what a difference in off the line response, Its like instant. She climbs up to 80 MPH with no problem. On a head wind and uphill she holds her speed at about 65mph. And to top it off I am saving gas, due to not having to push to far down on the pedal. My jeep feels a whole lot better, It feels like a nite and day difference. I highly recomend this swap.
Really? i did the 62mm TB swap and yes i felt a difference (wait, did i???) and it def wasnt as dramatic a picture as you are painting here. Maybe there is somethin wrong with my 4-popper. The way i see it when it comes to upgrading a 4banger, you do everything available to get a good end result. No one mod is gonna blow you away..engine jugearsst doesnt put out that kind of power. but if you do a bunch of things (gears, fan, cold air, exhaust, header, TB, TB spacer, chip) all that can prob add to a decent power gain.
By the way, for those running the E-Fans, i read you have a high speed and low speed setting, is there anyway to have the settings automatically adjusted? Also, do u have to shut the fan off during water crossings??
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All I am saying it really made it feel alive as a whole, ofcourse its with all my other mods combined. I also agree not one mod is going to give you a big bang by itself. Especially on a 4 banger. It is all just really adding up for me. I do not know If you are referring to me about a e-fan I do not have a electric fan yet. Hey hope you are having a great christmas, O yeah I finally got some discos for christmas. Happy 4 Wheeling.
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By the way, for those running the E-Fans, i read you have a high speed and low speed setting, is there anyway to have the settings automatically adjusted? Also, do u have to shut the fan off during water crossings??
I have a single speed that I ordered from Quadratec years ago. It too is rather quiet, but I have burned up at least two thermostats for it. I finally have it wired with just an on/off switch in the dash for working on the engine, warm ups during winter, and water crossings. Works fine for me that way. Turning it off for water crossing is recommended just to keep the blades of the fan from being pulled into and damaging the radiator. Most electric fans sit right on the radiator as apposed to the mechanical ones that are closer to the engine and use a shroud.
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I have a single speed that I ordered from Quadratec years ago. It too is rather quiet, but I have burned up at least two thermostats for it. I finally have it wired with just an on/off switch in the dash for working on the engine, warm ups during winter, and water crossings. Works fine for me that way. Turning it off for water crossing is recommended just to keep the blades of the fan from being pulled into and damaging the radiator. Most electric fans sit right on the radiator as apposed to the mechanical ones that are closer to the engine and use a shroud.
If you have a thermostat make sure it's on the switch side of the relay. Otherwise, it takes a big hit every time the fan turns on. Most are only able to take 20-30a.
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Does anyone have experience or heard any feedback on the flex-a-lite electric fan
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Does anyone have experience or heard any feedback on the flex-a-lite electric fan
That would be the one that I purchased years ago. Fan has held up great, but the thermostat for it burned up twice and I wired to a switch for the last 6 years with no problems.
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So if I get a flex a lite electric fan would you suggest to skip or over ride the thermostat and go straight to a off and on switch?
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So if I get a flex a lite electric fan would you suggest to skip or over ride the thermostat and go straight to a off and on switch?
use a thermocouple (thermostat contact), you burn HP if you run it constantly
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I honestly do not understand in which way to wire that up?
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use a thermocouple (thermostat contact), you burn HP if you run it constantly
That would be what I burned up twice, or rather the electronics that were also included with it for the thermocouples relay. To be fair, it took about a year to burn through each one, and they were installed according the manufactures instructions. They were cheap enough, and I think one was even warrentied, but I got tired of replacing them. Under most conditions, I have the fan off. I have found that I only really need it when crawling, stuck in mostly stopped traffic, and during the hottest months of summer here in the south.
I honestly do not understand in which way to wire that up?
I simply ran a wire that was hot when the ignition was on to the fan with an inline fuze and the right sized relay (amp wise). Then ran a wire to a toggle swith in the dash to operate the relay. Properly grounded everything and have had no problems since.
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I Got you, I understand now. Thanks for that info. I am still saving for a electric fan It might take awhile. I will hang on to this info. Thanks happy 4 wheeling have a happy new year.
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I simply ran a wire that was hot when the ignition was on to the fan with an inline fuze and the right sized relay (amp wise). Then ran a wire to a toggle swith in the dash to operate the relay. Properly grounded everything and have had no problems since.
It would have been better to run the +12V from the battery and not to a +12V Keyed source. If the fan is high-amp, you'll probably be pulling those amps through smaller gauge wiring.
Run the +12V from the battery and use a fuse or circuit breaker about 6-8" away. If you want the fan to turn off when the ignition is off then use the +12V switch circuit to a keyed source and run the switch inline with that.
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It would have been better to run the +12V from the battery and not to a +12V Keyed source. If the fan is high-amp, you'll probably be pulling those amps through smaller gauge wiring.
Run the +12V from the battery and use a fuse or circuit breaker about 6-8" away. If you want the fan to turn off when the ignition is off then use the +12V switch circuit to a keyed source and run the switch inline with that.
I probably did. There are a couple of relays attached to the firewall, and after 8 or so years, I'll be dogged if I remember where they all go! :lol: And remember, only the swith is wired to a keyed sorce, the relay it opperates runs from the battery.
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I just might hold off on that electric fan for a bit. I just bored out the bottom side of my 4.0L TB swap, and only went from factory 55mm to a mere 57mm and did make a nice difference. Smoother idle, smoother more controled crawl speed, instant quicker offline take off. Reaching higher rpms quicker and reaching top speeds faster. Along with maintaining highway speeds with less throttle. I am not saying this mod works all alone, but sure did enhance all other mods and work great as a whole. I think I am ready to go rockracing, HA HA. I highly recomend this upgrade along with boring out your intake manifold to macth.
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I installed a flexalite fan about a year and half back when I swapped out my engine. I have had good luck with it so far ( knock on wood). I did wire mine up to the power distrubution off of the battery according to the installation instructions, and have not had any issues so far with the thermostat. I would do it again if I ever got another jeep.
Good luck
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Thanks I will keep that electric fan on the back burner for now. And will remember how to wire it up.
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The TB swap helped mine immensly. The electric fan made no difference with the engine. I'm thinking about putting the cat killers back on.
On a side note, I had to adjust my auto transmission kickdown cable after putting the TB and spacer on.
Never saw that mentioned and thought I'd pass that on for the auto tranny guys. (01 TJ 30RH)
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The TB swap helped mine immensly. The electric fan made no difference with the engine. I'm thinking about putting the cat killers back on.
On a side note, I had to adjust my auto transmission kickdown cable after putting the TB and spacer on.
Never saw that mentioned and thought I'd pass that on for the auto tranny guys. (01 TJ 30RH)
You should have noticed the engine spooling up faster. Although that might be lost since you have an automatic. I notice it the most when I'm launching from a stop. I bet the harmonic balancer is hiding it though.
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The electric fan made no difference with the engine.
interesting. i found a noticeable improvement with the electric fan.... as jeffy said could be a auto vs manual trany thing since its manly spool speed..
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Yeah, the torque converter on the 3 spd keeps the RPMs almost constant. I can see where it would hide any gains from the fan swap.
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you'll notice on the mpg as well (given that you don't run the fan at all times and that it is on a thermocouple or temp controlled unit like DCC).
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Has anyone had any experience in a flex fan. What are the pros on cons with flex VS electric?
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Has anyone had any experience in a flex fan. What are the pros on cons with flex VS electric?
Cons; it's engine driven. You can't turn it off in water crossings, it will flex. Still have to use the big shroud. Blades can break. For dependability, no one uses them.
Plus; it's engine driven. Comes in cool colors...
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you'll notice on the mpg as well (given that you don't run the fan at all times and that it is on a thermocouple or temp controlled unit like DCC).
I did have it set up that way, but I wasn't getting consistant cooling. I changed to on with the key (thru relays of course). I haven't run it that way yet. I have a FoMoCo 2 speed fan from a 3.0 Taurus.
Maybe my temp sensor is not in a good place.
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I did have it set up that way, but I wasn't getting consistant cooling. I changed to on with the key (thru relays of course). I haven't run it that way yet. I have a FoMoCo 2 speed fan from a 3.0 Taurus.
Maybe my temp sensor is not in a good place.
let's say 20 amps draw at 13.7 volts = 274 watts = 0.274KW * 1.34 = 0.367HP
that's how much you lose, not a lot but there is a loss. The mechanical fan would use more, but if you run it all the time the difference is less since your alternator will be using power to provide current for the fan.