4bangerjp.com
General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: lokitim on April 25, 2010, 09:34:22 AM
-
I know this topic has been asked & answered, so many times.....But, mine is not working right. I have a '93 with a '95 motor, I got a TB from a '94 Cherokee. I just installed today & starts right up, though runs at 4k rpms (turned right off). Was i suppose to use sensors from 2.5 TB, or keep the 4.0 ones on? I have read different results on this. I undertsand it takes a few minutes for ECM to recognize new part, but didn't want to run that high rpm too long. I did disconnect battery for a few minutes, how long should I really do this for to reset computer?
Thanks for your help.....
-
I know this topic has been asked & answered, so many times.....But, mine is not working right. I have a '93 with a '95 motor, I got a TB from a '94 Cherokee. I just installed today & starts right up, though runs at 4k rpms (turned right off). Was i suppose to use sensors from 2.5 TB, or keep the 4.0 ones on? I have read different results on this. I undertsand it takes a few minutes for ECM to recognize new part, but didn't want to run that high rpm too long. I did disconnect battery for a few minutes, how long should I really do this for to reset computer?
Thanks for your help.....
you need to transfer everything from your 2.5L t/b - the IAC valve and housing (don't forget this one) and the throttle position sensor. Once you do that your engine will work properly.
-
You will get a lot more bang for your buck if you bore out the intake manifold to match the TB opening. I've been amazed at the power difference (I am running a 4.0L TB that was bored out even more than normal)
-
As previously mentioned, change the IAS housing and motor. The butterfly on these throttle bodies close completely at idle. There is a bypass passage above/below the butterfly that allows idle air around the butterfly at idle. The 2.5 housing has a smaller hole(to allow less air) than the 4.0 and the plunger on the IAS for the 2.5 is smaller to match this hole. Using a 2.5L IAS in a 4.0 housing will not work because the plunger cannot seal the larger hole effectively. This housing has Security torqx fasteners so you will need a special bit for them, if I remember correctly its T20 size. The security torqx have a little teat in the center so the bit will have to have a small hole in the end of it.
Some one dynoed the results of different combinations here a while back and there is a major difference if you bore out the intake manifold to match the throttle body.
I personally would recommend using a die grinder with a carbide bit to do the roughing out and using a sanding drum to polish it. I also recommend pulling the intake manifold off the vehicle to do so as it would be hard to keep all the aluminum from going through the engine even if you stuff rags down there. I laid a new tb gasket on top of the manifold, aligning it with the holes and then using a magic marker mark the inside diameter of the gasket onto the manifold. Grind out to that mark, beveling and smoothing everything back to the runners.
Also if you have it off you can pull the injectors and smooth/bevel the intake runners where they meet the head as mine did not match the intake ports at all. you will see where the gasket doesn't touch around the inside perimeter of the runners.
My throttle position sensor was a real pain to remove and would recommend squirting it with a good penitrant(not wd 40) and even a little heat from a small butane torch on the housing where the screws enter(be carefull, don't over heat.
My 91 has a MAP sensor on the fire wall so I removed the one mounted on the 4.0 throttle body and capped the nipple off. I think yours should be on the throttle body however(not positive)
My results were significant. I live on the windy plains of Indiana, where they have the largest wind farm in the US.
Before the head winds would keep me at 50-55 almost full throttle. Now I have plenty of power, have even caught myself speeding at 65 in the head winds without even feeling it. My MPGs have improved 1-2mpg as well. Last tank I got was at 23mpg.
While your at it I highly recommend removing the exhaust manifold, checking for cracks or missing/broke bolts and installing a felpro full intake/exhaust manifold gasket. Its available at napa. It will seal the exhaust manifold better and insure that your O2 sensor is not getting a lean signal from an air leak. The bolts/nut(remember to use a nickle or copper based anti seize) should be torqued to 23ft lbs starting in the center and working your way out evenly. Most important thing to keep from loosing bolts from the manifold is to go back and retorque those bolts/nuts after a few heat/cool cycles. I did require a crowsfoot to torque the front nut by the power steering mount but a dog bone would have been better. Remember when using a dog bone or crowsfoot that it most be oriented 90 degrees to the torque wrench to get a correct torque. Orienting it straight out will lower the torque. There are calculators out there that calculate the actual torque at the fastener based on the length of the dogbone/crowsfoot so you can set the torque wrench correctly to take this into account if you cant set it at 90 degrees
-
Thanks all, changed sensors & now all is good!! Will open intake manifold at a later date.....don't have tools right now.
-
Some one dynoed the results of different combinations here a while back and there is a major difference if you bore out the intake manifold to match the throttle body.
for the 4.0L t/b you don't need to enlarge the intake opening (it's big enough) - at least that's what it was on my '95 YJ and other intakes I looked at. the stock 4.0L t/b is tapered on the bottom to something like 56mm (it is about 60mm up top).
if you have a 62mm then yes, you need to enlarge it to take full advantage on it.
My 91 has a MAP sensor on the fire wall so I removed the one mounted on the 4.0 throttle body and capped the nipple off. I think yours should be on the throttle body however(not positive)
all the YJs had the MAP on the firewall as far as i know, my 1995 was on the firewall as well
-
My 91 was to small for the throttle body. They are cast so maybe core shift or core size has something to do with it. At work its amazing the differences in castings when they come in rough from the foundry. Some features can be off by 2mm or more between castings poured in succession.
-
My 91 was to small for the throttle body. They are cast so maybe core shift or core size has something to do with it. At work its amazing the differences in castings when they come in rough from the foundry. Some features can be off by 2mm or more between castings poured in succession.
i was wondering if i was wrong or something since i saw that oldjeep said the same thing. I remember that on my intake there was no need to bore out. I have an intake from a '94 in the garage, so i measured it: it is 54.90 mm in diameter. I measured a 4.0L t/b and it is 55.50 mm,
so that would create a 0.30 mm lip around the bottom of t/b - that is 0.055'' or somewhere more than 3/64 and less than 1/16 - pretty small difference but there would be a lip there in this case. Could be what you say though as the one on the Jeep was at least the same size (or maybe the t/b was a bit smaller).
-
i was wondering if i was wrong or something since i saw that oldjeep said the same thing. I remember that on my intake there was no need to bore out. I have an intake from a '94 in the garage, so i measured it: it is 54.90 mm in diameter. I measured a 4.0L t/b and it is 55.50 mm,
so that would create a 0.30 mm lip around the bottom of t/b - that is 0.055'' or somewhere more than 3/64 and less than 1/16 - pretty small difference but there would be a lip there in this case. Could be what you say though as the one on the Jeep was at least the same size (or maybe the t/b was a bit smaller).
Minimal difference. There will also be a gap where the gasket is since the gasket opening is much larger.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_NUT3v0pNW04/S9Otbfx0pXI/AAAAAAAANkI/Hgd731-8uNg/s720/DSC_0046.jpg)
You can see the carbon/oil/goo ring marking where the gasket was.
In order: Stock 4.0L/ 64mm / 2.5L
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_NUT3v0pNW04/S9Otbue_dTI/AAAAAAAANkM/GNGZFI-6T54/s720/DSC_0034.jpg)
-
I bored mine out to 64mm also. both tb and intake
-
Evidently there are differences in the manifolds. My 91 manifold did not that that ridge on the bottom either but was flat on the floor of the interior of the manifold. Even if there is only a small sharp edge of 1/16 it can cause quite a turbulence in airflow. Turbulence helps with low speed torque (which isn't lacking with the 2.5 throttle body) but hurts in high speed horsepower which is what we are trying to help.
-
(http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz239/Torch_Ind/random/SSPX0887.jpg)
this is off two different yj's 4 cylinders
-
Evidently there are differences in the manifolds. My 91 manifold did not that that ridge on the bottom either but was flat on the floor of the interior of the manifold. Even if there is only a small sharp edge of 1/16 it can cause quite a turbulence in airflow. Turbulence helps with low speed torque (which isn't lacking with the 2.5 throttle body) but hurts in high speed horsepower which is what we are trying to help.
you're right, better without the lip sticking out - less restrictions, better flow.
i think your manifold is probably an older style.
(http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz239/Torch_Ind/random/SSPX0887.jpg)
this is off two different yj's 4 cylinders
never seen that left side before - seems a better choice - the one on the right is what i have, the portion right under the seat is rounded nicely towards the intake runs, how's the other one in that respect?
-
I have been reading alot about 4.0 tb upgrade but thought the intake was the only opening to be enlarged. Do both the intake and lower tb opening need to be enlarged to 64mm??
-
you're right, better without the lip sticking out - less restrictions, better flow.
i think your manifold is probably an older style.
never seen that left side before - seems a better choice - the one on the right is what i have, the portion right under the seat is rounded nicely towards the intake runs, how's the other one in that respect?
'91 must be a year into itself as mine is a '92 (built in Nov '91). I'm going to guess the one that's not square at the TB is a late model. '95.
-
I have a '95 YJ and I have the intake on the left (looking at the picture). I am in the process of cleaning it up right now and will be opening it up for a 64mm tb this week. I guess '95s got lots of different parts some YJ some TJ depending on the line and the day it came off.
-
I have a '95 YJ and I have the intake on the left (looking at the picture). I am in the process of cleaning it up right now and will be opening it up for a 64mm tb this week. I guess '95s got lots of different parts some YJ some TJ depending on the line and the day it came off.
Well, TJ's use a intake then the YJ's as there is no port for the MAP. Most of the weird YJ's were '95.5's and not '95's as the '95's carried over into 1996. That's when you start seeing stuff like the dual diaphragm boosters, pucks on the hoods and upgraded tailgate hinges among other things.
Anyone have a '93 or '94 and can confirm?
-
Well, TJ's use a intake then the YJ's as there is no port for the MAP. Most of the weird YJ's were '95.5's and not '95's as the '95's carried over into 1996. That's when you start seeing stuff like the dual diaphragm boosters, pucks on the hoods and upgraded tailgate hinges among other things.
Anyone have a '93 or '94 and can confirm?
I've got a 94 and my Map is on the firewall.
-
(http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz239/Torch_Ind/random/SSPX0887.jpg)
this is off two different yj's 4 cylinders
Mine was made in Oct. 95. I have the non square style intake (the one on the right looking at the pic). I have the TJ rubber pucks on the hood, and TJ style tailgate hinges. But I missed out on the brake booster. :brick:
-
They get weird. I believe mine is a 95.5 it has the square intake, pucks on the hood, and a plugged MAP port on the tb.
-
They get weird. I believe mine is a 95.5 it has the square intake, pucks on the hood, and a plugged MAP port on the tb.
Might just be a 1995.5 thing. Some 1995.5's don't have everything but rather have some things that are older depending on when exactly it was made.
-
I've got a 94 and my Map is on the firewall.
Was your intake the square or the round one? They should all have the MAP on the firewall.
-
I have been reading alot about 4.0 tb upgrade but thought the intake was the only opening to be enlarged. Do both the intake and lower tb opening need to be enlarged to 64mm??
the 4.0L tb is 60mm at the top and 56mm at the bottom. you can bore out the bottom side of the t/b to 60 mm but not with a dremel or holesaw - it has to be done on a lathe or milling machine. The 62, 63 and 64mm throttle bodies are machined and enlarged from top to bottom, they require a larger butterfly to match the new diameter.
-
My spare '94 engine and my '95.5 both have the rounded base for the TB, FWIW.
I wouldn't waste your time with a 4.0L TB, go with an overbore like a 62mm for the large increase in throttle response and airflow.
-
Was your intake the square or the round one? They should all have the MAP on the firewall.
my 95 is the rounded one, same with a '94 intake that i have as a spare.
all YJs had the MAP on the firewall, would probably work with either one but the wiring would be in a different location and the plug is different also, so my guess is that's why there was no YJ with a MAP on the t/b when they start mixing them up.
-
my 95 is the rounded one, same with a '94 intake that i have as a spare.
all YJs had the MAP on the firewall, would probably work with either one but the wiring would be in a different location and the plug is different also, so my guess is that's why there was no YJ with a MAP on the t/b when they start mixing them up.
They moved the MAP for 1996 XJ's and 1997 TJ's.
Seems strange that they would implement a new intake design at teh end unless they were seeing if they could lighten it or maybe cut cost on it so they could see if it would work on the TJ's before they came out.
-
My 95.5 YJ stock 2.5L TB had the MAP port on the TB, with a vacuum cap. Also had a goofy crossbreed of a mainshaft in the transfer case, didn't use caged bearings like earlier YJ's, the sprocket spun straight on the shaft like TJ's and SYE's, yet the rest of the mainshaft was pure YJ.
-
Speaking of throttle bodies. wth am i supposed to do about my 1990 2.5? there isnt shizzzle for em!!
i have one that i cannot test so i don't know how and if it works but if you're up for some testing send me a PM - have a look here http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,8142.msg64698.html#msg64698
-
I have a '94 2.5 YJ with the manifold on the left.
Today I swapped my TB with one of a 4.0L.
The flange opening in the manifold is about 56mm and the outlet of the 4.0L TB is 56mm.
By only swapping the TB's I increase the minimum air intake diameter from 48mm (outlet opening from the 2.5L TB) to 56mm.
I drove just a bit along the countryside today so cannot yet tell if it is a big improvement on the highway with a strong head wind. ;)
I guess if you go to a full bore without changing the injectors, fuelpressure valve and possible O2 sensor, you might not gain extra power? :puzzled:
-
Speaking of throttle bodies. wth am i supposed to do about my 1990 2.5? there isnt shizzzle for em!!
Sure there is, just do the MPI conversion like this http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=950222&highlight=multi+port+injection. Not an easy swap, and in hindsight, not really worth it.
-
I have a '94 2.5 YJ with the manifold on the left.
Today I swapped my TB with one of a 4.0L.
The flange opening in the manifold is about 56mm and the outlet of the 4.0L TB is 56mm.
By only swapping the TB's I increase the minimum air intake diameter from 48mm (outlet opening from the 2.5L TB) to 56mm.
I drove just a bit along the countryside today so cannot yet tell if it is a big improvement on the highway with a strong head wind. ;)
I guess if you go to a full bore without changing the injectors, fuelpressure valve and possible O2 sensor, you might not gain extra power? :puzzled:
no point in changing the injectors unless you find them cheap - fuel pressure will be sufficient in your case. You should have some improvement but you need to make sure there are no other restrictions in the airflow (get a high flow filter, remove the tube in the airbox cover (called a velocity insert) and the inlet tube going into the bottom of the airbox.
not sure what you mean about full bore if that is a 4.0L t/b, or a 62/64mm throttle body - if that's what you meant then indeed you'll get better output by increasing fuel delivery, again the fuel pressure would be sufficient if you're only interested in wide open throttle performance, otherwise you're in closed loop and the O2 sensor feedback will cause the ECU/PCM to adjust fuel delivery and target 14.7AFR
-
didn't the ford injectors have multiple noises resulting in better fuel atomization. which would be an advantage (even if a small one) over the stock one nozzle injectors?
-
didn't the ford injectors have multiple noises resulting in better fuel atomization. which would be an advantage (even if a small one) over the stock one nozzle injectors?
i can guarantee you that if you compare 2 brand new sets setup at the same set AFR at wot you will not see any differences between them as far as produced power is concerned.
the design is different, the stock one is pintle and the ford are disc (if i remember correctly) - the latter has better response (less inertia) and like you said better atomization - can't tell you if that would benefit the Jeep 2.5 or not but i would say yes from what others have reported - the spray pattern and intake runners shape and size are matched so sometimes even if an injector is better you might not get the full benefit of it's features as it was not designed for that specific cylinder head and intake - but like i said, in this case from what i heard it works.