Topic: locker theory

[SMC4WD]

LOL  Someone once said "Lockers get you stuck, a winch gets you un-stuck"

Jeffy's right...   Having lockers (fornt and/or rear) only gets you further into the trail, and yes...  gives you this fasle sense of security.

But way in the beginning I mentioned that 'Super35' kit.  That could give a bit more rear axle strength, and something valuable to sell at a later date.

[chrisfranklin]

Would be interesting to see, but wonder how many of those folks who break their D35s were running a locker in the Rear, only.

Yeah, how many of those photos in your D35c FAQ write-up do you think were doing just the forementioned. Not going to put you on spot with your own experiences...  

Didn't hear that answer...  That's what I thought.  

[wrangler387]

Well if anyone plans to keep the D35c, definately truss it.

[chrisfranklin]

I am probably going to simultaneously install front and rear Aussies on my rig with 29" tires, 4 cyl, and using D35c.  Probably never run more than 30-31" tires, so no plans to regear or do some kind of TerraLow either.

I'm probably not going to encounter too much rain, snow, ice in Southern California other than if I go snow-skiing, so the auto lockers don't scare me off too much.  Aussies have reviewed well, quiet, strong, warranty regardless of engine, tire-size, etc.  Frankly, I am not sure why the US distributor is not pricing them at about $350 per, rather than $230.  But, hey, ain't going to gripe.  

I may swap D35 shafts to the 30 spline, hell may even do a truss too.  Don't have a lot of options here swapping axles, no garage, aftermarket work is expensive here.  

But, I am kind of the mind that 2 lockers are the way to go to  "keep the 'weight' off the bad knee" that is the D35c.  Just have to moderate driver behavior (course with the meager ground clearance afforeded by 29" tires, am only going to go so far anyway  

[Jeffy]

If you're sticking with 29's then you aren't really doing anything that will break the D35 unless you plan on jumping it.  Those tires are too small to give you adaquate traction for anything more then a 2-2.5 rated Trail.

I've heard of D35's breaking while in 2wd on the street with 31's.  As for the D35 article, none of them are on 29's.  :wink:

[chrisfranklin]

Yeah, but, as for the D35 FAQ photos, those guys were all using rear lockers only weren't they?  Et Tu, Jeffe with regards to your premier D35 axle break on too large tires? :)  :D  

I've heard of D35's breaking while in 2wd on the street with 31's. As for the D35 article, none of them are on 29's.  

Yeah, but the guy who broke his D35 with the 31's while in 2wd was running an auto locker in the rear (probably a Detroit) only, rather than an open differential wasn't he?  And, was he running a 4 cyl? And, he was probably about 75 years old, right (...more like 23 and driving like he was going to live forever)?

33's and 35's are nice and a little more foot-print, sure, but they are only buying you 2-3 inches of additional ground-clearance over 29s besides just looking cool...  They've got guys in India with hangnails longer than 2 inches  

[chrisfranklin]

You get some staun deflators and watch your line on the trail, too, if you are on smaller tires.

Every trail I've done around LA, "Miller Jeep," "Rowher" and the milder "Pilot Rock"  was with no lockers and 29s and are a 3-4 on a 5 scale, so I dunno about this 2-2.5 crap.  Nahh, I ain't going to drive out and do "the Hammers" once auto-locked front/rear. But, 29s are usable, especially Revos. Does their small size look good? Nah... But, I don't think tires start looking worth a shit on a Jeep until you get to 31s. The 29s work good and my 4 ain't struggling.  

With autolockers you can do those same trails going slow uphill and you are never getting out, in advance, to find a line you can handle, unlocked.
Frankly, wouldn't be surprised if, locked front and rear, the Jeep4 and D35 could consistently handle the lower end of the list of some of California's/ Southwest's hardest trails. :P   Rubicon Snubicon

[Jeffy]

Yeah, but, as for the D35 FAQ photos, those guys were all using rear lockers only weren't they?  Et Tu, Jeffe with regards to your premier D35 axle break on too large tires? :)  :D  

You're just beating a dead hrose if you're tring to get people to climb aboard your stage coach.

Yeah, but the guy who broke his D35 with the 31's while in 2wd was running an auto locker in the rear (probably a Detroit) only, rather than an open differential wasn't he?  And, was he running a 4 cyl? And, he was probably about 75 years old, right (...more like 23 and driving like he was going to live forever)?

33's and 35's are nice and a little more foot-print, sure, but they are only buying you 2-3 inches of additional ground-clearance over 29s besides just looking cool...  They've got guys in India with hangnails longer than 2 inches  

As for 33's and 35's. you're gaining twice the contact patch with a 33 then you would with a 29.  That means instead of slipping and sliding you're actually moving.  Ground clearance on a deflated 29 vs. a deflated 33 or even a 35 is pretty big.

If you ran a Detroit you wouldn't say that.  They are pretty smooth unlike lunchbox lockers like the Auzzie, EZ and Lock-right.  You're more likely to break with a Lunchbox then a Detroit.

[chrisfranklin]

As for 33's and 35's. you're gaining twice the contact patch with a 33 then you would with a 29.

A 29" (235/75 15) Bridgestone AT Revo is about 9 inches in width.  A 33" Revo (285/75) is 11.5 inches across; a 2.5 inch width difference or about a 25-30% width increase.  (C) circumference=Pi x D and C goes up with the 33s too.  C on the 33s shows an increase of about 12 inches or about a 15% circumference increase.  

The area of the contact patch when going from 29s to 33s Revos shows an increase of about, at most, 40% when math is done; and there is no significant percentage change in the difference when airing out the larger or smaller diamteter tires.  

Around a 40% contact patch increase is nothing to sneeze at, for sure.  But we're not talking twice the contact patch by any means, unless we're dealing with some kind of too-wide mud tire or something where the tire width doubles when moving from 29-33... :roll:  :D

And, for chrissakes you have to add probably 300 pounds or 10%  to the weight of your rig to get a 40% contact patch increase due to weight of sturdier wheels/tires/suspension lift & possibly more needed as part of the 33 upgrade.  And, you end up with a higher center of gravity, to boot

Frankly, will just air-out, keep weight down, and intake up

[Jeffy]

Well, we're talking standard 33's.  12.5" wide.  Also keep in mind that when airing down, you do not air down small tires nearly as much as you would with a larger tire.  This is because you're giving up ground clearance that you don't have to give up.  I wouldn't really air down a tire under 30" lower 15-18 psi.  While with larger tires, I've gone down as low as 8-9psi.

Also, that unsprung weight will help when the going gets really rough.  The weight will keep the tire in contact with the ground.  In this case it's a good thing.  CG is also kept pretty low also.

[midnightcwby]

chrisfranklin
 If it interests you; due to my driving style, and intended use of my jeep, my buddy Mike (owner of Twisted Metal) recommended a pair of Lock-Rite's for my D30/D35 setup.  I'm sure if you drive like I do (I've been a mechanic in a dealership for years. I don't like to have to fix my own stuff too so I don't miss-use the hardware!), you shouldn't have a lot of problems.

I like my jeep. I don't hurt her unnecessarily. I don't keep the foot in it when traction breaks so I don't break things when I suddenly grab a buried root or rock with a lug and surprise a drive axle.  The drive line doesn’t like surprises while it's spinning faster than the jeep is moving for sure!  Axles tend to part company if this happens too many times, and that's only one of the many things you can break practicing this ‘technique’.

I guess if you don't drive it like you hate it, your D30/35 will last you longer with proper love and care.  But, if you get off on destruction, and exhibit this kind of mechanical mutilation behavior, an axle swap might be a wise choice for you then.  You'll probably just break something bigger or more expensive later though...

[wrangler387]

Anyone see that detroit 30 spline dana 35 locker that was on ebay for $300? It was slightly used, but hell if i see something like that alittle down the road i might go with a super35 set-up. 30 spline axles are only like 225 i think. I could fab up a bolt on truss pretty easily i think. I've heard the R&P breaking with the super35 set-up, but i've only seen the 4.88s break. If i was planning to stick with the 4.10s, maybe 4.56s... that would help with that issue right? I definately don't beat on my vehicle either as it is a daily.

[SMC4WD]

Sometimes it is best to not beat a dead horse (as Jeffy put it).  Different drivers and different obstacles, different weather conditions and different lines are all taken into consideration.  A D35 could last a lifetime for some people.  While others can get into their rig, drive into a Quigly Wiggly and BANG! there she goes.

What I use are stats...  not written down stats, but people stats...   most people I know have broken a D35 with moderate to hard off road use.  As well as in the street.

No-one on the site bashes, and I won't do it either.  I suggest go with your instincts.  Go with what you feel right.  It's a Jeep...  There are soo many different avenues one can take, and that's one of the biggest selling points on the Jeep.  

No where in So. Cal are you?  There are a million shops down there.  Ya, alot of them are expensive, welcome to SoCal...  But Currie, Dynatrac, Tri-county, Alloy USA, and Superior name only a few.  4 Wheel Parts horde that marketplace.

[chrisfranklin]

Hear what you are saying, SMC4WD.

But, just for the information, though, did the guys you know who broke their D35 do it while running front & rear lockers, front-only, rear-only, open front/rear, welded (not going to ask about their tire-size, gearing, engine size/power or other factors that tend to contribute)? :?

[SMC4WD]

Two of them had factory trac-loks...

One was on a gravel road, that gripped better than he thought, the other was in a parking lot.

I can't speak for the others, but I've been one 3-4 different Jeep/4WD forums...  

Also the two were in two at the time...