Topic: Should I take on the YJ leaf-spring suspension?

[chrisfranklin]

After doing Lockwood/Miller Jeep with Chris Zeitler, I saw how good his TJ was handling the trail, basically articulating and keeping four wheels on the ground.  Chris wasn't running Lockers, but he and Elizabeth were easily handling a trail that my YJ just could not do completely without a Locker.  

My YJs running:
-stock leafsprings
-No sway disconnect
-track bars in place
-No body or suspension lift
-Aussie Dana 30

I'd like to go for a Dana 35 Aussie, because the front Aussie has worked as advertised.  Figure even if the YJ suspension is not as good as the TJ, I'll at least probably always have traction with 2 lockers.  Feel like the second, rear locker for $400 installed is the cheapest way to make sure I can crawl along most trails Slowly in the YJ; maybe spring for some diff guards, rockers and other armor, too, to offset the low clearance.

Feel like modding the suspension/tires and corresponding mods to gearing, other than maybe using sway disconnects,  is going to run up a big, several thousand dollar bill since DIY is pretty much out of the question for me.  And, if I stick with leaf-springs, don't think they are ever going to work as well as the TJ coil spring setup.

So, should I take on the YJ leaf-spring suspension (its going to cost 3-4k to turn the thing in to a lifted, TJ coil spring job, right?) or just leave it as is and go with a two locker, armored, YJ body-dragger that may have a winch before too long? I'm kind of leaning towards the latter.  

[Jeffy]

Should I take on the YJ leaf-spring suspension (its going to cost 3-4k to turn the thing in to a lifted, TJ coil spring job, right?) or just leave it as is and go with a two locker, armored, YJ body-dragger that may have a winch before too long? I'm kind of leaning towards the latter.  

Time for some lift.  If it was me I'd do it right and go SOA then move up to 33's.  The Pro-Comp coil kit isn't really designed for offroad.  That's the only standard coil and shock kit.  Warn made the XCL coil-over which Black Diamond sells.  It's expensive to purchase and expensive to install.  You have to cut off a bunch of brackets and even then the T-case hangs lower then stock.  RE sells a 1/4 elliptical kit but I'm not sure if I'd put that on a daily driver.  Fabtech has a coil front and SOA rear which is pretty neat.  Although $$$$ too.

I think it's time for some lift.  I'd go with a 2.5" OME which will flex like a TJ.  Although if it was me, I'd go with a SOA and 33's.  A OME will only cost $1200 and won't require any fabrication.  For a SOA, you'd really want to have someone around who know's what they're doing.  Or else do your research.

Other thing to consider.  Your shackles and hangers are too tight, binding the leafs.  Stock shock will limit your suspension as wella s the brakelines, I mentioned earlier.  There are a lot of inexpensive tweaks you can do.  29" tires won't cut it. Especially if they're jsut oversized car tires.   Move up to 31's and go with a more agressive tire.

[chrisfranklin]

I like OME.  So that's $1200 + install.  Then I go 33's + wheels, thats another $1200-1500 + install at least, if you don't go overboard with your selections. Then I regear, probably $500 + install.  So that's $3000-3500.  
Then you'll probably have other issue, like drive shaft angle and like you, said, you'll probably want an axle in the rear, too.  Geez man, J.E.E.P.!

[Jeffy]

Well, a 2.5" OEM will clear 32's but be tight for 33 with that much flex.  If you stick with 31's you won't need to regear.  For 2.5" you can keep the stock slip yoke.  2.5" and 31's is one of the big cut off points.

[larryp]

Don't forget to get rid of the trackbars. Getting rid of mine really helped keep the tires in contact with the ground.

[Jeffy]

Don't forget to get rid of the trackbars. Getting rid of mine really helped keep the tires in contact with the ground.

I missed that part.

Track bars on a YJ are only there to stiffen the suspension by binding it as it tries to cycle.  If you cycle the suspension hard enough, you can break the track bar mount or if you're lucky just break the the bolt. When one tire picks up, both will lift, leaving you with no traction unless you have a locker.

The front trackbar does do one thing.  When lifting a Jeep, the steering geometry changes and the distance between the pitman arm and the tie-rod end changes. Then when the suspension compresses, the distance reduces and the Jeep will want to turn left.  Then as it extends, it will then want to turn right.  This is called Bump-steer.  The Trackbar reduces this because it's able to bind the suspension a bit.  It's not a cure though.

The rear trackbar is there to balance out the suspension.  I highly recommend removing both next time.

[SMC4WD]

I find it hard to believe that that OME suspension is that much.  But well worth it for both off raod and city driving.  

JKS makes swaybar disconnects and adjustable trackbars...  But I've been driving everywhere with 35's and no swaybar or trackbars...  So for what it's worth, bail 'em.

Jeffy pointed out a few things that are very important to the suspension, and loosened shackles are a great way to gain dampening and articulation.

Now Chris, you're adding in a dollar amount for gearing...  That's going to be a given no matter what suspension you choose.  From a simple spring over, to the major undertaking of the 4-coil conversion.

Then there's the spring over thing...  Very inexpensive.  Very, very cool regarding $$ vs. height...  but some things must be considered.  You'll need longer shocks and brake lines, just like any other (really big) suspension lift.  You'll need a longer rear driveline.  But most importantly, two things that are never considered of a spring over.  
#1. The springs weren't designed to be on top of the axle.  By mounting them up on the top, they have a tendancy to want to S shape on you.  This creates huge amounts of axle twist.  Your rear u-joint salesman will love you!!  
#2. Cut and turn the front axle...  No-one I know gets this.  Most guys who do spring overs do this...  See, you lifting the Jeep up to 5".  The front driveline angle doesn't change unless you change it.  Degree shims will get the front drive line from vibrating, but then the upper/lower ball joints are out of spec.  You can't get one in spec without getting the other one out of spec.  Not unless you cut the ends of the axles and turn the ends to the correct specs.  

Now sprung over with 2.5" OME springs...  MMmmmm  7.5", 35's!!  Major articulation!!  

Toyota's springs are the same length as Wrangler springs.  Leonard's Off Road in Oregon is springing over with those springs...  Reduces alot of the axle wrap associated with the YJ springs.

_____

Here's my coil spring/leaf spring theory...   Coils extend all the wat like this (picture arm spread as wide as they can go).  And they compress like this (picture hands within inches of each other).  Who needs that??  Leaf springs are solid!!  No messing around!!  Old school and proud of it.  I went four wheeling with a guy with a Rubicon Long Arm kit on his TJ.  He had a wide mouth cup of coffee, filled to the brim, and he's pinkie sticking out as he was progressing up the hill.  Me on the other hand, I had to get a run at the hill...  I was bumpin' and bangin'.  I backed up and banged at it again.  Finally made it to the top of the same hill.  The way I saw it, I was the better driver.  I made it up the hill with finesse, skill and knowledge.  He made it up the hill with money!

(the above story was made up...  mostly to make me look good.  But the theory holds true.)

[Enjoi]

what no points for pinkie?

[j-freak153]

4.5"RE EXTREME DUTY spring under w/ no track bars is the only way to do it...ride is almost factory if not better and you can fit 35s on it...

[jagular7]

If I had a YJ, I would figure about lifting the front high enough to get a better approach angle on those shackles. SOA is probably the best, but gives way too much for clearing 33's. But then as you step up in tire size, you'll find out how well the axles hold the weight. So keep it under/near 33's with best lift combination.
Here's my suggestion without trial: 3" lift springs, correct length shackle (most shackles are short or long for the length of the spring when flatten), Deaver Spring Baja bushing in the frame-eye only (http://www.deaverspring.com/BajaBushing.htm), longer shocks w/ better shock mounting location, 1-1.5" body lift, TJ flares, shorter bump stops for increased upward movement (not to have tire contact body at full compression w/ front tire turning - requires better offset rim), proper spring clamps so leafs have less friction to slide against each other, remove track bars from both axles, run quick-discos for front, remove rear sway bar from rear, better u-bolt/plate design, better belly pan skid plate, body mount protection, gas tank protection, and I would think you would be set for suspension. If you really want to skid across rocks, also wedge cut your kickpanel with plate tied to front and middle roll bar down sections. This could be fabbed to protect the body mounts also. This will add several inches of clearance under the kick panels for better clearance. Don't forget to wrap your rear bumper around to match with the flare to protect the rear quarter. If you want trim that rear quarter up to match the kickpanel wedge for a better look.

Some of these suggestions are in a working YJ now.

[Jeffy]

SOA is probably the best, but gives way too much for clearing 33's.

 :shock:  It is?  33's will give you a lot of room for flex and you'll use it all.  To clear 35's you'll want another 1-2" minumum.  You'll still want to lower the bumpstops to keep the tires out of the fenders.

[shotgun]

I think a SOA YJ will compete with a TJ. May not be  as smooth as a RE long arm, but very competent.  33's look a bit donutish, but fit very well. 35's are  a good mid point looks right and stuffs good.  If you want 37's I'd go with 2 inch springs to get the same performance as the 35's.

I saw some fiction above, but he makes a good point a good driver can take just about any rig anywhere within it's capabilities. Other drivers will throw money at the situation until the rig makes up for fewer skills. Picking a good line will make everything look easy.  

Now this is a true story of driver skills. before my YJ was SOA, I went to a Texas Park with a buddy. He had a 4.5 inch RE double flex, locked front and rear, winch, 6cyl, 35" MT's, 747 lights and wiring. I was driving my YJ with a 180,000 miles 4 banger, long add-a-leaves, open all the way around with 33" at's.  I followed him everywhere he wanted to go. I was winched once, weighted in the corners a couple of times. we stayed pretty much on trails rated 3-4.  Afterwards, he gave up props to the YJ.  I had less than $5k in the YJ including purchase price. He had added at least that in upgrades to his TJ. We took nearly the same lines and I made it.

Now I feel that because I drove a unlifted, underlifted, underpowered jeep for so long, It made me a better driver. Because I tried and pushed the jeep to it limits, Mine expanded. Now I'm considered one of the best spotters in my group, because I see better lines. I can get the stock vehicles through locations that they  don't think is possible.

Please consider the options, and don't discount the effectiveness of YJ's leaf sprung suspension.  If you continue having trouble try locking the front before anything else.

[chardrc]

i have a 2inch bds lift and the stock 31's from our rubicon and it atlest made my yj look like a jeep.. cant say much more since i havent goten offroad yet... but i can say that i still have the trackbars in cuz my dad and grandpa wont litme take them out cuz they are afraid of em roling it when onroad and saying they will help eventhough i tell them all you guys have them taken out and see no difference....

ow ya speaking of learning in a stocker... i learned how to drive and offraod simotaniusly in my grandas old cj2a in the mud with the original 60horse 4banger with 2-3inch lift, lockers front and rear, and overdrive... and now i can drive a stick and can get through most anything in the woods.. but i havent realy had any 1st hand experience with rock cralling thow...

[BlackYJ]

Well, a 2.5" OEM will clear 32's but be tight for 33 with that much flex.  If you stick with 31's you won't need to regear.  For 2.5" you can keep the stock slip yoke.  2.5" and 31's is one of the big cut off points.

The only way to clear 32s with the OME is to extend the bumpstops.  I had 31s with my OME and I JUST cleared the top of my fender with TJ flares on, but it flexes AMAZINGLY.  Definitely worth the money

[YJmechanic]

if you want a cheap way to get some lift for the time being just use a 1.25" shackle lift and a 1" body lift.  About $220+install  and get some 31" mt online for about $200 from somebody that is selling there's for bigger and then you should be enough to get through a descent trails.  and run tj flairs for the extra 1-2" flex for about $60 at a junk yard.  The good thing is you can reuse all of these things when you want to go to a bigger lift later.  That is pretty much how my first lift went and I'm still running some of the stuff.  and the tires you can sell again  for about the same amount.  I ran ok at trails with 31MT's as long as you pick good lines  especially locked.