Author Topic: Weird shock damage  (Read 3107 times)

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chrisfranklin

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Weird shock damage
« on: July 21, 2006, 04:03:47 PM »
Went on that trip with chris zeitler to Lockwood/Miller Jeep Trail about a month ago in the LA area.  Both rigs made it through ok.  But, I noticed some new sounds coming from my Jeep's rear end ever time I was hitting speed bumps

I figured a shock mount had sheared and, the problem was/is, in fact, coming from the rear shocks.  I get underneath last night just to check the mounts, track bars, joints, etc.  I notice that everything is still attached and apparently ok.  But, I look at both of the rear Bilstein shocks and they both have big dents in the side of there housings (sides facing forward) about an inch up from the ends of the shocks closest to the ground.  The dents are on both shocks and in the same place -- kind of odd because the shocks are mounted some 4-5 feet apart on a  Jeep

Now, I am thinking, ok, the shocks are damaged, the pistons in both are not going to actuate all the way...don't see oil leaking, though.   Going to need a new pair.  But, I am still kind of puzzled how I ended up damaging both shocks in precisely the same place -- must have driven over seperate obstacles and clipped one shock each time ? Shocks are mounted higher than the rear diff and I don't see any damage there?! :lol:

SMC4WD

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Weird shock damage
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2006, 04:48:43 PM »
So I browsed Bilsteins website and found this cut-away of their shock...  I, too, am running Bilsteins...   The monotube design is a single tubed body, unlike a dual tube design that offers less fluid (overheats faster) but protects more.



This tells me that if you've got dents in the body, big dents...  That may be binding that shocks performance.  But there is that floating piston...   It could be binding just that...

Either way, call Shane Casad at Bilstein.   See what he has to say about it.  1-858-386-5900

chrisfranklin

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Weird shock damage
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2006, 05:02:34 PM »
Sweeet info, SMC. Thanks, man. Will give that guy a call.

Figure that the free-floating dividing piston is getting caught on the dents in the "chambers" when shock compression occurrs. Now that I am thinking about it, that's likely what I'm feeling when I'm hitting bumps -- kind of an abbreviated compression of the rear suspension.  Still can't believe I dented both shocks in the same place though. FNA.
 :lol:

chrisfranklin

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Weird shock damage
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2006, 12:30:29 AM »
I have frigging leaf springs.  Do I even need rear shocks if they've failed?  Man, Bilstein is about as good as I can think of for shocks.  I hate it when I have to buy replacement gear that isn't an upgrade :lol:

chrisfranklin

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Weird shock damage
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2006, 06:29:22 PM »
When all is said and done, replacing these shocks is going to run me $140 + install.  

This kind of thing -- damage on replacement parts when on decent trails -- is starting to push me toward doing a modest suspension lift around the time I need new tires-- lift will cost money, but it'll save money in many cases (unless I am on like Sledgehammer Trail or something).  Course, new tires probably aren't going to be needed for a couple of years, so I'll just have to take the hits until them

I've been reading some of the jeep books and one "old pro" writer stated that he generally ran 31s and only, on one Jeep, ever ran 33's.  I was kind of surprised at the guys restraint  :lol:

I figure if I do a lift, I'll opt for 33s, cause I only will want to do it once.  Probably do the Rubicon Express 4.5 kit for around $600.    Probably stick with the Aussies front/rear due warranty and no tire size limits and solid performance/reviews thus far, get some black steel wheels, 33" Revos, 8.8 rear axle with Disc brakes, front Discos, and most of all for my 4Banger -- Regear!! Probably throw in one of those Warn 8000 winches for good measure.  Also probably throw in some Rockers & front/rear diff guards, A/C, and, if necessary at 200k miles, a new engine.  This will all (minus engine) run about $6,000 + time invested and fine-tuning.  But, its fun and worthwhile and I could probably blow big money repairing damage if my rig wasn't properly equipped for tough trails.  And, I love my old YJ :D

chrisfranklin

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Weird shock damage
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2006, 03:12:36 AM »
You guys know of a company that makes plates or armour which are designed to attach to and protect the rear shocks on a YJ?  

If I spring for new shocks, may give Edelbrock IAS shocks a go all around(Vic Edelbrock apparently decided to buy the patents for this "revolutionary" shock design about 10 years ago; reviews are good, some say shocks are superior to Bilstein in that they provide a variable rebound rate).  Definitely wanted to protect new shocks in the near term, since a good lift is down the road a few years.

SMC4WD

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Weird shock damage
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2006, 10:40:12 AM »
Ok...  Here's my two cents...

Don't 'downgrade' from Bilstein's...  Edelbrock's are very very good.  Their IAS valving is a patent taken from the motorcycle circuit.  If you're moving away from Bil's, Edelbrocks are top rated.

A suspension lift will help with some damages to the undercarriage, but don't kid yourself.  With more height, you'll try more aggressive trails.  With a winch, you might be more ballsy...  But all of us are doing this and more shocks are no where near as beat.  I hope that you hit a rare occurrence and don't expect to see something like that again.

ARB sells a shock guard, OME661...  I'll look at it tomorrow and see how it mounts on.  It was designed for the Toyota 60 or 80 series Landcruisers, but I don't think the shock knows what vehicle it's on...

I'll let you know.  And Chris...  One credit card and all this could be your's too!

Offline Jeffy

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Weird shock damage
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2006, 11:21:52 AM »
Do the shocks have a warrantee?  Worth a try...
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SMC4WD

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Weird shock damage
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2006, 12:44:25 PM »
Quote from: "Jeffy"
Do the shocks have a warrantee?  Worth a try...


As you know, shocks have a warranty against 'manufacturers defect and workmanship'...  Now if you can convince them that this was a manufacturing defect (like faulty valving)  you can have a chance.

Here's a note...  Seriously look at this shock.  Bilstein's are a pressure shock, so doing this won't be that easy but...  Pull the shock off and compress it all the way...  cycle it by hand a few times and seriously see if it's binding.  Shocks were designed to take some abuse and Bilsteins are one's to be abused the most.
Another note is...  after a suspension upgrade you'll need new shocks.  The ol' extended length/collasped length thing...  So be wise before you spend your money.

chrisfranklin

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Weird shock damage
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2006, 04:59:11 PM »
Quote
A suspension lift will help with some damages to the undercarriage, but don't kid yourself. With more height, you'll try more aggressive trails. With a winch, you might be more ballsy...  


Yeah, that's the Truth, SMC !!  SMC telling it like it is!!   :lol:

I'll check out the OME gear with ARB and see if I can find those toyota shock guards.

Frankly, a shock should be able to take a dent and still operate --  the fluid will just work around it.   The existance of a solid component in the resevoir -- the floating piston in the Bilsteins-- "might have" kind of f's up that conventional wisdom.  Like to get you guys some photos of my rear shocks in current condition -- will borrow a digital camera.

SMC, have been searching on that ARB part OME661 and not coming up with much -- you know any retailers that carry it now? Know its Old Man Emu, but none of the online retailers, search engines seem to be showing it for sale.

SMC4WD

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Weird shock damage
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2006, 07:52:42 PM »
Call 888.4ARBUSA

Ask for a guy named Scott...  He might be able to 'hook you up'. ;)

SMC4WD

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Weird shock damage
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2006, 12:50:59 PM »
Ok...  I've done some research and this is what I've found out.  Starting numerically:

OME660 looks like this-


OME661 looks like this-


OME662 looks like this-


Back page of the instructions-


I guess the OME662's wrap around the lower control arm on the LC80/100 series wagons...  

These were designed to protect the shocks from being pelted by small stones of rural, desolate roads.  I can't tell you how well they'll hold up against rock damages.

As far as pricing is concerned...  I'm guessing they'll be $23.00 to $50.00 plus freight.  

Did this help?  Shed knowledge for others? Including myself!

chrisfranklin

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Weird shock damage
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2006, 10:33:53 PM »
Yeah, the OME gear looks like it will solve the problem.  Thanks a ton, SMC.  I gotta call your Bilstein and OME people and sort this out and find a supplier.   How'd you find those pictures of the OME shock guard parts -- did a rep send you photos or something, man? I couldn't find anything on those for Landcruisers anywhere   :lol:

SMC4WD

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Weird shock damage
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2006, 10:32:26 AM »
How or where I got this pics is privy information...  One of those things where "If I told you, I'd have to kill you afterwards"...

Call Bilstein and take a few pics of the damages...  See if Shane is around and tell him Scott recommended him...  But show him pics via his email (I'll let him give you that addy).  If he says they're warrantable or maybe offering you a discount on another set.  Take some time with him (or anyone else there) and tell him that you're interested in Edelbrock.  Let them tell you why their shocks are soo good.  I insist that you tell them that you do not want to downgrade, but finances and damages could force you to have to do that (sob story)...

The call ARB (if you got a couple bucks still left in your pocket).  Ask for Scott there...  Spend some time chatting with him too...  Call between 8-5pm M-F PST.  Tell him SMC from these boards sent ya.