Topic: Nightly Jeep Squeel Bad Power Steering Pump? Air in Lines?

[SMC4WD]

I must admit...   It's alot easier that rotating your Jeep 90 degrees and then flipping it upside down.   But I'll bet you'll achieve the same results.  

I am interested to know if it solves your problem.  It'll be helpful to alot of people if it worked.

[Jeffy]

It will whistle more with an open air filter.  You can really hear the air being sucked in since there is no air box to insulate the noise.  I guess either mine's in teh right position or it never bothers me.  Only the TBS's with the cits in them whistle as the air tries to bypass the cuts and runs over them.

[chrisfranklin]

I did it.  funny thing was that when I flipped it and did the 90 degree thing, I saw that the new "top-side" of it was engraved with writing , "4.0 top".  

So, I think I may have inadvertently had the thing upside down to begin with   Seems to run better now, too. No whistle (course, that seemed to happen at night, colder temp and idle speed).  Will run Jeep tonight and see if no whistle still

[Jeffy]

I did it.  funny thing was that when I flipped it and did the 90 degree thing, I saw that the new "top-side" of it was engraved with writing , "4.0 top".  

So, I think I may have inadvertently had the thing upside down to begin with   Seems to run better now, too. No whistle (course, that seemed to happen at night, colder temp and idle speed).  Will run Jeep tonight and see if no whistle still

Yes, it pays to pay attention to what the Mfg advised.  

[chrisfranklin]

Despite flipping the poweraid TB spacer that I had, I was still getting a serious whistle/squeel noise.

So, I ended up selling the Poweraid Spacer at auction for $30 + shipping and buying one of the no-swirly generic Spacers that are sold for about $22 + shipping for buy-it-now.  Installed the new, no-swirly spacer and that fixed the problem, finally.  Man, that noise was driving me frigging nuts!!

I don't know if any of you guys using Poweraid TB spacers have had similar problems or maybe only if you are running an open element K&N style filter.  But, be warned about the "Squeel/whistle" Poweraid TB spacer potential problem if you are going CAI or open-element air filter!! :evil:

[chrisfranklin]

finally fixed the problem

Yeah, for a little while.  But, then the noise came back -- a jetliner on take-off whistle that is super annoying.

I went out double-checked to make sure it wasnt a bearing going in the alternator, power steering, water pump.  But, I kept coming back to the Throttle Body as the source Well, wasn't the spacer; gaskets are all new, everything tightened down, no leak in tubing, hoses, vacuum leaks etc.  

So i go and do a search on Throttle Body noise.  I run in to a site on Mustang 5.0L TBs that are aftermarket jobs by BBK  and running 70mm.  You had all these posts with these guys, there, saying they were hearing the same type of noise from their engines that I am getting.  These guys contacted the manufacturer, BBK, who recommended grinding out the IAC with a Dremel tool  -- apparently the rough surface and sharp corner can cause serious noise at idle and just off idle.  I am going to pull my TB and give this a go at the soonest available time with my Dremel tool.    These guys on the mustang site claimed that the grind job on the IAC did the trick -- I am a little skeptical.  

Here's the Mustang site commentary http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49292

Anyway, if this is the cause of the noise I am getting, then watch your step if you are picking up a 62mm TB for your 4 banger -- there may be a little bit of extra work involved to get the thing to operate like the OEM piece.

[Jesse-James]

I have a 62mm TB and spacer and no noise. When I changed it over the IAC was smooth and clean, so they may be on to something.

[chrisfranklin]

Had posted on this 4 banger noise I was getting here

http://www.4bangerjp.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1023&highlight=squeel

And, the noise problem in general had been ongoing for the last 7+ monthes.  First mentioned it here, but I was at first knee-jerking thinking it was bad accessories running off the engine or a loose belt and hadn't really cracked in to the problem yet.  

http://www.4bangerjp.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1024&highlight=squeel

Finally had some time last month and got to work on it.  Guys at 4xDoctors, Burbank, Ca. saw that the engine mounts were shredded, brake master cylinder was leaking and fan clutch was loose.  All that was changed out.  (side note: They didn't suggest there was any piston obstruction in my dented rear bilstein shocks, which I thought was at first the case; and any suspension problems were due to bad motor mounts).  The Doctors also noticed that the most rearwards bolt on the exhaust manifold had sheared off and they asked me if I wanted to get it fixed. I declined due to time.  They couldn't detect the squeel I had mentioned.  Since they were getting ready to shoot an engine swap show, I decided to pull out my Jeep and find a shop a little less busy.

Got the Jeep back on the road, but the squeal noise from the engine came on strong.  Had done online research a dozen times or so over monthes and nothing really pointed to an answer (thought I had originally detected the noise coming from the TB spacer or the 4.0TB -- turns out I was in the right ballpark, at least)

Was getting a little fed up at this point with the noise.  Purchased a Sears engine  stethacope and hunted around for the source of the noise under the hood myself. Didn't hear anything sounding like this squeal noise. Seemed that the only place on the engine that I couldn't get too with the stethascope, and with the engine, running was the water pump -- located behind the fan.  So, given process of elimination and recent work in the area (fan clutch change), I rolled the dice and ordered a new water pump, Flow Kool, and had it installed.  

Mechanic at a different shop installed the water pump.  Then noticed this shrieking noise I had been talking about when he restarted the engine.  Old Mechanic comes out to me and says, "hear that?...Man, that's annoying!" He runs around, calls some other guys at the shop over, take a look at it, don't know what the problem is, where it's coming from. They spend an hour looking at it, put it on the lift, back down.   Finally one of them takes his arm and leans well over in to the engine bay and on to the intake manifold with his body weight.  The noise changes pitch. A gasket leak, intake apparently Gotta admit, I wouldn't have thought to put weight on the intake manifold.  Leak must have been on the underside of the intake manifold, because I had gone over what I could get to with the engine stethascope.

Anyway, (one piece(?) intake/exhaust) gasket was changed out, the bolt on exhaust manifold was replaced- sheared bolt was drilled out and hole was rethreaded.  If anything, I was expecting a leak in the gasket around the exhaust manifold, given the bolt shear, but not the intake manifold.  But, sh#t happens and gaskets wear out where you aren't expecting it or can detect it.

You might be saying, "ok Franklin, what solved the problem was getting a team of mechanics who had the time to really test things out until they figured out the source of the noise."  I agree.  But labor is expensive and I have seen big money blown on (intentonally?) misdiagnosed, trial-and-error auto shop repairs which didn't solve problems in other vehicles.  Was looking to work around that by staying in the loop.  May have saved some money, but a lot of time went out the window doing so.    Course, did get to know my Jeep a little better, which is worth something.

[Jeffy]

Well, I see that you didn't run away...

Nice to see a follow up.    With an intake leak you'll usually see a spike in the idle since it's getting more air then it should as the throttle valce is closed and the only air getting into the engine is from the AIS motor that bypasses the throttle valve.  Must have been a really small hole to cause a whistle but no increase in idle.  Most likely it was a defect in the gasket or perhaps the gasket was pinched or missaligned when it was initally installed.  It's a bit of a fluke in that it's not something that happens very often.  It also sounds like the exhaust manifold wasn't leaking since that would make a puffing or tapping sound like valve tap.  At least it's fixed and shouldn't become a problem again.

Oh, one way to diagnose a intake or exahust gasket leak is to use soapy water in a squirt bottle and look for foamy areas or a change in noise.  Others use Butane gas on the suspect area.  If the idle shoots up it will help localize the problem area.

[Tall Boy]

There is a stethoscope you can pick up at Kragen for under ten dollars to pin point the problem. Start the motor, put the stethoscope on, make sure you do not get sucked into the fan or belt  and touch parts of the motor with it until you pinpoint the noise with it. My p/s pump has made a growl noise above 3,000 rpm when hot for over 70,000 miles,or 4 years.

[Jeffy]

There is a stethoscope you can pick up at Kragen for under ten dollars to pin point the problem. Start the motor, put the stethoscope on, make sure you do not get sucked into the fan or belt  and touch parts of the motor with it until you pinpoint the noise with it. My p/s pump has made a growl noise above 3,000 rpm when hot for over 70,000 miles,or 4 years.

He bought one.  Although would you be able to hear a high pitch whistle with one?  I've never tried. :nothing:

[Tall Boy]

Try it !!!

[Jeffy]

Try it !!!

Well, I don't own one.  I use the old school, long screw driver or dowel trick. Never tried it with them either.  I don't have a leak either which is why I was asking.

[Tall Boy]

I got tired of reading all the posts and made a suggestion instead.
   Those two piece gakets are something. I spent tiiiiiiiime on my TJ putting in a banks torque tube header.  Got the run around from a dodge dealer , could not torque 1 or 2 intake bolts up front by the p/s pump but by feel, and all in all it runs fine so far.

[Tall Boy]

Try it !!!

Well, I don't own one.  I use the old school, long screw driver or dowel trick. Never tried it with them either.  I don't have a leak either which is why I was asking.

 :roll: