Topic: Fire Extinguishers

[Jeffy]

So what do you run?  Or do you even have one?

I need to replace mine so I'm thinking two small AFFF aerosol type near the doors and a 10lbs BC in the back.  The new Halon's are nice but a bit expensive for a usable size for a car fire.  Haven't seen many AFFF in a 5-10lbs size.

[sharpxmen]

what about co2 as opposed to halon?

[Jeffy]

what about co2 as opposed to halon?

Co2 would work but it's still costs 150% more for half the size then a dry-chem.

[chrisfranklin]

Some chrome deal on a bracket on the roll bar that I obscure with the floor carpet. Think I did my homework buying it though.  Almost 2 years old so probably should check it.

[sharpxmen]

Co2 would work but it's still costs 150% more for half the size then a dry-chem.

I meant cost compared to the halon one? and what's the advantage of the halon filled?

[neale_rs]

I got a non-rechargeable dry-chem from Home Depot about 4 years ago.  It has a gauge on it and seems to be holding pressure just fine.  Since then I have read that the dry chem will leave a nasty coat the engine and electronics that can cause more damage than the fire itself, assuming you put it out quickly.  So what is the best type of extinguisher to use?

[sharpxmen]

gas filled ones are best since there's no residue left, downside is that you need bigger size since there's nothing left on the area, so you need a constant flow to keep the fire from reigniting. i believe CO2 is the most common one.

[neale_rs]

Thanks.  A quick look on the internet revealed that CO2, Holotron I, Halon 1211, and FE-36 is the stuff to use for computers.  It does seem that CO2 is the cheapest, and like you mentioned, they are big.

I currently have this one:  http://www.amazon.com/Kidde-FA110-Purpose-Extinguisher-1A10BC/dp/B00002ND64

[Jeffy]

I would say each has it's own advantages and disadvantages.

On an inclosed fire you wouldn't want to be using a Haltron or Co2 as they are not breathable.

Looking at cost, size and weight, I think a two-stage approach is probably best.  Small extinguishers for the initial fire.  If it gets large enough to use a big extinguisher, you probably aren't going to care about the mess it makes.  Also, as long as you clean up dry-chem it's not a problem anyway.

At concentrations greater than 17 percent, such as those encountered during carbon dioxide fire suppressant use, loss of controlled and purposeful activity, unconsciousness, convulsions, coma, and death occur within 1 minute of initial inhalation of carbon dioxide (OSHA 1989, CCOHS 1990, Dalgaard et al. 1972, CATAMA 1953, Lambertsen 1971). At exposures between 10 and 15 percent, carbon dioxide has been shown to cause unconsciousness, drowsiness, severe muscle twitching, and dizziness within several minutes (Wong 1992, CATAMA 1953, Sechzer et al. 1960). Within a few minutes to an hour after exposure to concentrations between 7 and 10 percent, unconsciousness, dizziness, headache, visual and hearing dysfunction, mental depression, shortness of breath, and sweating have been observed (Schulte 1964, CATAMA 1953, Dripps and Comroe 1947, Wong 1992, Sechzer et al. 1960, OSHA 1989). Exposures to 4 to 7 percent carbon dioxide can result in headache; hearing and visual disturbances; increased blood pressure; dyspnea, or difficulty breathing; mental depression; and tremors (Schulte 1964; Consolazio et al. 1947; White et al. 1952; Wong 1992; Kety and Schmidt 1948; Gellhorn 1936; Gellhorn and Spiesman 1934, 1935; Schulte 1964). Part I of Appendix B discusses human health effects of high-concentration exposure to carbon dioxide in greater detail. - http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/fire/co2/co2report.html

The advantages of Halon 1211 (most common I think) is that it leaves the extinguisher as 85% liquid and 15% gas.  It is also used in areas where there will likely be people as Halon is relatively safe to breath.  The problem is the production of Halon ceased on January 1, 1994, under the Clean Air Act.  Halon is a CFC. Haltron on the other had is discharged as a liquid.  It is environmentally safe.  I've read that Haltron is about 1/2 as good as Halon 1301.  Haltron is a replacement for 1211, IIRC.  The best is 1301 which is a gas.

[neale_rs]

I'll stick with the dry-chem for now.  Those others are just too expensive and in any case I've helped put out two engine fires (many years ago) with just dirt thrown on them and they got put out before much damage was done.

[Jeffy]

I'll stick with the dry-chem for now.  Those others are just too expensive and in any case I've helped put out two engine fires (many years ago) with just dirt thrown on them and they got put out before much damage was done.

I think many of the expo guy's are running two small AFFF's and one big dry-chem.  The reason being, if it's a small electrical fire under the dash the small extinguishers are probably going to be good enough.  If it's big enough to use the big guns then you're just trying to salvage the vehicle and hope it doesn't burn to the ground.  Auto fires can accelerate very quickly.  If you can get it when it's small, you're OK.  When they start to get big, you need a lot of retardant.  It sucks to get it close to extinguishing then run out and have it flair up again.

You can get a Kiddie 5lbs CD (CO2) for $150 or a 10lbs Dry-chem for $50.  I like the Pro models since they use a metal handle and valve.  They can also be recharged.

[jfrabat]

I just have a small dry chem (dont remember if it is 1lb or 2.5lbs) on the roll bar...  Have not needed it yet, and hope I dont.  It is all metal, refilable, and the pressure gauge reads just fine.  I guess it's enough for a small fire, but anything big, and I am screwed!

[Jeffy]

I just have a small dry chem (dont remember if it is 1lb or 2.5lbs) on the roll bar...  Have not needed it yet, and hope I dont.  It is all metal, refilable, and the pressure gauge reads just fine.  I guess it's enough for a small fire, but anything big, and I am screwed!

That would be my biggest worry.  I've seen how fast car fires can move.

[sharpxmen]

At concentrations greater than 17 percent, such as those encountered during carbon dioxide fire suppressant use, loss of controlled and purposeful activity, unconsciousness, convulsions, coma, and death occur within 1 minute of initial inhalation of carbon dioxide (OSHA 1989, CCOHS 1990, Dalgaard et al. 1972, CATAMA 1953, Lambertsen 1971). At exposures between 10 and 15 percent, carbon dioxide has been shown to cause unconsciousness, drowsiness, severe muscle twitching, and dizziness within several minutes (Wong 1992, CATAMA 1953, Sechzer et al. 1960). Within a few minutes to an hour after exposure to concentrations between 7 and 10 percent, unconsciousness, dizziness, headache, visual and hearing dysfunction, mental depression, shortness of breath, and sweating have been observed (Schulte 1964, CATAMA 1953, Dripps and Comroe 1947, Wong 1992, Sechzer et al. 1960, OSHA 1989). Exposures to 4 to 7 percent carbon dioxide can result in headache; hearing and visual disturbances; increased blood pressure; dyspnea, or difficulty breathing; mental depression; and tremors (Schulte 1964; Consolazio et al. 1947; White et al. 1952; Wong 1992; Kety and Schmidt 1948; Gellhorn 1936; Gellhorn and Spiesman 1934, 1935; Schulte 1964). Part I of Appendix B discusses human health effects of high-concentration exposure to carbon dioxide in greater detail. - http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/fire/co2/co2report.html

these are for indoors use, outdoors co2 is as safe as it gets (unless you discharge it in your face you're fine).

[Jeffy]

these are for indoors use, outdoors co2 is as safe as it gets (unless you discharge it in your face you're fine).

Never had an electrical fire under your dash while driving?