Topic: Brainstorming and setting the stage for the a doubler box

[neale_rs]

A 4:1 with 4.88 axle gears and the NV3550 reverse ratio of 3.57 would give you a reverse ratio of 69.7:1.  So the question is, how well would this low a ratio work if having to rock out or back out of mud or sand?   Forward, you can use higher tranny gears but in reverse you are stuck with this in low range. This is one of the best reasons to go with the doubler in a general purpose Jeep. 

[Jeffy]

You know, if you have the 241OR, can you see if a 231 input shaft will work on it?  After thinking about the 231 and 241 using the same planetary, it came to me that you could use a 241 on the AX-5.  I'm curious to see the OR's planetary and if it's similar enough to the 200's to use the same input shaft.

[sharpxmen]

You know, if you have the 241OR, can you see if a 231 input shaft will work on it?  After thinking about the 231 and 241 using the same planetary, it came to me that you could use a 241 on the AX-5.  I'm curious to see the OR's planetary and if it's similar enough to the 200's to use the same input shaft.

i doubt it, they are different, the 241 input shaft has a thicker bearing (so the snap ring groove is at a different location), the other think is the pilot bearing, it is way bigger in the 241 (although that can be sleeved which is what i am doing. Also from what i recall the clutch sleeve is bigger on the 241OR and but the splines on the output shaft are the same. I am not sure of the planetary tooth cut, but even if they are same diameter and step the rest of it is so different that is more than just a simple swap, you'd be better off swapping the transmission rather than messing with the input shaft. As an alternative you could be looking at a klune or a 231 doubler mated to the 241OR (that is probably the best option).

[Jeffy]

i doubt it, they are different, the 241 input shaft has a thicker bearing (so the snap ring groove is at a different location), the other think is the pilot bearing, it is way bigger in the 241 (although that can be sleeved which is what i am doing. Also from what i recall the clutch sleeve is bigger on the 241OR and but the splines on the output shaft are the same. I am not sure of the planetary tooth cut, but even if they are same diameter and step the rest of it is so different that is more than just a simple swap, you'd be better off swapping the transmission rather than messing with the input shaft. As an alternative you could be looking at a klune or a 231 doubler mated to the 241OR (that is probably the best option).

I've already chosen which road I'll be going down.  Was just curious though.

[sharpxmen]

ok, i have an issue - i can't seem to find what bearing is used on these Rubicon NP241, i found a bearing that had the same dimensions listed for NP241 (p/n BD50-8), i ordered it and when i received it everything is exactly the same except for the snap ring location, the one from the Rubi has the snap ring right in the center of the outer race, the one i ordered has it close to one of the sides just like the narrow one in the NP231

I googled and searched everywhere and can't seem to find a part number or someone selling parts for this Rubi t-case, if any of you can help that would be greatly appreciated

[sharpxmen]

i hope i figured it out
what i got was bearing p/n BD50-8
what i need apparently is BD50-8-A-T86NRX-01

or the Chrysler p/n 5072458AA

both are $40.99

($107 at the stealership  )

[sharpxmen]

this is the plan












the multiple holes on the front plate would give following degree clocking options
3, 6, 9, 15, 21, 24, 30

I would have liked to also have 12 and 18 deg option but i could only do it with 8 bolts, 12 bolts won't allow for the extra holes and since the NV241OR from which i scavanged the planetary gear and input shaft had 12 bolts on the front cap i decided to go the same route.

the front plate and the input snout will be aluminum, everything else steel, the diameter of the body is 8-5/8'' (closest seamless pipe i could find), distance between the mounting faces (transmission and t-case sides) 6'' by my early calculations but i won't know the exact numbers until i take the D300 out and design the new input snout - should be within +/- 1/4''

[neale_rs]

It looks good.  I think the stock clocking for the NP231 is 13 degrees.  From 9 to 15 you have a 6 degree jump.  The Atlas 4 speed jumps from 7 to 14 and in that range I think the front output height changed about 1.5".  You might want to change the degrees you make available to make sure it fits exactly the way you need (you may have done that already), since 1.5" can make a difference in terms of fit.

[sharpxmen]

It looks good.  I think the stock clocking for the NP231 is 13 degrees.  From 9 to 15 you have a 6 degree jump.  The Atlas 4 speed jumps from 7 to 14 and in that range I think the front output height changed about 1.5".  You might want to change the degrees you make available to make sure it fits exactly the way you need (you may have done that already), since 1.5" can make a difference in terms of fit.

i would like to get the 15 deg but it's a matter of hitting the floor or the reinforcing channel under the tub, that's pretty much why i focused on 3, 6, and 9 degrees so i can have baby steps available to do the mockup. Difference between 13 and 15 or 7 and 9 is quite negligible so that's not a worry but indeed the 12 deg would have been nice to have. I think mine is clocked about 20 deg at this point so if i ever decide to cut the floor i could get it horizontal. I need to measure the current clocking and how much room i have to move up at that point i can decide the final location of the holes, i would still lose one of the options, i might just try to skip the 3 and 15 and get the 12 and 18 instead, the number of holes won't change, just the initial position of the extra ones so they line up to the new deg options.

how much is yours clocked down btw?

[neale_rs]

It ended up at 14 degrees.  The new skid/crossmember is about 3/4" higher than stock at the mounting holes.  Taking this into account, a rib under the floor had to be cut into to make it fit, keeping in mind that this is with no body lift.

I think that with a body lift, 7 degrees would have been possible, and the skid could be almost flat, maybe only 1" drop.

I think the belly-up kits use a different tranny mount, something like a plate with rubber disks out to the sides.  This helps to get it almost flat with only 1" body lift.

[sharpxmen]

It ended up at 14 degrees.  The new skid/crossmember is about 3/4" higher than stock at the mounting holes.  Taking this into account, a rib under the floor had to be cut into to make it fit, keeping in mind that this is with no body lift.

I think that with a body lift, 7 degrees would have been possible, and the skid could be almost flat, maybe only 1" drop.

I think the belly-up kits use a different tranny mount, something like a plate with rubber disks out to the sides.  This helps to get it almost flat with only 1" body lift.

there is a step-up mounting plate that can be used for the transmission mount with AX15, NV3550 or NSG370 (about 1'' up from the current mounting plane), i think YJ 4.0L came with those, i have one i plan to use and tie in at the end of the doubler where it mate with the t-case (or close to that end) so i will use 1 mount in the center between the transmission and t-case right under the doubler - only problem is that i don't know if the larger diameter doubler will allow it, need to do some measuring - if not i'll just make a flat one following the same idea, would make the assembly stronger and i won't need a rear t-case mount.

based on what you said that it could be isntalled at about 7 deg (i have a 1'' b/l) i should be fine with a 15 deg clocking but unless i make a 3D model of the floor i won't know for sure until everything is bolted together, i'll try and get it close though. once i get under the Jeep i'll know more - been raining here like crazy so I stayed indoors.

[neale_rs]

15 degrees should be really easy, and 9 will probably be doable with minor under floor mods.

[sharpxmen]

15 degrees should be really easy, and 9 will probably be doable with minor under floor mods.

with a lot more holes and 16 bolts i can do every 3 degrees, not sure if it's worth it though. I'll have to give it some more thought.

[Jeffy]

with a lot more holes and 16 bolts i can do every 3 degrees, not sure if it's worth it though. I'll have to give it some more thought.

I don't think it's worth it unless you're going to produce these for multiple applications.

[sharpxmen]

I don't think it's worth it unless you're going to produce these for multiple applications.

yeah, it is not - i am even contemplating if i should get more than 2 positions if not just 1, only concern is if i run into any issues to not be able to adjust it. I'll see how i feel, there's lots of holes so that could be the deal breaker - might just measure 15 times and get the final clocking and have it set. I could just do 2 positions also like 6 to 10 deg apart so that would only mean another 12 holes rather than an extra 84 (and they would all be done by hand and not on a CNC  )