Author Topic: Synthetic winch rope  (Read 6308 times)

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Offline chrisfranklin

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Synthetic winch rope
« on: May 17, 2012, 02:11:53 PM »
Have been looking at the what's on offer as far as synthetic rope is concerned.  Was probably going to just get the Spydura 3/8" x100ft rope Warn makes.  Amazon sells it for $231 + shipping (Amazon had one left this morning -- guess it got bought) http://www.amazon.com/WARN-87915-Spydura-Synthetic-Winch/dp/B007KCNBB6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337284090&sr=8-1.  

But one thing is Warn also offers a 3/8" x 100' rope that runs about $500-600  http://www.amazon.com/WARN-76300-Synthetic-Winch-Rope/dp/B001U7M4HE/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1337284219&sr=1-3.  Don't see it listed at their site, so guessing its an older model.  

Guess I'll contact Warn and ask what the difference is between their above two ropes.  

Be decent if Warn would advertise the breaking strength on the Spydura rope.  But since they use it with their "S" models, including the VR 10,000 "S", guess the 3/8" Spydura Rope is good for 10,000lbs at least.  

Looking at Amsteel Blue/Viking/Master Pull ropes, you get the picture that they are all Dyneema. with advertised breaking strength "X" depending on rope diameter.  Before blowing $250-$260 on the Warn Spydura, wanted to find out if its on par strength-wise with the aforementioned 3 makes (although even if it's only 80% as strong, that's probably more than adequate for my use).

Have searched N-S-E-W but haven't come across anything.  What brand do you guys recommend if you're using synthetic rope?


« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 02:13:29 PM by chrisfranklin »
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Offline sharpxmen

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Re: Synthetic winch rope
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2012, 02:49:44 PM »
just out of curiosity, why not going with the usual steel cable? I know weight is one issue but is it worth the cost difference? on top of that i read they fail more often than steel cable so that would be another matter of consideration (see this thread on pirate for some complaints, some probably by improper use, not saying it's the standard of use for synthetic rope but seems to be less forgiving and more prone to braking when it rubs against rocks or hard objects like bumper and such http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=926629)
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Offline chrisfranklin

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Re: Synthetic winch rope
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2012, 03:52:53 PM »
This write up caught my attention a few weeks ago http://www.stu-offroad.com/recovery/winchline/winchline-6.htm

The synthetic has some advantages but you let it contact rocks etc. while pulling and it looks like you can snap it pretty easily.  Most of the synthetic offerings out there come with abrasion sleaves that you can move around on the rope to protect against contact. 
It's your responsibility to make sure the rope isn't hitting anything.

The other deal is heat. Most of the synthetic ropes look like they come with the first dozen feet or so wrapped in some kind of heat resistant coating -- protect against winch motor heat. 

Then there's UV radiation from sun, which guess can degrade synthetic rope strength.  It seems like a lot of the synthetic rope makes have some kind of coating to protect somewhat against that.  So use a cover I guess. 

Really it looks like you don't let synthetic rope get too hot (no exhaust, hot surface contact),  don't let synthetic rope contact rocks without some kind of sleave(s) on, don't let synthetic rope sunbathe on an Australian beach...  :lol:

There's more vigilance involved with using the synthetic and keeping it intact. If you can keep an eye on it, synthetic seems like it can give you some worthwhile benefits over cable
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Offline neale_rs

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Re: Synthetic winch rope
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2012, 04:06:43 PM »
When wheeling with diverse groups, it is pretty hard to keep track of the rope or cable at all times.  You would need a very trustworthy person to help you with each recovery.  Or if there is nobody around you trust that much, maybe let the one you trust the most at the time get in the driver's seat while you personally supervise the use of the winch rope.  In my wheeling group, I don't think a synthetic winch rope would last long, just too much misuse of equipment going on.

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Offline aw12345

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Re: Synthetic winch rope
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2012, 06:12:11 PM »
I have seen a bud break a synthetic rope and it just falls to the ground when it snaps. That is about the only real advantage it has, the stuff loves to bind up much worse than steel cable on the winch drum. So far steel cable has done me just fine.
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Offline chrisfranklin

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Re: Synthetic winch rope
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2012, 07:10:50 PM »
I have seen a bud break a synthetic rope and it just falls to the ground when it snaps. That is about the only real advantage it has, the stuff loves to bind up much worse than steel cable on the winch drum. So far steel cable has done me just fine.

Art, if it binds up during a pull, couldn't you unspool it and rewind before continuing?  Know it slows things down and is a PIA.

Figured the chance of getting a kink would be pretty well non-existent with synthetic.     

Got no problem with steel cable.  The weight savings with synthetic over steel is only about 25lbs.  Right now, don't have steel or synthetic so going to have to do something. 

Would say synthetic is probably 'friendlier' to work with, doesn't need a blanket to contain a snap (what you were saying), allegedly stronger than similar diameter steel cable.  I'm interested in giving the synthetic a go, but I might buy a 100'-125' steel cable to have on hand also.   
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Offline stan98tj

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Re: Synthetic winch rope
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2012, 09:13:14 PM »
Synthetic line has lots of advantages over steel cable. In the maritime industry, most ships have done away with cable in favor of synthetic line. The synthetic stuff doesn't store kinetic energy, so it's safer when it parts- no snap back. Steel cable can kill you if it parts. Synthetic line isn't as fragile as what you guys seem to think. We have lines on this ship that we've left out in the sun and have been exposed to high temps, freezing temps and salt water (obviously) and they still work fine...would be best if we stowed them properly but they don't seem too concerned with that aboard this ship-that's another story. A good quality synth line doesn't need much in the way of care, a winch cover when not in use would be good, and use of chafing gear (abrasion sleeves). I would go for a high quality synthetic line. Also, synth line is more forgiving in the drum when it's bird-nested (which is when it snags and fouls up on the drum while winching in). When wire fouls, it bends and and flattens and the strands become weak and can become permanently kinked to an extent. This makes the cable weaker. This is why it's important to carefully winch in wire cable. The synth line is more forgiving when it comes to that, since it has elasticity and will return to normal shape when it's pinched (unlike the steel cable).
So in my opinion, high quality synth line is a good option.
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Offline sharpxmen

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Re: Synthetic winch rope
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2012, 12:47:01 AM »
there's got to be a reason you don't see cranes with synthetic rope, first one that comes up will make me buy one for my winch, until then steel cable seems a safer bet imo
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Offline stan98tj

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Re: Synthetic winch rope
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2012, 04:47:29 AM »
there's got to be a reason you don't see cranes with synthetic rope, first one that comes up will make me buy one for my winch, until then steel cable seems a safer bet imo
if they use synthetic line half the diameter of usual steel cable to keep ships against the docks regardless of winds gusts pushing them off, what makes you think you can't rely on it to pull your YJ up an incline? Synthetic is better and safer. Steel cable isn't bad either, i run it on mine...but synthetic line is safer.

oh and as for your cranes not using steel cable: Here is an article in Cranes Today Magazine (I couldn't believe they actually had a magazine for the avid crane-man) speaking about the benefits of switching from steel cable to synth line in cranes :)
http://www.cranestodaymagazine.com/story.asp?storycode=2047050
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Offline sharpxmen

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Re: Synthetic winch rope
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2012, 08:25:20 AM »
oh and as for your cranes not using steel cable: Here is an article in Cranes Today Magazine (I couldn't believe they actually had a magazine for the avid crane-man) speaking about the benefits of switching from steel cable to synth line in cranes :)
http://www.cranestodaymagazine.com/story.asp?storycode=2047050
thanks for the link - that's actually supporting my statement if you read past the first paragraph

it's about the benefits of replacing the steel cable with wire rope in the future, which was my point, they're not there yet
here's an example:
Quote
Polyamides, such as Nylon, Perlon, and Nylsuisse, offers high tensile strength, but are prone to elongation, offer low resistance against ultraviolet radiation and acids, and swell in water. Länge says these products are used for lifting straps, but are not suitable for replacing ropes in hoisting gear. Polyester, sold as Diolen, Trevira or Dacron, offers low elongation and reasonable tensile strength, but is not strong enough for wire ropes. Polypropylene, including brands such as Leolene and Softlene, is lightweight but has low resistance against abrasion. [...]Länge says that various rope makers are currently working on wire rope designs that would be suitable for reeving onto drums in multiple layers. This research concentrates on using aramids in combination with other materials.

if you keep reading past that they're talking about solutions to store the rope on drums in multiple layers by removing the load from the drum, interesting article

to me looks like under static load a wire rope is as good or maybe better than steel in certain circumstances, for winching the fact is they fail more often and don't last as long as the usual steel cable. Same article talks about a hybrid cable with synthetic core and steel outer layers for saving weight
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 08:46:47 AM by sharpxmen »
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Offline Bounty Hunter

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Re: Synthetic winch rope
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2012, 09:13:19 AM »
I'd argue that synthetic lasts longer. Wire is a pain to use and very easily flat-spots, necessitating replacement. This doesn't happen with synthetic rope. My rope has outlasted every steel cable I've had, and I use my winch frequently.

I've broken steel cables, don't think I'll own another.

Offline Jeffy

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Re: Synthetic winch rope
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2012, 11:00:42 AM »
I'd argue that synthetic lasts longer. Wire is a pain to use and very easily flat-spots, necessitating replacement. This doesn't happen with synthetic rope. My rope has outlasted every steel cable I've had, and I use my winch frequently.

I've broken steel cables, don't think I'll own another.
I think wire tends to take a lot more abuse.  Most people don't take care of their winches then in a moments notice call upon their winch to perform like it did out of the box.  Unless the Jeep is a toy, that winch is going to go everywhere the Jeep does.  Meaning it's probably going to be sitting out in the weather and sun.

The simple solution would be to remove the rope but that's a hassle in and of it self.  Would I turn down a rope?  Nope.  But then I wouldn't turn down a cable either.  Through dragging 80-100' of cable out is a real PITA.
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Offline stan98tj

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Re: Synthetic winch rope
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2012, 07:40:10 PM »
thanks for the link - that's actually supporting my statement if you read past the first paragraph

Sharp, we tie ships up with synthetic line. I was against the dock in Korea for 3 weeks under constant 15-30kt winds. Didn't part a single line and most of the synthetic lines had seen better days. I'm not telling you to junk your wire cable. Steel cable works and performs well. But synthetic line is safer, easier to handle (weighs less) and is nowhere near as fragile as you may think. If there is nothing currently wrong with your steel cable line, then keep it but when it comes time to replace it, I would strongly suggest you do so with high quality synthetic.
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Offline sharpxmen

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Re: Synthetic winch rope
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2012, 08:31:02 PM »
here's an unbiased in my opinion review of the synthetic rope, the guy replaced it after snapping his steel cable and seemed happy with the new line, he's got the pros and cons at the end
http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/2005/winch%20rope/
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Offline jfrabat

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Re: Synthetic winch rope
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2012, 09:26:28 PM »
I went through this debate a few months back...  my final judgement was something lime this:

1. Synthetics can hold the same or more tension than steel cable, but nowhere near as much abrassion
   POINT FOR STEEL (considering the abuse it sees on my Jeep)
2. Sunthetic is safer if it breaks (no argument here), but I have only seen one cable break  while I have seen 3 synthetic lines break (granted, all 4 broke from misuse).  Also, you can afford to change a steel cable a couple of times with the money you invest on synthetic rope. 
   POINT SLIGHTLY IN FAVOR OF SYNTHETIC
3. Synthetic osts 3 times or more than steel
   POINT STEEL
4. You can mend synthetic rope, but cable is less likely to break
   TIE
5. Steel will have more resistance to the elements than synthetic
   STEEL

Anyway, that is my own opinion, so feel free to disagree...

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