Topic: Plans have changed, 4 banger stays

[stan98tj]

I'm nearing the point with the 4 banger that any further serious mods (to improve off road performance) would push it further off the road and further from a vehicle that can be used ON the road as well.
The enine/transmission set up really limits me- you manual guys have a bit more leeway. So, I had made up my mind to replace the TJ with an LJ, swap my suspension and axles over, go up to 35s, Atlas 4spd and in a year or 2 a diesel swap.

Then last month we found out a baby was on the way......... 

So yeah...no LJ project.

Yeah, im excited, nervous and all, but I really dont want to give up the whole Jeep thing. NEVER! I defiantly stand against those who say I will never again set a tire off pavement!

So, I'm keeping the 4banger. But, i'm going to try and give it one last little tweak to see if i can't gain a tiny bit better off road performance without killing street performance too much.

The Jeep as it sits, works well. The suspension is low, the shocks have 12" of travel, the axles are built and locked and the belly is tucked. It works. BUT, some trails around here really need you to air down a lot and then my 33s end up giving me 31" tire clearance...and then i hit just about every single obstacle on the trail. So I'd like to go up to 35s.
Here's the plan:
35s
Outboard the rear shocks and correct the coil angle (take out the bend in the rear coils as they sit currently)
Rubicon t-case- I'll probably need a new t-case skid.

I did the gear calculations on Grimjeeper and the RPMs seemed OK for 35s, under 3k at 60 whereas I am currently well over 3k with the 33s. The 4:1 will be nice off road too.

What do you guys think???

Oh, and feel free to come up with a cool "model name" for my Jeep to put on the hood. My buddy has "Saharacon" on his hood. I'm trying to figure out a good one that would merge the 4banger with the Rubicon....

[stan98tj]

What do you guys think about swapping in alloy rims instead of steel ones to save weight? Think it would make a difference with the 35s?

[sharpxmen]

What do you guys think about swapping in alloy rims instead of steel ones to save weight? Think it would make a difference with the 35s?

my alloys were heavier than stamped steel, I did the exact opposite when going to 35s.

[BoringDave]

What do you guys think about swapping in alloy rims instead of steel ones to save weight? Think it would make a difference with the 35s?

Keep the steel wheels and pay attention to the weight of the tires your interested in.

For example:

A single 33/12.50r15 Toyo M/T weighs 69lbs. A single 35/13.50r15 Toyo is 79lbs. don't get me wrong they are a good tire for someone and wear like iron but are heavy! They would be something someone would use on a tow rig not a Jeep.

  Now look at the specs for the Goodyear Kevlars, A single 35/12.50r15 weighs only 67lbs.

Dave

[stan98tj]

Keep the steel wheels and pay attention to the weight of the tires your interested in.

For example:

A single 33/12.50r15 Toyo M/T weighs 69lbs. A single 35/13.50r15 Toyo is 79lbs. don't get me wrong they are a good tire for someone and wear like iron but are heavy! They would be something someone would use on a tow rig not a Jeep.

  Now look at the specs for the Goodyear Kevlars, A single 35/12.50r15 weighs only 67lbs.

Dave

Very good point. My Toyos are notoriously heavy. I loved them however, they wore great and handled great. But I'm not opposed to trying different, lighter brands.

[Jeffy]

If you're going to aluminum wheels and want to stay light, you'll want forged wheels not cast.  Cast can be really heavy.  Though tire weight is probably more of a factor.

I've have 35x12.5R15 GY MTR's with 4.56's and was running 15x8.5" cast aluminum wheels.  It was okay for around town but was a bit winded on the highway at 70 mph.

[stan98tj]

If you're going to aluminum wheels and want to stay light, you'll want forged wheels not cast.  Cast can be really heavy.  Though tire weight is probably more of a factor.

I've have 35x12.5R15 GY MTR's with 4.56's and was running 15x8.5" cast aluminum wheels.  It was okay for around town but was a bit winded on the highway at 70 mph.

Well, if i'm ok with the on road performance (not great, just ok), but a tire like the Goodyear's 35" MTR is actually lighter than my current tire, i should be fine, right? Especially when coupled with a wheel that's lighter than the one I'm currently running?

[Jeffy]

Well, if i'm ok with the on road performance (not great, just ok), but a tire like the Goodyear's 35" MTR is actually lighter than my current tire, i should be fine, right? Especially when coupled with a wheel that's lighter than the one I'm currently running?

Just be aware of the tire weight and try to keep it low.  Not only does it effet acceleration but braking as well.  IIRC, unsprung weight is worth about 2x sprung weight.  That means for every pound of weight added to the wheels, you could of had 2lbs added to the frame.  Also, you're multiplying that by four.

That's one of the reason I went with skinny 33's rather then full-size 33's.

[Mozman68]

Sounds like you should just buy mine and sell yours...already perfectly set up and ready for you to swap a diesel in...

[VA_YJ]

"Oh, and feel free to come up with a cool "model name" for my Jeep to put on the hood. My buddy has "Saharacon" on his hood. I'm trying to figure out a good one that would merge the 4banger with the Rubicon...."

Ideas:

Quadracon
Rubiquad
4Bangin
Duece&ahalf

[stan98tj]

"Oh, and feel free to come up with a cool "model name" for my Jeep to put on the hood. My buddy has "Saharacon" on his hood. I'm trying to figure out a good one that would merge the 4banger with the Rubicon...."

Ideas:

Quadracon
Rubiquad
4Bangin
Duece&ahalf

first 2 are def candidates!

[jagular7]

Congrads on the future parent endeavor.

As for the Jeep, yes KISS is best for all aspects but realizing 'over building' can and will take the 'fun' out of wheeling. If you wheel constant in the same area, over the years, the obstacles/trails shall slightly change. You should look into other legal areas, clubs, etc or even ORV parks for their events.

I too planned to go lower ratios for the trails. I have an auto. I've got 4.88s in the axles and 35's. Back in 09, bought a used flipped geared 4:1 with hd outputs D300 with plans to put the 231 doubler in front of it. Its been sitting for those many years. I recently traded the D300 for a TeraLow 4:1 231 with SYE out of a TJ. I think this will be more of a direct less costly swap than getting the D300 in. I'm still on the fence to use the 231 doubler (D&D Machine setup).

I've been wheeling my TJ for nearly 10yrs with how its built all over the Midwest central area, CO and UT. I would prefer to go 3/4link setup as the short arms keep me from climbing steep obstacles safely. Yah, added wheelbase too. But it also stalls or tires spin so going slower should help greatly.

In the attached pic, its a 8' tall waterfall (Rattler Lower Waterfall). Lockers required wheelbase friendly obstacle. With the short CAs, you can see the angle of the rear axle and what happens....I lift the front off the rock face and get swung over to the right. Basically standing it up. You start in the notch and as the front climbs, the rear passenger climbs and pushes you more into the notch. That's where wheelbase really helps on that obstacle.

[stan98tj]

Congrads on the future parent endeavor.

As for the Jeep, yes KISS is best for all aspects but realizing 'over building' can and will take the 'fun' out of wheeling. If you wheel constant in the same area, over the years, the obstacles/trails shall slightly change. You should look into other legal areas, clubs, etc or even ORV parks for their events.

I too planned to go lower ratios for the trails. I have an auto. I've got 4.88s in the axles and 35's. Back in 09, bought a used flipped geared 4:1 with hd outputs D300 with plans to put the 231 doubler in front of it. Its been sitting for those many years. I recently traded the D300 for a TeraLow 4:1 231 with SYE out of a TJ. I think this will be more of a direct less costly swap than getting the D300 in. I'm still on the fence to use the 231 doubler (D&D Machine setup).

I've been wheeling my TJ for nearly 10yrs with how its built all over the Midwest central area, CO and UT. I would prefer to go 3/4link setup as the short arms keep me from climbing steep obstacles safely. Yah, added wheelbase too. But it also stalls or tires spin so going slower should help greatly.

In the attached pic, its a 8' tall waterfall (Rattler Lower Waterfall). Lockers required wheelbase friendly obstacle. With the short CAs, you can see the angle of the rear axle and what happens....I lift the front off the rock face and get swung over to the right. Basically standing it up. You start in the notch and as the front climbs, the rear passenger climbs and pushes you more into the notch. That's where wheelbase really helps on that obstacle.

Gnarly pic!!
I recently joined a club that is a NOVA member. We are actively pursuing leads to get our own slice of private land to use. The majority of the NOVA clubs have access to land, being in a NOVA club allows us to join other clubs on their trail rides.

[jagular7]

NOVA - Northern Virginia?

I belonged to the Baltimore 4-Wheelers till I moved to the Midwest. I also formed the Off-Camber Crawlers (DC metro) as I lived in northern VA. OCC was a member of the Virginia 4WD Association.

I know there are several private ORV parks in the WV, PA and MD areas I'd like to hit. Bulter, PA especially...LOL

Ultimate Adventure last year or year before hit several parks in PA.

Here in the Midwest, one of my local 4wd clubs, KC4WDA, developed the Kansas Rocks Recreation Park (KanRocks) over 11 yrs ago. I helped build the park. The funds came from a petition to the states 'RTP - recreational trail program' of KS. Funds come from the gas tank collected. Cities and rural entities can petition for funds to support the build and maintenance of a bike path, hike path, etc. We found out our club could do the same. 185 ac, 3 levels of marked trails, weekends only, 5-6 events (next one is this Saturday, Wheeling for Toys), etc. Its a fee-4-use area, large lighted/fanned pavilion, pit bathrooms, covered picnic areas, large parking lot, etc. And Ultimate Adventure has been there twice!

That waterfall pic is at SMORR (Southern Missouri Off Road Ranch)....UA was there when they first opened....~1000ac, great bathhouse, cafeteria, pavilion, camping (elec sites), etc.

Good luck on your endeavor for a wheeling parcel. Make note of access allowance, liability and trespassing issues.

[stan98tj]

NOVA - Northern Virginia?

I belonged to the Baltimore 4-Wheelers till I moved to the Midwest. I also formed the Off-Camber Crawlers (DC metro) as I lived in northern VA. OCC was a member of the Virginia 4WD Association.

I know there are several private ORV parks in the WV, PA and MD areas I'd like to hit. Bulter, PA especially...LOL

Ultimate Adventure last year or year before hit several parks in PA.

Here in the Midwest, one of my local 4wd clubs, KC4WDA, developed the Kansas Rocks Recreation Park (KanRocks) over 11 yrs ago. I helped build the park. The funds came from a petition to the states 'RTP - recreational trail program' of KS. Funds come from the gas tank collected. Cities and rural entities can petition for funds to support the build and maintenance of a bike path, hike path, etc. We found out our club could do the same. 185 ac, 3 levels of marked trails, weekends only, 5-6 events (next one is this Saturday, Wheeling for Toys), etc. Its a fee-4-use area, large lighted/fanned pavilion, pit bathrooms, covered picnic areas, large parking lot, etc. And Ultimate Adventure has been there twice!

That waterfall pic is at SMORR (Southern Missouri Off Road Ranch)....UA was there when they first opened....~1000ac, great bathhouse, cafeteria, pavilion, camping (elec sites), etc.

Good luck on your endeavor for a wheeling parcel. Make note of access allowance, liability and trespassing issues.

NOVA is Northeast Offroad Vehicle Ass. An alliance of northeastern wheeling clubs from NJ, NY and New England.
Each club has private land access, I am part of NYC Jeep, we're currently working to get our own spot. Being a member of NOVA allows you to run with other NOVA clubs on their trail rides, so it really opens up the calendar for wheeling trips as you're not restricted to just your club's dates. I live in CT, and the piece of land we're trying to get is near me. Otherwise we wheel NOVA club land, or Rausch Creek (awesome park in PA) or Mabell and Old Florida Rd, which are 2 quite challenging legal trails in Massachusetts.