Topic: Double Down; crawler boxes

[Jeffy]

Ok, I'm bring this one back for some rehashing.  Here's what was said before.

Decided to throw some numbers down. I noticed I screwed up on the Doublers compound low. It's not 5.44:1 but 7.38:1.

Atlas II 3.8:1 Transfer Case $1899.95
Atlas II 4.3:1 Transfer Case $2189.95
Atlas II 5.0:1 Transfer Case $2389.95
Atlas II 6.0:1 Transfer Case $2454.95

NVG241-OR 'RockTrac' 4:1 Transfer Case $2359.95

TeraFlex 4to1 4:1 $829.95
Super Slim SYE $299
(Optional: Wide Chain $325)
(Optional: 2Lo Kit $199)

-----------------------------------
Total $1128.95 (1652.95)

Klune V Underdrive 2.7 or 4:1 $1750
Super Slim SYE $299
(Optional: Wide Chain $325)
(Optional: 2Lo Kit $199)
-----------------------------------
Total $2049 ($2573) 2.72:1/7.34:1 or 2.72:1/4.0:1/10.88:1

NV231-J Doubler Kit $??? ($500)
Welding Aluminum $20
NV231 Transfer Case 2.72:1 $300-500
Super Slim SYE $299
(Optional: Wide Chain $325)
-----------------------------------
Total $1119-1319 ($1444-1644) 2.72:1/7.39:1

So now we've got the Stak to include.  The 2-speed is $1899 for 3.75, 4.33 and 5.44:1 ratios.  This is a great deal for those who want an Atlas II but can't aford one.  You get the twin sticks and the 32 spline output for no additional cost.

I've been thinking about the Mad Rooster again though.  There is another company which makes a similar kit out there too.  I can't remember it's name though.  It doesn't require welding.  Rather they seal and bolt the side closed.  Here are some idea's I've had.

NV231-J Doubler Kit $??? ($500)
Super Slim SYE $299 + Dakota Speedometer Calibrator $79.95

or
Standard Length SYE $199
TeraFlex 4to1 $1097.99
Misc. Shift Fork $???
(Optional: 2Lo $199)
(Optional: Wide Chain $325)
-----------------------------------
Total $1796.99 (Standard) - $1976.94 (SS)
[/list]

So this setup would use the existing 231 with a 4to1 which replaces the planetary and input shaft.  A new Range fork and mode shaft would be needed but you could probably scavenge one for pretty cheap.  It's also assuming the Doubler is $500.  I think it's around $300 but I have not checked into it.

Then you have a choice.  Go with the SS and leave the rest of the drivetrain where it is or move everything forward 6.75".  If everything is moved forward the front driveshaft could be reused.  This would also allow for a piece meal sort of deal.  You could get a SYE and driveshaft then reuse the same rear driveshaft since everything will basically stay the same if you move everything forward.

So what would all this get you?  2.72:1, 4:1 or 10.88:1.

Still, it's a lot of money but this way it could be piece mealed so you don't get hit all at once.  Since driveshaft lengths stay the same you could run the SYE and standard transfer case for a while then move to Stage II later on.

TeraFlex used to sell off blems for $500-800 range which could give you additional savings.  I'm not sure if they still do this.  Last time I heard them offering blems was back in the late 90's when they were still sold through Mepco.

[Jeffy]

No one into superlow gearing? :cry:

[SMC4WD]

I'll tell you one thing Jeffy...  I do need to do T/C work in the low-range.  I've thought of so many different options, and these are certainly some of them.

Atlas is the best (at least one of the very best), and STAK is really good too.  But that TerraLow (4.1) is a nice option to the NP231 since I've already done the work at the back half of the T/C.  It is all about the money  :(   Back in the day I was able to run things through an account (on account of the wife never seeing it)...  But those times have changed, and even by making a greater income, gas, family and food created a greater out-go...

So someday things will fall into place.  Alot of low-range kits are out there.  Hopefully, by the time I could afford one, these and other viable options will still be waiting for me.

[jagular7]

I'd take the MadRooster, or copy of, with a Ford Dana 20 Bronco case, dual shifters and have a double low, front in/rear out, option of deeper gears if I wanted, same or smaller overall length in comparison to 231. That would be a fun combo to run.

[Jeffy]

I'll tell you one thing Jeffy...  I do need to do T/C work in the low-range.  I've thought of so many different options, and these are certainly some of them.

Atlas is the best (at least one of the very best), and STAK is really good too.  But that TerraLow (4.1) is a nice option to the NP231 since I've already done the work at the back half of the T/C.  It is all about the money  :(   Back in the day I was able to run things through an account (on account of the wife never seeing it)...  But those times have changed, and even by making a greater income, gas, family and food created a greater out-go...

So someday things will fall into place.  Alot of low-range kits are out there.  Hopefully, by the time I could afford one, these and other viable options will still be waiting for me.

Well, this will give you your current low, plus a 4:1 low and a compound low.  A Stak or Atlas alone won't give you the compound low.

[Jeffy]

I'd take the MadRooster, or copy of, with a Ford Dana 20 Bronco case, dual shifters and have a double low, front in/rear out, option of deeper gears if I wanted, same or smaller overall length in comparison to 231. That would be a fun combo to run.

You'd need to run lower gears in the D20 though.  Stock gears are 2.46:1, I think.  This would give you a lot of overlap between the doubler box and the transfer case without giving you the compound low.  So then you've got to get a lower gear set for the D20.  In that case, you'd probably be better off getting the Kline V and using the D20 with stock gears.  You'd also have to convert the shifter to a twin stick.

Keep in mind that the Klune is stronger then a modified 231.  The main difference I think is that the 231 only uses a 3 gear planetary.  The Klune probably uses a 5 or 6.  The HD231 uses a 6 gear planetary which bumps up the strength so it can handle being behind a V8.

[jagular7]

To keep costs minimum, skip the Klune and use the MadRooster. We're still talking about using the 4cyl or a stock 4.0l at best. No modifications of engine choice, correct?

Dana 20 - Junk yard/part sale, rebuild, probably $250
NP231 - original or junk one, free or $50
shaft adapter and reated items $450, prpbably.

In terms of cost, you'll be saving the differenc between Klune and MadRooster. Some more expense will be in the ds mods, but that shouldn't be more than $100, unless you need total rebuild and rebalance.

[chardrc]

No one into superlow gearing? :cry:

low gearing is sweet but with i get enough math is school so figuing out and thinking abvout this now is like over klill for me... but school ends thursday so after that i wuill make not to look at this thread :wink:

[Jeffy]

To keep costs minimum, skip the Klune and use the MadRooster. We're still talking about using the 4cyl or a stock 4.0l at best. No modifications of engine choice, correct?

Dana 20 - Junk yard/part sale, rebuild, probably $250
NP231 - original or junk one, free or $50
shaft adapter and reated items $450, prpbably.

In terms of cost, you'll be saving the differenc between Klune and MadRooster. Some more expense will be in the ds mods, but that shouldn't be more than $100, unless you need total rebuild and rebalance.

In most cases you'd be hacking up your existing Tcase.  But like I said, you'll have a lot of overlap if you just use a 231 doubler and a D20 without a low gear set.  You'd be better off getting a Klune since it will give you 4:1 so you'll have a better spread of gears.

[FourbangerYJ]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=451754

Here is a thread of the other company that makes a 231 doubler.

I have had the Klune- D20 set up for over 2 years. I love it :!:
The D20 comes in either 2.46 or 2.34 to 1. The early years have the lower gearing. I think it is pre 72. Both are twin stickable. There are aftermarket gears avail that are 3.15:1 from Tera and some 4.86 gears from O'brian. But the O'brians are very pricey at $1600 for the gears. Not worth it IMO. You can get a Klune for that much almost.

IMO the best setup would be something that has a fairly large split between gear ranges. IE 2.46:1 with a 4:1. Or 2:72 with a 4:1.
That way you can use them alone or but them together depending on your gearing needs.

[Jeffy]

Ah, that's the other kit I saw.

So at $399, my numbers drop a bit more.  So that would mean $1696.99 would get you a Tera 4to1, 21 spline Crawler box and the HD SYE.  Seem like that would be a pretty good deal to go that route.

[FourbangerYJ]

Ah, that's the other kit I saw.

So at $399, my numbers drop a bit more.  So that would mean $1696.99 would get you a Tera 4to1, 21 spline Crawler box and the HD SYE.  Seem like that would be a pretty good deal to go that route.

If you are in the market for a Tera 4 to 1 let me know. I have 3 friends that have fragged their kits and were replaced under warranty by Tera. One is a 23 spline out of a TJ and one is a 21 spline out of a YJ. Not sure on price. Thought I would let you know. They will be avail soon.

[Jeffy]

Ah, that's the other kit I saw.

So at $399, my numbers drop a bit more.  So that would mean $1696.99 would get you a Tera 4to1, 21 spline Crawler box and the HD SYE.  Seem like that would be a pretty good deal to go that route.

If you are in the market for a Tera 4 to 1 let me know. I have 3 friends that have fragged their kits and were replaced under warranty by Tera. One is a 23 spline out of a TJ and one is a 21 spline out of a YJ. Not sure on price. Thought I would let you know. They will be avail soon.

How'd they break?  Tire/engine size/gearing?

[FourbangerYJ]

Ah, that's the other kit I saw.

So at $399, my numbers drop a bit more.  So that would mean $1696.99 would get you a Tera 4to1, 21 spline Crawler box and the HD SYE.  Seem like that would be a pretty good deal to go that route.

If you are in the market for a Tera 4 to 1 let me know. I have 3 friends that have fragged their kits and were replaced under warranty by Tera. One is a 23 spline out of a TJ and one is a 21 spline out of a YJ. Not sure on price. Thought I would let you know. They will be avail soon.

How'd they break?  Tire/engine size/gearing?

The TJ is running 39 Krawler sticky compound. With 4.0 and 5.13 gears. The welds broke that hold the planetary gears.
The YJ is running 2.5L with 5.38's. (35's) The welds also broke that hold the planetary gears together.
Both said they were not getting on it when it broke. It started to make noise like there was a bunch or gravel in the T-case. Both drove it back to camp and were towed home. (they did not happen at the same time)
The other is a YJ with 4.2L and 4.56's.(35's) Running the 'Con last year. Ended up frying the clutch trying to make it out in 4H. Same thing, the welds broke that hold the planetary's together. He is still running his case after the front half was replaced. Not sure what his plans are with his drivetrain.
They all said it was working just fine then it started to make noise.

[Jeffy]

Interesting.  I'm assuming they're not using a Klune also?

A friend of mine has a blem in his 2.5L with 38.5" and 5.38's and never had any problems.

Have any pictures?