Topic: Project cheap build up

[GrimJeeper]

The goal is spend as little as possible and have a pretty capable four wheeler.  I bought my Jeep for $3400 primarily with the goal of having a fun 3rd vehicle for cruising the beach, around town and the occasional off roading experience.  

I have a 94 Wrangler 4 banger. I did the OME 2.5 inch lift with greasable shackles (good deal).  I added 31 inch BFG AT's.  Put on Procomp front and rear rock crawling styled bumpers (cheap).  

Now I've decided that I want to do just a little more... I found a Champion winch at Costco for $299.00 with the mounting plate and fairlead so I grabbed it.  

Now I want to add a traction aiding device, but I'm aware of the tendency of upgrading this means you need to upgrade that and so on and so forth.  I want to avoid that and really stick to the idea of keeping  the build up CHEAP!

This means letting go of the idea of building the Super Jeep.  My theme is more along the lines of SUPER CHEAP.  

I'm thinking Aussie locker (cheap) up front which correct me if I'm wrong shouldn't create any handling issues when driving on the street.

And I'm thinking a good limited slip in the rear because from what I've been reading the Dana 35 is prone to breaking. I figure a little extra traction in the rear is better than stock and the LS won't have any weird handling traits.

I figure with decent flex, locker in front, LS in the rear and a winch on the front bumper I should be able to go many places, have a good time and keep the costs reasonable.

Any of you guys ever go about it this way?  

Any advice about how to go cheaper or better with a mild increase in cost?

I'm just thinking that Jeeps are pretty fun even in stock form some well though out cost effective mods should keep the fun factor high without hurting the wallet.   :D

[SMC4WD]

Chris Franklin has reported really great stuff about that Aussie Locker...  It is 'cheap', but it's also a really good quality!

As far as a rear limited slip...  I'm sure through Ebay or Craigslist you can find a really cheap take-off.  Find a good axle (rear-end) shop and see if they could re-clutch it.  Again, cheap, and should be able to hold up for quite a few years...

I have never heard of OME being cheap.  But if you got it for cheap, you got a great deal!!

[Jeffy]

Sounds like a decent project.  Lunchbox lockers like the Auzzie tend to survive a lot longer up front the out back.  A LSD in the back is a good idea on a daily driver.  Just don't cheap put though.  A full carrier LSD will require some labor costs unless you feel confidant enough to shim the carrier. (It's not that difficult.)  I'd go with a Tractech True-Trac since it's gear driven and has no clutches to wear.  This means no clutches to replace.  The other thing you'll notice is that there might be more vibrations from the front.  This is because the front driveshaft will now turn 24/7 even with it in 2wd.  So you might have to have the front shaft balanced if you have vibes.

I'd also recommend disconnected the rear or both trackbars since they jsut stiffen the suspension.  You'll probably end up ripping the brackets off the axles if you do take it offroad and try to get it crossed up.

The next thing to do is extend the brake lines if you haven't already.  The front are easy to extend for free. (See How-To section)

[chrisfranklin]

The front Aussie I have on my '94 has worked as advertised, so far, on several of the harder So Cal trails. Picked up for $240, new, at www.Northridge4x4.com which is a decent online rock shop.  I am probably going to install a rear Aussie as well, not an LSD setup.    

I still personally see reason to think that running front and rear auto-lockers will afford you certain traction advantages that will protect the weak D35 axle (locked front-end's traction will reduce vehicle weight being pushed uphill by locked rear), at least when you are using smaller tires - maybe no more than 31", a 4 Banger, and the stock ratio (2.72) in the transfer case on a rutted, rocky hill climb.  

All else being equal (tire size, gear ratios, engine size), when you do a rutted, rocky hill climb in a D35'd Wrangler with just the rear locked, you are trying to move, probably, a "hill-supported" 3500lbs, uphill on the one rear wheel getting traction; but, w/front and rear locked in the same Wrangler, even with 70% of vehicle weight on the rear tires, your Wrangler's locked D35 rear wheel with traction is loaded with a hill-supported 2500lbs and locked D30 front wheel with 1000lbs -- much better "workload" distribution on the axles, perhaps enough to keep the D35 out of trouble, despite weight-shift.  Of course, if you're climbing crazy, practically vertical trails where weight shift is 90%(?) to the rear, then the whole "axles-sharing-the-weight-movement" deal is practically moot and you better have a spare D35 axle or maybe unwind your winch and put it in to play to take some of the workload off the heavily-loaded rear.  

We kind of hashed out this aforementioned theory on this post: http://www.4bangerjp.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1115&highlight=d35.  

"Lockers get you stuck, winches unstuck."  True saying and here's more:  "If lockers don't get you stuck, then prepare to get 'stuck' with a high repair tab, instead" See, you can do tougher trails in a locked rig, but those tougher trails will put a lot of wear on other parts of your rig.  After a hard, 6 hour off-road run on a trail where you want a locker if you are in a YJ (Miller Jeep Trail) following the Aussie D30 install, I had to have the old motor mounts replaced ($150),  nixxed my rear Bilstein shocks ($200),  trashed my gas tank skid plate (new is $300-400), and demonstrated a real need for rockers and diff guards ($500-$600).  What I am saying is that lockers (as they are typically used) seem to come with hidden costs that you may not want your cheap jeep to pay.

[SMC4WD]

Chris, these are statements that have never been truer...

Yes lockers will cause surrounding parts to work harder, take more abuse and eventually break.  Depending on your type of wheeling, where you're going down the trail, or where you're going in your future builds...  It's all really important to look at the big picture.  

But budget yourself accordingly.  Things don't just break (most of the time).  Abuse needs to take place, stresses need to occur and then it'll get ya.  So prepare in advance for the inevitable.  Hope it never happens, but prepare for when it does.  And when it does, build it up so that shouldn't break again.  Unfortunately, that moves the weak link to somewhere else.  But prepare for that too...

Winches aren't anywhere near as important as a good set of tools and great mechanical friends...  Can't beat a great group of wheeling buddies!!

[Jeffy]

Winches aren't anywhere near as important as a good set of tools and great mechanical friends...  Can't beat a great group of wheeling buddies!!

So now you're telling him to mooch off his friends.    :lol1:

[GrimJeeper]

Great advice guys and thanks for the input.  My Jeep is used 99% on the road, so my thinking and mods reflect this reality.  I live in Northern California and near Hollister Hills for anyone who may recognize the name.  They hold the "Tough Truck" competition here anually and it's a great place to do some family oriented wheeling.  

I don't have the budget for the big mods that make Jeeps into Super Jeeps so I'm trying to keep it simple.  I know of some of the inherent weaknesses with my year and model Jeep and I'll address them as they come up and if money allows, before they break.

Rock crawling is not in my future, BUT tackling some more difficult trails is.  If I tried to do a trail or obstacle and it stumped me twice I'd probably be the first find an easier route.  I know that goes against the 4 wheeling creed, but I'd rather come back a couple weekends later without having to replace any parts.


I am contemplating searching for a Ford 8.8 with a LSD and 4.10 gearing to match.  If I could do the mod and keep the costs down I'll definately do it.  

The track bars are going to be coming off for sure and although the OME stuff wasn't cheap, it also wasn't too much more so I figured F it!  

Tires are new and I won't changing them anytime soon.  Gearing gonna have to stay the same for now as well as the tranny, transfer case, and motor.  Heck I figure the motor isn't powerful enough to break stuff anyway!

Thanks again guys and keep 'em coming. :D

[Jesse-James]

Heck I figure the motor isn't powerful enough to break stuff anyway!

Never underestimate the 4banger in 4-Lo!

[chrisfranklin]

I am contemplating searching for a Ford 8.8 with a LSD and 4.10 gearing to match. If I could do the mod and keep the costs down I'll definately do it.

Yeah, personally I'd like to do this mod too, except maybe with an Aussie, No-Slip or Detroit.   You'd definitely be controlling your risks a lot better vs. with the stock D35 .  Course, better axles costs dough, so you gotta be rich like SMC  :wink: and this may not be money you want to spend on your low-budg jeep.

I am a fan of front/rear locked rigs;  using one locker, front, means I getting over the Trail ok, but I am still having to drive too fast to build momentum (a bad idea) to make it over areas on some of the harder so Cal trails. Two lockers, due to better traction, would allow me to go slower over those same areas, probably lowering stress on my tires, gears, axles, bushings, suspension components etc.  

I guess, GrimmJeeper, you have your reasons for going rear LSD - less on-road noticeability to driver and quiet.  If the rear LSD doesn't do what you are looking for traction-wise (even with a front locker taking some of the load off of the rear end), you can always sell the LSD and go to the relatively low cost Aussie or No-Slip in the rear. If the LSD does work out well for you, it'd be cool to hear about it, because I might end up putting one in myself!  :D

[DemonicHuey]

SMC4WD wrote:

Winches aren't anywhere near as important as a good set of tools and great mechanical friends... Can't beat a great group of wheeling buddies!!

jeffy wrote:
So now you're telling him to mooch off his friends.  

as long as u are the one under your own rig and not looking for ppl to fix your own problems there nothing wrong with mooching...oO(soda food water but never beer)....lmao
 :D  :D  :D

[DemonicHuey]

the Budget.... :?

its all in how u look at it if u hav the long term goals posted in the garage where u see it every damn day the goals will start wearing on u so then u will find ways to make it happen. It took damn near 2 months of looking at front bumpers to finally come up with something i truly lov and it was a fraction of a cost. Now fabrication of other componet...hell thats a whole new topic. But do the Homework first and get exactly what u are looking for..... :)  :)

[Jeffy]

as long as u are the one under your own rig and not looking for ppl to fix your own problems there nothing wrong with mooching...oO(soda food water but never beer)....lmao
 :D  :D  :D

I like taking pictures of other people's or my own carnage.  Take a picture first then worry about everything else...

[DemonicHuey]

as long as u are the one under your own rig and not looking for ppl to fix your own problems there nothing wrong with mooching...oO(soda food water but never beer)....lmao
 :D  :D  :D

I like taking pictures of other people's or my own carnage.  Take a picture first then worry about everything else...

i can see it now....."bro hold on let me take a picture....stand on top....well on the bottom...BRO i know its upside down...just stand on the skid plate"

     

[Jeffy]

Great advice guys and thanks for the input.  My Jeep is used 99% on the road, so my thinking and mods reflect this reality.  I live in Northern California and near Hollister Hills for anyone who may recognize the name.  They hold the "Tough Truck" competition here anually and it's a great place to do some family oriented wheeling.  

I don't have the budget for the big mods that make Jeeps into Super Jeeps so I'm trying to keep it simple.  I know of some of the inherent weaknesses with my year and model Jeep and I'll address them as they come up and if money allows, before they break.

Rock crawling is not in my future, BUT tackling some more difficult trails is.  If I tried to do a trail or obstacle and it stumped me twice I'd probably be the first find an easier route.  I know that goes against the 4 wheeling creed, but I'd rather come back a couple weekends later without having to replace any parts.


I am contemplating searching for a Ford 8.8 with a LSD and 4.10 gearing to match.  If I could do the mod and keep the costs down I'll definately do it.  

The track bars are going to be coming off for sure and although the OME stuff wasn't cheap, it also wasn't too much more so I figured F it!  

Tires are new and I won't changing them anytime soon.  Gearing gonna have to stay the same for now as well as the tranny, transfer case, and motor.  Heck I figure the motor isn't powerful enough to break stuff anyway!

Thanks again guys and keep 'em coming. :D

Actually you might want to check out www.Pirate4x4.com.  You probably don't want to post there since they will jump on you and beat you silly if you don't know what you're talking about. (Aka: talk out of your ass) BUT they have a lot of good tech and they have a large 4sale forum.  The Pirates are a Norcal club so most of the guy's are in the bay area.  Look for axles there.  Preferable axles from someone who's upgrading even larger.  It will be a lot cheaper to but complete axles then to regear and lock up your stockers.  Especially with full carriers.

BTW: I'm in the East Bay...

[jagular7]

I've got a cheap Jeep build myself.

Its a 97, bought 2 yrs ago for $3600, 113k miles, auto, basic interior, ripped drivers windows. Some may say that what I got in it isn't cheap. But I consider cheap in buying used and cheaper than new, swapping in better hardware for broken or weak link hardware (cheaper than repair and replace costs), and that I'm on a long term build process so money is not outlayed in a short period of time.

Maintenance is a big thing to keep up on a used Jeep. You buy used for a purpose and goal. You really don't know how well the previous owner drove and took care of the Jeep. So surprises can happen.
For axles, yah, some say the D35 is a weak link. Any money into it is a waste. Take the money and invest into a heavier accepted axle like the 8.8 or another stock Jeep axle (XJ's 8.25, for example). But if its not necessary to do now, leave it alone. Invest in your Jeep where you need it now and in short time. Long term concerns can be thought of and planned into the mods for today.

I started with a stock TJ. Maintenance necessary: shocks, steering stabilizer, 2 tie rods, front track bar, body rust, top, side windows, door windows, radiator, battery, and basic engine tuneup, filters, belts, etc. Oh, and front u-joints.
First thing mod'd the suspension with coil spacers, added adj. control arms to help adjust the axles for better angles (lower front/upper rear), added front adj track bar to recenter the axle under the Jeep, added spacer to raise rear track bar, gas shocks for 4" lift, bump stop risers to protect the shocks at full compression and body from the tires, upgrade the steering, gears/lockers/joints, installed 34" tires/wheels and wheeled it that way for a couple of months. Added front sway disconnects and removed the rear totally, added 1" body lift for better tire clearance, 1" engine lift as I replaced the broken trans mount, added t-case shifter bracket, and installed a winch I've had since 1992. All these non-seen additions help for the long term installs which come later. Finally added the last of the adj control arms so that's done. Swapped in a 8.8 couple months back after investing gear/locker into a D35. So I had to do that over again. Lesson learned. Recently added diff covers that were on sale. Bumpers were added recently.

Coming plans (and not in any particular order): family cage, rocker skids, flat fender (w/ bubble for 36" tires), rear flare to match front, flat belly engine skid, low doubler, gas tank skid, rock lights, lined interior, rear tire swing carrier, cooler/lunch box carrier system, rear corner skids,