Author Topic: Chrysler/Jeep and FoMoCo Fuel Injectors  (Read 6873 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jeffy

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 14934
Chrysler/Jeep and FoMoCo Fuel Injectors
« on: September 16, 2007, 06:50:48 PM »
In the beginning there was confusion:

Some people seem to think the 2.5L and the 4.0L used the same injectors.  They don't.  Here's the scoop. From 1991-1995 the 2.5L used the Siemens 53007232.  The 4.0L, on the other hand used 33007127 till 1993.  Then in 1994 they switched to 53030343.  The XJ seems to go along with the YJ Wrangler (the 4.0L Renix used 53003956).  To confuse things even more, the 1993 ZJ uses the same injectors (53030343) till 1995.

In 1996, some weird things started to happen.  Chrysler decided to use the 53030778 universally in both the 2.5L and the 4.0L engines for the XJ Cherokee.  The 2.5L TJ, the 4.0L and 5.2L ZJ also used these injectors.  The 4.0L on the other hand used 4854181.  Then to make things even more complicated in 1997 the XJ and the ZJ switched to 4854181 as well.

  • 1987 -1990 - 4.0L – 53003956 *Cherokee
  • 1991 -1995 - 2.5L - 53007232
  • 1991 -1993 - 4.0L - 33007127 *Wrangler & Cherokee
  • 1993 -1995 - 4.0L – 53030343 *Grand Cherokee
  • 1994 -1995 - 4.0L - 53030343

*source: http://www.crownautomotive.net/catalog/fuel/fuel_injectors.html

Now those parts number only help you find the OE part and to see which vehicles used with injectors.  What we really need to know is the rate of flow.  This seems to be a bit harder to find and isn't listed in the Factory Service Manual.  According to some people at http://www.dodgedakotas.com/ and http://www.moparchat.com/ these are the flow rates.

  • 1991-1995 (53007232) - 17.4psi/hr @ 39 psi
  • 1991-1995 (33007127 & *53030343) - 21.4psi/hr @ 39 psi
  • 1996-2003 (53030778) - 23.2psi/hr @ 43.5 psi

*needs confirmation but looks right
**source http://www.moparchat.com/ and http://www.dodgedakotas.com/


A thing or two about Injectors:

There are a lot of different things to consider when choosing a different injector.  First off there is the flow rate.  Unless you have calculated your required flow rate you will want to stay near stock.  Add too much fuel and you will run rich.  Run too small of an injector and you'll run lean.  A wide-band O2 sensor with a air/fuel gauge is a good idea when you need to experiment.  Several members have noted that when running at higher RPM's the Computer (ECM) leans out fuel.  This is really noticeable on a YJ around 4000RPMs.  The engine does not want to rev much higher without effort. More on this later.

The other consideration when choosing a fuel injector is the spray pattern.  The stock fuel injectors have a single jet.  This is the hole where the fuel is sprayed out.  Some fuel injectors have 2 or more jets to help produce better atomization.  You want the fuel to be mixed into the air evenly so a mist be better then a stream.

Lets take a look at some Ford Fuel Injectors since those are the popular ones.  The one everyone touts is the Ford Design II 'Yellow' 19lbs Fuel Injector.  The Injector is a Bosch/Delco and is rated at 19psi/hr.  The color helps make a quick ID.  Each of Fords fuel injectors are color coded.  The Design II's have a plastic upper housing with a metal lower housing.  They have a slot on neat the top that holds the retaining clip which holds it to the fuel rail.  The Design II Yellows can be found on several different cars but the most common is the Mustang 5.0L.  There is a Design III Yellows that is used on Ford Explorers.  These are easily spotted by the all plastic design.  They do not use a retainer clip and are held in place by the fuel rail itself.



It is also worth noting that the plugs for the Jeeps are known as EV-1's.  It seems the the Explorer Design III's are one of the few with the older EV-1plug on the newer injector.   There are adapters available to use the EV-1 plug on a EV-6 Injector.  Both the Yellow Design II and the Design III's use 4 jets.  The Design III's are supposed to have better atomization then the Design II's.

Getting dirty:

Tools required:

  • 11mm Socket
  • 13mm Long Socket
  • Ratchet
  • Ratchet Extension
  • Standard Screwdriver
  • Jar
  • Rags
  • Tape
  • Pen

Swapping out the fuel injectors isn't too difficult but can get messy.  Start off by disconnecting the negative battery terminal.  Make sure there is enough room above the fuel rail. So if the air hose is in the way, remove it.  Unclip the throttle cables form the top of the valve cover.  Next you will want to disconnect the plugs from the top of the fuel injectors.  These are be easy or hard.  The trick is to pull straight up.  If you pull at an angle they will not release and you risk breaking them.  Put some masking tape on them and make where they go if you do not have a Factory Service Manual handy.  If there is a pressure regulator on the rail (YJ) disconnect the vacuum line.  Next unclip the throttle cable(s).



Now that everything is disconnected you can get to work.  Start off with the 11mm socket.  There are two bolts and a nut that hold the throttle cable bracket on.  Move the bracket out of the way.  On the other side near the firewall, there is another nut that holds a plug in place.  Remove the nut and lift the plug off the stud.

Now there are two ways to go about this.  One is to remove the fuel rail as one or disconnect the injectors from the rail with it still connected.  Both are easy but I think it's easier to take the whole rail off.  This gives you enough room to clean the sockets and the rest of the intake if you want.  If you decide to take the whole fuel rail off you will want to get a jar ready and place it under the fuel and return connectors at the front of the fuel rail.  On the top of the rail is a gray cap.  Remove the cap and there is a schrader valve (same used for the tires).  This will release the fuel pressure in the rail.  It will also leak some fuel.  You might want to wrap a rag around it before releasing the pressure.



To disconnect the fuel lines you will need a standard screwdriver.  There is a white plastic clip that needs to be pulled out while pulling the fuel line in the opposite direction.  Once the line comes off, gas will flow out.  There is about ¼- ½ cup of gas in there.  The injectors are next.  Near the top there is a metal clip which holds it to the fuel rail.  You'll need a screwdriver to unhook the clip and wiggle the injector out.  It won't be easy.  The injectors are held in place by the O-rings.  If you pull too hard, the O-ring might be lift behind.  This is not a problem.



Wiggle the injectors out and inspect them.  It's probably a good idea to keep track of which injector goes where, in case you ever need to replace them.

Now, that all of the injectors are out, it's time to put the new ones in.



Before installing the new injectors make sure all of the O-rings are intact.  If you're in doubt, replace them.  This is not the place to cheap out.  To get the injectors in easier, lubricate the O-ring in some gasoline.  Don't use too much force otherwise, you risk tearing the O-ring.  Once they're in, reverse the steps and you're done.  If you can bolt down the fuel rail and it's against the tabs then the injectors are probably seated OK.



Once it's all together, it's time to reconnect the battery and try to start it up.    Turn the key to ON and wait a second or two.  This allows the fuel pump t pressurize the system.  It will probably take a second or two to start.  If the engine idles fine then you're good.  If it seems to be a little rough, you might have a fouled or damaged injector.  Check all of the plugs to make sure you haven't forgotten anything.



After thoughts:

Well according to all of the information above, the 19lbs Fuel Injectors will probably work well on a YJ with some mods.  (Test vehicle: 4.0L TB, TBS, Hi-Flow cat, cat-back exhaust, PD Ignition).  Otherwise, it might be good to try out the 17lbsDesign III injectors.  If you have a TJ, you will probably want to use the 24lbs Injectors.

Now on a YJ, I quickly noticed a difference in the exhaust.  It sounded a bit more throaty.  Around town driving didn't really change.  What I did notice was when rev'ing the engine over 4000RPM.  With the stock injectors, the engine would feel like there wasn't anymore to give.  With the new injectors the engine will easily rev over 5000RPM.  This is a clear indication that the ECM leans out the fuel at the higher RPM's.

Overall, it was a simple conversion and fairly inexpensive with used injectors.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 10:24:08 PM by Jeffy »
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZNlr60GXH5OlKIFrT7P6mg
My Jeep: http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php?topic=2783.0
"If the motor car were invented today, there is absolutely no way that any government in the world would let normal members of the public drive one."

Offline Jeffy

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 14934
Part Deux
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2007, 04:14:56 PM »
Part Deux:

So far I have done this several times over now.  It's getting really easy to swap them out and back without making a huge mess.  Previously, I installed Ford Design II D5B in the Jeep.  When I got to reinstalling them the second time I had some major problems, the engine ran like crap.  I believe what happened is that one of the injectors stopped working or it's connector wasn't on all the way although I did check the connectors.  So those were removed and the stock ones went back in for the second time.

This time around, instead of buying Ford Design II fuel injectors I went ahead and tried some Ford Design III injectors.  These are supposed to be superior to the Design II's but at the same pressure, #19.  The Design III's are a lot smaller and lighter then the old Design II's because they don't use a metal housing at all.  They are all plastic.  The other major difference is that there are no retainer clips.  The injectors are pressed between the intake and the fuel rail so the use of clips is redundant.  The other differences is with the jet end.  The jet end is much more exposed.  The overall length of the injectors is the same though.



I haven't had the Design III's in for very long but they seem to give the same results as the Design II's.  The exhaust note is a bit different and the engine seems to freely rev up to 3000rpm which results in a good lump of power.  I'm sure reving past 4000rpm is not easier since the engine won't be starving for fuel anymore.  Still, I should get a wide-band O2 sensor to get a more accurate reading of the air fuel ratio.

In the original install, I forgot to mention how much fuel will come out of the rail.  Well, if you don't take the whole rail off, it's not too bad.  A small salsa jar fits perfectly on the intake runner for #1 and #2 cylinders.  Still some gas is going to drip from manipulating the fuel rail.



So far so good though.  I'll probably have an update once I get some more miles on these injectors.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 10:28:52 PM by Jeffy »
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZNlr60GXH5OlKIFrT7P6mg
My Jeep: http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php?topic=2783.0
"If the motor car were invented today, there is absolutely no way that any government in the world would let normal members of the public drive one."

Offline sharpxmen

  • Chief Squirrel Blower®
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7093
Injector ratings and clarifications
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2009, 04:33:47 PM »
Hi all,
Not sure where to post this one and i also apologize in advance if it has been covered before.

I've seen some questions about injectors and I will try to the best of my ability to clarify some of the facts about injector flow and how it varies or how it can be altered.

Very good thread of course on this site from which i took the info regarding injector P/N here is the one posted by Jeffy in the FAQ section - this thread is not meant to cover any of that so if you wonder what kind of injectors are on your vehicle check there first.

I will start by clarifying what is the injector flow - most of the ratings for the Jeeps i've seen are at the operating fuel pressure (or the pressure on the vehicle fuel rail at WOT - wide open throttle - that is when the fuel pressure regulator is not affected by the vacuum in the intake). I will start with couple of examples:

  • 1994/1995 4.0L engines with the injectors P/N 53030343 - the injectors are rated at 21lb/hr @ 39psi: that means the injector will squirt 21 pounds of fuel in 1 hour while always open (100% duty cycle) with the Fuel Pressure in the rail at 39psi. in some places you will find this injector rated at 22lb/hr and that is because a common way to rate injectors is at 3bar or 43.5psi. So you can basically increase the fuel flow of your stock injectors if you have these ones by 1lb/hr by increasing the fuel pressure in the rail by 4.5 psi - I will show later how the flow varies in detail in relation to the pressure.
  • let's look at the injectors in the TJ 1996 to 2003 - P/N 53030778 and rated 23.2lb/hr but at 49psi (previous years were operating at 39psi fuel pressure). Same injector at a pressure of 3bar/43.5psi will deliver 21.86lb/hr and at 39psi (as for previous years) the fuel flow is 20.7lb/hr - which is slightly less than the injector in the previous example - One would think that he'll replace the injector 53030778 from a 94-95 4.0L rated at 21lb/hr with an injector 53030778 rated at 23.2 and will get more fuel in the intake - wrong, the latter actually delivers less fuel and the easiest way to get more fuel in the previous case is to increase the fuel pressure by 4 psi and get almost an extra 1lb/hr increase in fuel flow
  • to conclude, when you pick a x lb/hr injector for your engine for example, make sure you compare the flow rating at the same pressure

How does pressure affect fuel flow in an injector - well, the fuel flow is proportional with the square root of the fuel pressure in the rail so for example let's take the fuel pressure of 39psi (fuel rail pressure at wot in a '95YJ for example) and do some calculations. Let's consider for this example the Chrysler injector 53030262 found on the 5.2L and 5.9L engines - this injector will flow 24.6lb/hr @ 39psi. At idle though the YJ is around 31psi so let's see how much will it flow at idle:
the formula is to calculate the flow at a different psi is
at 31psi fuel pressure this injector will flow 21.93lb/hr - 8psi drop resulted in 2.67lb/hr less static flow (static flow = injector always open). now let's see what happens if we want to put this injector in a 1996-03 TJ with 53030778 injectors rated at 23.2lb.hr flow - first thought would be i am getting a little bit more fuel in since this new injector is rated at 24.6lb/hr, 1.4lb/hr difference, roughly 6% difference and let's say you want to compensate for the extra air given by the 62mm throttle body and cold air intake that was just recently installed - let's see what the actual flow installed on the engine would be: almost 27.6lb/hr @ 49psi (fuel pressure on TJ) = 4.4lb/hr more than stock and 19% comparatively. this will most likely make the engine run too rich in open loop and probably throw an error code in closed loop as the compensation by the PCM according to the O2 feedback would be too high (speculating here, not confirmed but it could happen and if not in this case maybe in more extreme cases).
to get an idea of how much more air can be suitable for the amount of fuel these injectors would deliver the same engine if it would run close to 3psi of boost and result in roughly the same air/fuel ratio as the stock engine - so that is quite a bit. Or to compare the resulting air/fuel ratio if we would consider 13.5 as a wot target AFR for the stock engine, these injectors would bring the AFR to 11.25, way too rich.

Probably the easiest way to get more fuel is to increase the pressure and monitor the resulting AFR if the only mods were the ones listed above - once a turbo or supercharger is installed the limitations on the fuel pump and the fact that the flow varies with the square root of the fuel pressure require either a bigger and higher pressure rated pump and larger injectors.

I hope this clarifies the flow ratings of the injectors and helps choosing the right one for the application
 -- and i apologize again if this has been covered before or if i made any errors.
'95 YJ, NSG370 6spd / Hurst shifter, Dana 300 + 4:1 Doubler / tri-stick, Custom skid, Super D35 / Auburn LSD / 4.88, 35x12.5x15 BFG KM2, 64mm t/b, 1.7 RollerRockers, MkVIII e-fan, Dual Diaph Booster
Latest: Corbeau BajaRS heated seats :dance: keeping warm the rear end

Offline sharpxmen

  • Chief Squirrel Blower®
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7093
Re: Injector ratings and clarifications
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2009, 01:41:16 PM »
I put together a table that shows the flow at stock pressures and 3bar/43.5psi as a common pressure rating as well as flow at 39 and 49psi as these are the common pressures find in our Jeeps - some of these i found online, some i calculated based on the stock pressure and flow rating. Not sure what year Jeep went to 49psi fuel pressure in the rail, i know that mpfi up to 95 was at 39psi but can't confirm when the switch was made to the higher pressure of 49psi. Also, i have no idea what the P/Ns are for the Ford 19# yellow top injectors so i listed what i could find that was used on Ford 5.0L and others

+--------------+-------------------------------------+----------------------+---------------------+-------------+-------------+
|
|
Injector P/N
Color
|
|
Vehicle / Engine|
|
Stock Flow@pressure|
|
lb/hr@43.5psi(3bar)
up to '95
|
|
lb/hr@39psi
up to '95
|
|
Flow@49psi
'96+
|
|
+--------------+-------------------------------------+----------------------+---------------------+-------------+-------------+
|
|
53007232
 
|
|
’91-‘95 Wrangler / 2.5L|
|
17.4lb/hr@39psi|
|
18.38|
|
17.4|
|
19.5|
|
|
|
53003956
Dark Tan
|
|
'87-'90 Cherokee / 4.0L|
|
21.0lb/hr@39psi|
|
22.18|
|
21.0|
|
23.5|
|
|
|
33007127
Brown
|
|
'91-'93 Wrang-Cher / 4.0L|
|
21.0lb/hr@39psi|
|
22.18|
|
21.0|
|
23.5|
|
|
|
53030343
Tan
|
|
'93-95 Grand Cher / 4.0L|
|
21.0lb/hr@39psi|
|
22.18|
|
21.0|
|
23.5|
|
|
|
53030778
Grey
|
|
'96-'03 ALL / 2.5L; 4.0L; 5.2L; 5.9L|
|
23.2lb/hr@49psi|
|
21.86|
|
20.7|
|
23.2|
|
|
|
53030262
 unknown
|
|
? (think is pre '96) / V8 5.2L & 5.9L|
|
24.6lb/hr@39psi|
|
25.98|
|
24.6|
|
27.6|
|
|
|
0-280-150-943
?
|
|
Ford
 v6-3.8l & v8-4.6l
|
|
18.3lb/hr@43.5psi|
|
18.25|
|
17.3|
|
19.4|
|
|
|
0-280-150-939
?
|
|
Ford
 v6-3.8l & v8-4.6l
|
|
18.3lb/hr@43.5psi|
|
18.25|
|
17.3|
|
19.4|
|
|
|
0-280-150-766
?
|
|
Ford
 6cyl - 4.9L 
|
|
18.3lb/hr@43.5psi|
|
18.27|
|
17.3|
|
19.4|
|
|
|
0-280-150-203
?
|
|
Ford
 6cyl-4.1L, v8-5.0L
|
|
17.6lb/hr@36.25psi|
|
19.28|
|
18.3|
|
20.5|
|
|
|
0-280-150-215
?
|
|
Ford
 6cyl-4.1L
|
|
20.4lb/hr@36.25psi|
|
22.35|
|
21.2|
|
23.7|
|
|
|
0-280-150-710
?
|
|
Ford
 1.9L, 2.3L, v6-3.0L, v6-3.8L, v8-5.0L
|
|
13.5lb/hr@36.25psi|
|
14.79|
|
14.0|
|
15.7|
|
|
|
0-280-150-717
?
|
|
Ford Trucks
 v8-5.0L
|
|
19.0lb/hr@32.0psi|
|
22.15|
|
21.0|
|
23.5|
|
|
|
0-280-150-718
?
|
|
Ford
 v8-5.0L
|
|
17.2lb/hr@39.2psi|
|
18.14 |
|
17.2|
|
19.3|
|
+--------------+-------------------------------------+----------------------+---------------------+-------------+-------------+

could be a reference if you find an injector and you want to compare it with the stock one on your vehicle - you could evaluate if it will flow more or less based on these numbers
« Last Edit: July 22, 2009, 02:02:30 PM by sharpxmen »
'95 YJ, NSG370 6spd / Hurst shifter, Dana 300 + 4:1 Doubler / tri-stick, Custom skid, Super D35 / Auburn LSD / 4.88, 35x12.5x15 BFG KM2, 64mm t/b, 1.7 RollerRockers, MkVIII e-fan, Dual Diaph Booster
Latest: Corbeau BajaRS heated seats :dance: keeping warm the rear end