Topic: Locker Questions

[jfrabat]

Hey, guys, I got a bunch of questions for you; sorry for the long list, but I want to educate myself.  I know I may have asked some of these before, but I am still not clear on how to proceed...

Which locker is more important: the front or the rear?  I have read that a lot of people leave the rear as an open diff, and lock only the front. 

I am still analyzing my locker situation, and I know I want either an ARB or OX for the rear (at some point in the Jeep's life), but I am not sure what to do for the front...  Since my D30 is a 2 piece axle, theoretically, I could put an automatic locker and still have an open diff until I use 4WD, right?  And will this make the front axle turn?  I think it will, but I am not sure...  If this is a possibility, and I were to use a Detroit Locker up front, would it click with the axle disconnected?

By the way, will a locked up D30 hold up OK to 33's?  I plan to replace the rear to a Ford 8.8 before I lock it up, so that should not be an issue...

Thanks!

[neale_rs]

A lot of people report being very happy with an automatic locker in the front with your setup.

Based on my research and consevative reliability-first bias, I would put the locker in the D30 with 33's only with upgraded alloy axles.  Of course, this would eliminate the central axle disconnect and then I don't know what effect it would have for on-road use.  Let's see what the experts recommend...   

[nic99007]

i have had OX lockers front and rear for years, no problems ever with 33" on my stock axles.    having the selectability is great in my DD, offroading I do try to drive with more "finesse" than skinny pedal (I hate broken parts) But, I'd say go for it.  

[jagular7]

Hey, guys, I got a bunch of questions for you; sorry for the long list, but I want to educate myself.  I know I may have asked some of these before, but I am still not clear on how to proceed...

Which locker is more important: the front or the rear?  I have read that a lot of people leave the rear as an open diff, and lock only the front. 

I am still analyzing my locker situation, and I know I want either an ARB or OX for the rear (at some point in the Jeep's life), but I am not sure what to do for the front...  Since my D30 is a 2 piece axle, theoretically, I could put an automatic locker and still have an open diff until I use 4WD, right?  And will this make the front axle turn?  I think it will, but I am not sure...  If this is a possibility, and I were to use a Detroit Locker up front, would it click with the axle disconnected?

By the way, will a locked up D30 hold up OK to 33's?  I plan to replace the rear to a Ford 8.8 before I lock it up, so that should not be an issue...

Thanks!

I've have always locked by axles at the same time as that was when I regeared them. However, 1 XJ was with ARBs. When offroad, I had locked the rear and only the front when necessary.  But this is not what typically a locker is. With any manual locker, you are basically spooling the axle shafts together. They will both rotate at the same speed and there will be no variance between them. There is no give and release like that of an automatic locker. Mind you, in particular offroad situations, depending on the vehicle itself, spooling the axle will help or hinder the position which the vehicle is in. Thus with a spooled rear axle, the vehicle is pushed straight and against the turned front tires. The turn is rather wide. If you do the same to the front, I could only imagine the width. I've got auto-lunch lockers and at times do have to 3-4-5 point turns to get around something that if I was open, probably turn right around it. But I do like the lockers for the wheeling I do on the trails.

Now, you have a 2-pce front axle? Is this the axle in the TJ? Only Jeep vehicle I know of relative to 2pce axles is the quick disconnect axle of the YJ and XJ. A vacuum switch is on the tcase so when the 4wd was engaged, the switch valve would allow the engine's vacuum engage the passenger side axle shaft with a floating collar.

Theoretically, auto lockers engage only from the input of the ds, thus the pinion. There are still some effects just cause it's in the diff casing and this you can notice on the street. But there is very little influence from a front axle with one without being in 4wd or having the hubs unlocked. TJs don't have hubs. Thus the axle rotates as the tire rotates.

For the size tires, 33s, locking the front D30 would have no problem.

[jfrabat]

Now, you have a 2-pce front axle? Is this the axle in the TJ? Only Jeep vehicle I know of relative to 2pce axles is the quick disconnect axle of the YJ and XJ. A vacuum switch is on the tcase so when the 4wd was engaged, the switch valve would allow the engine's vacuum engage the passenger side axle shaft with a floating collar.

Mine is a '94 YJ, as stated in the signature.  Still has the stock axles...  I thought about allow axles, but since I am planning to change the rear to an 8.8, I dont want to invest in the rear axle at all.  But I dont know if it is worth it to change the front axle to an allow given the power of the 2.5L.  But I do want to increase traction and avoid breakage (I have seen many locked D30's breack in 4.0L Jeeps back at home when locked with an OX lockaer).

Felipe

[omnisi]

Ive had a Lock-Rite locker in the front for about 6 months now.  Cant even tell its there in 2wd, and works great in 4x4....

[jagular7]

Now, you have a 2-pce front axle? Is this the axle in the TJ? Only Jeep vehicle I know of relative to 2pce axles is the quick disconnect axle of the YJ and XJ. A vacuum switch is on the tcase so when the 4wd was engaged, the switch valve would allow the engine's vacuum engage the passenger side axle shaft with a floating collar.

Mine is a '94 YJ, as stated in the signature.  Still has the stock axles...  I thought about allow axles, but since I am planning to change the rear to an 8.8, I dont want to invest in the rear axle at all.  But I dont know if it is worth it to change the front axle to an allow given the power of the 2.5L.  But I do want to increase traction and avoid breakage (I have seen many locked D30's breack in 4.0L Jeeps back at home when locked with an OX lockaer).

Felipe

Doh!!!! I don't see the signature when responding. No problem.

If anything, the vacuum disconnect is troublesome. The lines are plastic and you are working with vacuum so depending on the overall condition of the lines and how much debri is in them, you could have a functioning quick disconnect or not. There is a kit that eliminates the vacuum in favor of a cable operation. But you still have pieces which torque has to transfer through. There is also another kit that eliminates the 2-pc with a replacement of a single axle shaft. You could look for the shafts for a late model XJ (Cherokee). You'll need both the inner and outer as I believe the u-joint is bigger than your YJ. Your YJ should have 260 size u-joints which are considered to be on the small side, even for a 4cyl Jeep. Stepping up to the 297 or 760 ujoints is a better step for the front axle. I'd suggest that you locate a newer XJ front axle, remove the shafts and use them. Then resell the XJ housing as its a bonus for the TJ guys. Its a complete bolt in for them (except aligning), has reverse rotation pinion setting for better ds clearance and everything bolted on the TJ housing will transfer over, so to speak. Aligning a TJ with a XJ axle, you have to have adjusting arms. The TJ alignment is done on the axle at the lower control arm mount. On an XJ, the alignment is performed on the frame mount of the lower control arm.

Again for the locker operation, you could go expensive and get manual installed, or go cheap for now till you can regear and install the 8.8 for matching gears and lockers. Lunch box lockers are easily installed and removed. You only replace 4 little gears in the case. Nothing else. Under $300 for new ones, used get go for less than half. On used, install new pins and springs ($25) and you should be good to go. I suggest that you try the lunch box locker for a feel about them. If you can locate someone with them already installed, ask to drive the vehicle on the street.

[jfrabat]

Thanks, Jagular.  I think I'll try that XJ shaft you mentioned...  There is a U-Pick about 10 blocks from home, and they had some XJ's last time I went, although I did not check which years.  By the way, I assume I need to get the Front Shaft balanced to get this to work, right?

As for the luchbox lockers, how are they in mud?  You think they will get damaged?  I rather not spend in them if I do not plan to keep them, as I prefer to save up and get what I will ultimately keep in the rig...

Felipe

[chardrc]

we have lunch box (lock rightes) front and rear in our cj3a and they work great in the mud.. all 4 tires spin and you get thought. haven't had any troubles with them yet. (had them for 10 years)

[omnisi]

They do fin ein the mud... I was buried up to the bottom of my seats in mud/water and stalled, started back up and pulled out with the Lock-rite...

[YjMike]

Weld the front, get a cable-pull central axle disco from loc-rite...
And baby it up stuff... Crawl it.
SOme say it will pull to the left, but I don't notice it with the left,right , left pull I have (death wobble)

[cmgorman94]

I vonte for a lunchbox locker in the front. They're easy to install and a simple design.  They just replace the spider and side gears in your carrier.  The mud will not affect them at all.  I would put a selectable locker in the rear, so that it can be disconnected when not needed. You'll still be able to turn in 4WD, and you won't get the wear issues on your tires.  With a one piece axle upgrade you will have plenty of strength in that HP30 for 33s, I run a lunchbox locker in my D30 with 35s, and mine's a low pinion.  I would also go with the full case locker in your 8.8 in order to replace the carrier, which is a known weak point in the axle. All in all, you'll have a stout jeep that'll go anywhere you want it to.

[Bounty Hunter]

Your stock axles will handle 33" tires.  I ran my stock YJ axles for years with Lincoln Lockers front and rear.  I had a manual vacuum switch to control the front disconnect, works the same as a cable, so I could go to 3wd to make offroad turns easier.

The lincoln lockers are easier on the axles than an automatic lockers.  All too often I've seen auto lockers lock up under wheel spin and snap the axleshafts.  There is no axle snapping lockup of a lincoln locker to shear the axleshafts.

As for which to lock first, your biggest advantage would be to lock the rear due to weight transfer.  Weight is transfered to the rear the majority of the time when offroad, and will give you the best opportunity for traction.

I'd weld the rear, and either weld the front or install a lunchbox locker.

Check your front driveshaft for welded on weights, chances are it is balanced and you can run a lincoln locker or a 1piece axleshaft on the pass. side.

[garydubf]

I have a buddy with a high pinion 30 running an Ox and he absolutely loves it.  He put a e-locker in the rear which when not engaged is actually a limited slip.  He hardly uses the rear locker because of this.  He has the 8.8 in the rear and is running 37's.

[bestos]

have 1995 yj 32s with stock axles.  Aussie lunchbox locker in the front D30 - works great! 

rears tend to sheer easier with stock crap 35c rear from what i have read.  go with the front locker and you'll be HAPPY!