Topic: What went wrong

[jagular7]

I purchased a damaged engine TJ back late December. Was hoping to build up a bigger beast than what I have with my other TJ. But alas, need to sell. Head was supposedly rebuilt 3-4k miles prior to the engine seizing. Having an interest to sell just the head, I pulled it yesterday. Here is what I've found. PO stated that he suspects the rear cylinder to have a crack as that had water in it.

Milky sludge everwhere. The 3rd and 4th cylinders look quite different than 1 & 2.












I didn't see any obvious cracks in the head or the block. Once I removed the head, I started to clean things up and leaned against the Jeep. It started rolling backwards. My son took a pic when I called for his help.


Driveway is a little steep. But the other red TJ was parked about 2' behind it. It wouldn't have rolled very far.


I had a block holding a rear tire, but used that during the day to hold my blue TJ to add wheel spacers. When I was done installing, my son removed the block and pulled the TJ down into the street. He helps when he can as he's 12.

Water jacket is all rusty. Is that normal for use with antifreeze?
Notice the rockers have no height difference to them. I'd suspect the cam to be bad or broken. All push rods look fine. Will find out tomorrow when I rotate the engine and watch to see if the rotor rotates with the engine.

Blue TJ is my wheeling Jeep. Its 4cyl/auto, D30/8.8, 4.88s/locked, and new 35's. The other red TJ is a 6cyl/auto stock that I picked up cheap during the summer. My 15.5 yo daughter so far has gotten straight A's in HS. This is for her if she keeps up the great grades. (Cheaper for me to get her a 13 yo Jeep than to pay for college - lol   ).

[Jeffy]

Well, the head looks OK even with all the water/oil sludge.

The jackets can look rusty if the PO didn't keep the coolant mixture right.  Probably kept adding water and it diluted the mixture till rust started forming.

Have you tried cranking the engine over by hand and watching the push rods go up and down?  Since the water pump is off, it's not much more work to take the timing cover off as well.  PO must have been rev'ing it hard if the came just broke.  #4 doesn't look like it's fired in a while either.

Where did all the water come from?  Submerged the engine?

[aw12345]

The sludge means coolant or water got in the oil. You should have done a pressure test with compressed air before you pulled it apart. Would have given you a better idea. of what is going on. Now if the cylinder wall are good and the pistons look good I guess you could fill the coolant jackets to near the top of the engine block and see if the liquid seeps out into the oil pan. Cyl 4 did not run, that is why it looks wet have the cyl head magnafluxed or pressure tested, most likely the cyl not running and the coolant in the oil go hand in hand

[Jeffy]

The sludge means coolant or water got in the oil. You should have done a pressure test with compressed air before you pulled it apart. Would have given you a better idea. of what is going on. Now if the cylinder wall are good and the pistons look good I guess you could fill the coolant jackets to near the top of the engine block and see if the liquid seeps out into the oil pan. Cyl 4 did not run, that is why it looks wet have the cyl head magnafluxed or pressure tested, most likely the cyl not running and the coolant in the oil go hand in hand

Might not show a leak if it's not under pressure though.   From what little is shown in the pics, it doesn't look like it leaked coolant.

[oldjeep]

Any chances that Jeep was a flood victim?  There seems to be rust on everything in that engine bay.  Wouldn't expect to see rust on the pulley belt surfaces

[aw12345]

A flood victim would not really have one cylinder that doesn't run #4 is wet/ did not run.
Best would have been to pressure test cooling systejm and leak test cylinders before disassembly would have given you a better idea. Since its a apart I would start with having the cylinder head checked/ pressure tested or magnafluxed for cracks if nothing is found there, you got some more digging to do.
In cases like this its always better to try and figure out things before disassembly if at all possible.
From the looks of it the head gasket did not fail nor did the deck of the engine block or the gasket surface of the cyl head. This makes for some nice detective work

[Jeffy]

A flood victim would not really have one cylinder that doesn't run #4 is wet/ did not run.

Unless it's an unrelated issue.

[oldjeep]

#4 just looks like bad rings.  Looks like oil, not gas

[aw12345]

Could be a number of things an intake valve not opening will suck a lot of oil past the rings also.
Some foot work in the beginning would have revealed a lot. Now the key is to figure out how the water/ coolant got in the oil and go from there

[Bikerjr1]

Looks like a flood victim.  Did the trany have any water in it?  You could do a carfax or DVM check and find out where it has been, that could tell you if it was possibly in a flood area.  The timing would be about right for some of the recovered ones to be making it to market.  Your insurance company could check to see if it has ever had a claim on it.  The souths been hit with a number of floods in the past two years or so.
good luck with it,
JR

[jagular7]

I had bought the TJ to build since it had a bad engine. I have a 4.3l, auto, klune/205, Ford D60R, 14B?10.25?, lift coils/leafs, etc. I got it before Xmas. It was below freezing in Oct, Nov and Dec several times. Now since Jan, my wife only works 4 hrs a week rather than 40. That is a hit in the pocket.
I wasn't going to look into using this engine at all. Owner told me cyl #4 leaked and that is how water/oil mixed. Intake, exhaust, and a lot of the bolts were off. Bolts were gone as was the radiator. It souped out when I drained the oil. I let it drain for 3 days in the 50s.

I took a chance and purchased a 75k 2002 2.5l/auto/tcase and was going to do an engine swap to sell. So I'm testing the waters right now to sell it without much labor for $4100. I removed the head as it was supposedly rebuilt with 3-4k miles on it. I sold that last night. I have an interested buyer in the header, but the he hasn't come up with the money yet.

From what I was told, no flooding. From the looks of it, water with little antifreeze was used. Even the heater core has the rusty residue. The rust on the intake/exhaust side is questionable. Is the intake a wet intake? The engine rotates freely, obviously. Didn't see any scratches on the cyl walls with the rotation so far. I wasn't able to get to rotate the engine last night either. With the rockers being even, the suspect is the cam.

All the rockers had tilt play when the buyer reviewed the head. All the valves were seated and the springs were all secured. The head gasket blocked 6 small coolant holes next to the interior hold down bolts. (Was told that is normal.) The outer jackets had openings in the gasket. The buyer is a co-clubber and if the head is bad, I'll give back his money.

Several parties are interested just in the Jeep without 02 engine or with just the 02 engine. If the TJ sells without the auto/tcase, I can use that in my Blue TJ. So I have some other use from the left over pieces. Just noone has come forward with a strong interest, just people calling/emailing.