Topic: Gathering_parts_for_my_Turbo_Project (NEED HELP/ADVICE!!!)

[phillsam]

So i was given a stock 2002 subaru wrx turbo, a TD04, and it has me dreaming of a turbo build

I have been reading the builds on here but also found one at this link
http://www.myvirtualpaper.com/doc/APV/4WD/2009042401/39.html

And it looks to be exactly what I want to do.

He said the whole build cost him around $500
-He used a slip second map controller to use with his laptop
-Hesco pressure regulator
-Grand cherokee injectors

Anyone know what lbs/hr those are?
Ive got the 19# design III in mine right now and hoped it would be enough

Also, the article doesnt list specifics of those items
Would it have to be a hesco? Or could I go with something less name brand(less $$)
And there are a few versions of the MAP controller from Split second, anyone know which to go with or if there might be a better brand?

Im trying to accomplish this as inexpensively as possible and will be gathering parts slowly only when I find good deals
I am not opposed to used parts so if anyone knows of something I may be interested in please let me know!!!


Thanks in advance guys

[sharpxmen]

So i was given a stock 2002 subaru wrx turbo, a TD04, and it has me dreaming of a turbo build

I have been reading the builds on here but also found one at this link
http://www.myvirtualpaper.com/doc/APV/4WD/2009042401/39.html

And it looks to be exactly what I want to do.

He said the whole build cost him around $500
-He used a slip second map controller to use with his laptop
-Hesco pressure regulator
-Grand cherokee injectors

Anyone know what lbs/hr those are?
Ive got the 19# design III in mine right now and hoped it would be enough

Also, the article doesnt list specifics of those items
Would it have to be a hesco? Or could I go with something less name brand(less $$)
And there are a few versions of the MAP controller from Split second, anyone know which to go with or if there might be a better brand?

Im trying to accomplish this as inexpensively as possible and will be gathering parts slowly only when I find good deals
I am not opposed to used parts so if anyone knows of something I may be interested in please let me know!!!


Thanks in advance guys

i have high doubts that those setups came to $500 - looks like none of the items included shipping btw (see intercooler for $39 - usually the shipping is like $50 on those auctions - check ebay, i got one myself so i can tell you first hand) - let's put this at $80 with shipping
Split Second - $290 (i think) for the regular one with only MAP output, $350 for the -E version that would allow you to change your O2 sensor output so you are not bound to closed loop when in boost
turbo - they said $139 off ebay, most likely need to add shipping to this as well but you can get one at pick n pull
the silicone high temp couplers (the blue or red ones you see there) look like 3 or 4 ply reinforced, those are at the lowest around $20 each (the red ones i am pretty sure are at least $30 as they look like the vacuum resistant ones and are most likely at least 4 ply) or could get better if you get them in a pipe package but those are not good quality, let's put them at $10 x 5 (just a guess) = another $50
you cannot use the 19# injectors they just don't deliver enough fuel (well you can try but if you end up too lean you'll melt the pistons) - so conservatively let's add $80 for the set
blow-off valve - add another $50
pipes should take you another $50 or so
AFR and boost gauge - at a minimum another $80 (unless you want to go with some cheapo that will be inaccurate this is probably a fair guess)
FPR - $165 - you can find cheap versions of these on ebay, i do not recommend that though, you will end up spending in that neighbourhood with a good one.

so not counting the fab for the mount, exhaust pipes and intake piping this all ads to a total of (and i did not include shipping on anything other than the intercooler as that's the way those items are sold on ebay): $985 with the lower cost Split Second.

add shipping for all those items, bracketry and exhaust pipes and will take you to about $1300, so i'm not sure where the $500 came from - there are also lots of other little things that you don't account for and for example add the nuts and bolts + washers that you will use at about $1.50 per set and considering that you'll most likely use about 20 of them that is another $30. if you do some work yourself don't forget to count in welding supplies, abrasive/cutting supplies and other little things (you might want to paint the pipes if you're using exhaust ones like in those pics) - add another $10 for a heat friendly spray can.

$500 for a good setup (like those 2 seemed to be) - not likely, but that's just my opinion (maybe if you did it before and have leftovers from the first build you might pull that off but realistically it's a long shot counting all the little things).

EDIT: forgot to add
- DEI exhaust wrap from one of those pics - another $25
- oil return bung + welding + fitting + hose (returning oil from the turbo to the oil pan) $25 (just so i don't put $35 which is more than reasonable)
- oil pan gasket $10
- oil pressure steel braided hose $15
- brass Ts and fittings for water cooling the Volvo turbo: 6 fittings at $2 each + 2 Ts at $3 each = $18 not counting the hoses.

all this ads to another $103 (not likely to be that low, but just for argument's sake)

i could find more if i look more closely but i think i made my point.

 

[phillsam]

i have high doubts that those setups came to $500 - looks like none of the items included shipping btw (see intercooler for $39 - usually the shipping is like $50 on those auctions - check ebay, i got one myself so i can tell you first hand) - let's put this at $80 with shipping
Split Second - $290 (i think) for the regular one with only MAP output, $350 for the -E version that would allow you to change your O2 sensor output so you are not bound to closed loop when in boost
turbo - they said $139 off ebay, most likely need to add shipping to this as well but you can get one at pick n pull
the silicone high temp coouplers (the blue or red ones you see there) look like 3 or 4 ply reinforced, those are at the lowest around $20 each (the red ones i am pretty sure are at least $30 as they look like the vacuum resistant ones and are most likely at least 4 ply) or could get better if you get them in a pipe package but those are not good quality, let's put them at $10 x 5 (just a guess) = another $50
you cannot use the 19# injectors they just don't deliver enough fuel (well you can try but if you end up too lean you'll melt the pistons) - so conservatively let's add $80 for the set
blow-off valve - add another $50
pipes should take you another $50 or so
AFR and boost gauge - at a minimum another $80 (unless you want to go with some cheapo that will be inaccurate this is probably a fair guess)
FPR - $165 - you can find cheap versions of these on ebay, i do not recommend that though, you will end up spending in that neighbourhood with a good one.

so not counting the fab for the mount, exhaust pipes and intake piping this all ads to a total of (and i did not include shipping on anything other than the intercooler as that's the way those items are sold on ebay): $985 with the lower cost Split Second.

add shipping for all those items, bracketry and exhaust pipes and will take you to about $1300, so i'm not sure where the $500 came from - there are also lots of other little things that you don't account for and for example add the nuts and bolts + washers that you will use at about $1.50 per set and considering that you'll most likely use about 20 of them that is another $30. if you do some work yourself don't forget to count in welding supplies, abrasive/cutting supplies and other little things (you might want to paint the pipes if you're using exhaust ones like in those pics) - add another $10 for a heat friendly spray can.

$500 for a good setup (like those 2 seemed to be) - not likely, but that's just my opinion (maybe if you did it before and have leftovers from the first build you might pull that off but realistically it's a long shot counting all the little things).
 

Thanks for the reply,
The author of the article I linked said he got the turbo for 60 from a pick-apart
I would hope to gather many of the parts from a junk yard as well to lower the cost.

I also would be fabbing my own brackets and mounts. Hopefully most the bending would be done by me as well.

If you have any ideas to lower the cost, which injectors to use, any other map controllers?

any input helps!

[sharpxmen]

Thanks for the reply,
The author of the article I linked said he got the turbo for 60 from a pick-apart
I would hope to gather many of the parts from a junk yard as well to lower the cost.

I also would be fabbing my own brackets and mounts. Hopefully most the bending would be done by me as well.

If you have any ideas to lower the cost, which injectors to use, any other map controllers?

any input helps!

i just updated my previous post with some added cost.

I am not saying you cannot do it for $500 if you go ghetto on it (use things that work as well as duct tape) - so you can do it but: will you drive it like that? most likely not until you get the right parts to make it safe to use (not risking to remain on the road somewhere) - so you can build a minimum setup for cheap, test and get an idea of what you would need at a minimum and then buy or look for good deals in time (finding a deal on a part on ebay or craigslist takes time, it does not mean that if someone found a turbo that only had $50k miles on it at a wreckers for $60 it is readily available for the next customer) - this is what i meant by not likely to do it for $500. If you want to do it right will cost more than that, if you want to test and see how it works $500 a fair budget.

if you want to know what injectors to use you need to know what boost you will be running. The PSC1 will help you adjust via the MAP output but the stock injectors even if open 100% they will be limited in flow. there are other solutions out there for the fuel management but the result will be the same, $350 for the split second seems a reasonable deal considering that a 2 bar map will take you about $50 and you'll need additional things around it to make it work (if you can make it work).

EDIT: i think i've seen some dodge injectors that might work, i'll try and see if i can find the model/year of the truck but that would be most likely tomorrow - on the same line with the above, a set of "you pull it" injectors can be obtained cheap but in time you will want to shop for some good ones as if they leak or don't atomize properly it affects how the motor runs

[sharpxmen]

this is an example, but it could work on a budget build until you get the right injectors

Chrysler injector 53030262 found on the 5.2L and 5.9L engines - this injector will flow 24.6lb/hr  (at)  39psi

if you would be to run 5psi of boost that would give you in the neighbourhood of 168HP if you consider stock to be at 125 (i added 5HP for 4.0L t/b and high flow air filter)
if you go with an adjustable FPR with a vac/boost port and if you can increase the static pressure in your rail to 50psi your fuel pressure at full boost will be around 55psi (considering that your fuel pump will cope with it - the TJ runs at 49psi so that would be a choice if you want to upgrade but i did not do it myself so i can't say for sure what's involved) - at that pressure these injectors will flow 29.2 lb/hr - that is good for about 165HP, so you could use those injectors - but you will still need to fine tune it based on the resulting AFR and also using the piggyback ecu (split second unit)

like i said this is an example and not guaranteed to work, it is more likely that you will need larger injectors but you can find quite a bit of info online regarding various injectors and how much they flow based on fuel pressure - in all honesty i suggest you look for something at least 28lb/hr at 39 psi so you have some room to adjust  with your FPR (but here again it depends on your boost and fuel pump and if the latter will support enough flow at the required pressure)

Now even with a budget build, how do you plan on tuning it? You will need some way of telling you what the AFR is to get it right and create your fuel map in the PSC unit (watching the A/F gauge while you drive will be as good as your logging capabilities and the accuracy of your narrow band O2 sensor - not saying that you won't get results but it will be a long and tedious process) - unless you find someone with the exact injectors, using the same fuel pressure and FPR and a turbo like yours to get the fuel map from you will need to do it yourself (your PSC will be delivered with a preset MAP that the Split Second guys will load it based on what your target boost is and whether you intercool or not, it will not be close but will give you a headstart)

[st.chevrolet]

Do the pictures of the turbo set up in 4WD magazine on the Jeep YJ look familiar?

[phillsam]

Sharpx--> thanks for all the info, that is great. I will be looking into this.

Do the pictures of the turbo set up in 4WD magazine on the Jeep YJ look familiar?

What do you mean? no they dont...
Is it your build? If it is, i would love to ask you some q's

[sharpxmen]

Sharpx--> thanks for all the info, that is great. I will be looking into this.



What do you mean? no they dont...
Is it your build? If it is, i would love to ask you some q's

that's what he's saying but i have the feeling that the question was for me as in I was wrong with those numbers - he'll be able to help you out better with pricing and part #s since is his setup.

[st.chevrolet]

that's what he's saying but i have the feeling that the question was for me as in I was wrong with those numbers - he'll be able to help you out better with pricing and part #s since is his setup.

lol Sharpxmen the question was not meant for you, your numbers are pretty accurate. I built it as a budget build with materials left over from other projects, it ran pretty good but not like I wanted. So to be able to tune it properly and have it run like it did stock I purchased the PSC1-002 & Hesco FPR and broke the budget. Like you, I build everything I can myself, I am also a certified welder and have a Miller 251 Mig, a Hypotherm 600 Plasma cutter and access to a Miller Dynasty 300 Tig machine. By the way I like your snorkel and your aftercooler setup, nice work!

[dwtaylorpdx]

FYI - I ran across a data sheet at Autozone for the YJ in tank pump.
Their unit will handle up to 100 lbs pressure,  Its 88.95 and is the one
you have to refit to the pump stanchion in the tank, looks just like the
stock pump, So much so I suspect its the same manufacturer.

I was considering adding a power pass-through to the tank and installing a
second pump, with a selector switch for A or B or Both at high power levels.
I've noticed a slight bog under WOT when I'm playing hard and I think its
the fuel pump falling behind for a second. Plus if the dang thing fails its a nasty
trail fix, so the second pump would be the spare. I'm also thinking have one
pump sucking in the front of the tank and one at the back so steep hills
would not be an issue. (I've had a bad week with fuel delivery so today I am paranoid...)

Dave T PDX

[chardrc]

the jeep tanks aren't realy that long so unless you are running on fumes you shouldn't have to worry about sucking our of the front or back of the tank. a back up may be good.. but remember simplicity limits the amount of problems you can have ... 

[sharpxmen]

lol Sharpxmen the question was not meant for you, your numbers are pretty accurate. I built it as a budget build with materials left over from other projects, it ran pretty good but not like I wanted. So to be able to tune it properly and have it run like it did stock I purchased the PSC1-002 & Hesco FPR and broke the budget. Like you, I build everything I can myself, I am also a certified welder and have a Miller 251 Mig, a Hypotherm 600 Plasma cutter and access to a Miller Dynasty 300 Tig machine. By the way I like your snorkel and your aftercooler setup, nice work!

didn't occur to me that was yours but had an epiphany when you asked the question  - thought you were about to tell me that it did cost $500 and i was getting jealous 
congrats on having your Jeep in the mag 

thanks for the props on the aluminum work - wish i could take a month off and only focused on the Jeep :) that would make it come along faster

so the PSC and Hesco were not in the $500, that makes sense

phillsam was looking for the injectors you used, i listed those Chrysler ones but maybe you can tell him which ones did you use

good to see you back on the board, you were away for a bit looks like, there were a few guys interested in your build here but some of them just stop by when they have a problem and never hear back from again

[sharpxmen]

the jeep tanks aren't realy that long so unless you are running on fumes you shouldn't have to worry about sucking our of the front or back of the tank. a back up may be good.. but remember simplicity limits the amount of problems you can have ... 

they're not long but they are wide, i sometimes get fuel pressure drop on a long hwy exit turn if the fuel level is low (not on fumes though). His suggestion/concept is interesting with having 2 pumps in parallel, problem is that you really don't want to run both at the same time as it will recirculate the heck out of the extra fuel - according to Kenne-Bell FAQs that can be of bad consequence to the fuel due to evap and heat generated by that. I am wondering if there would be a reasonable way to activate the second one when needed but keep it in somehow synchronized with the resulting fuel pressure given by the vac port (base pressure on 95 YJ for example is 39psi with around 31psi at idle so based on the vacuum in the manifold would vary between those 2 values) - could maybe be a flowmeter on the return line and when it falls under a certain amount activate the second pump - i didn't do any research on this so i am not sure if anything like this exists, but if it does would be a great thing to have (i am personally interested in it for my supercharger setup).

FYI - I ran across a data sheet at Autozone for the YJ in tank pump.
Their unit will handle up to 100 lbs pressure,  Its 88.95 and is the one
you have to refit to the pump stanchion in the tank, looks just like the
stock pump, So much so I suspect its the same manufacturer.

problem is not how much pressure can a pump make, most of the late fuel injection pumps will put out lots of psi, the question is how much it will flow at a higher pressure (the flow drops with the pressure in the rail due to the added force that the pump needs to overcome) - on the other hand the higher pressure rated pumps will flow more, i don't know what the stock YJ pump is rated at from factory (max operating psi is sometimes listed as in what is the max pressure that a pump can deliver before seizing unless the flow for that pressure is specified)

I was considering adding a power pass-through to the tank and installing a
second pump, with a selector switch for A or B or Both at high power levels.

that's an interesting concept, if you get anywhere with this i would love to hear more details about it.

I've noticed a slight bog under WOT when I'm playing hard and I think its
the fuel pump falling behind for a second.

i don't see how the pump can fall behind and then recover (considering that you keep the pedal to the floor and have wot for more than the second in question) - the only way that would be related to your pump is if something is happening with your fuel pressure during that time so i suggest to monitor the pressure while doing this test and see what the result is.

[phillsam]

lol Sharpxmen the question was not meant for you, your numbers are pretty accurate. I built it as a budget build with materials left over from other projects, it ran pretty good but not like I wanted. So to be able to tune it properly and have it run like it did stock I purchased the PSC1-002 & Hesco FPR and broke the budget. Like you, I build everything I can myself, I am also a certified welder and have a Miller 251 Mig, a Hypotherm 600 Plasma cutter and access to a Miller Dynasty 300 Tig machine. By the way I like your snorkel and your aftercooler setup, nice work!

So it ran fine after just bolting the turbo and re-routing the exhaust?
What did it run like?
Im toying with the idea of just doing it and adding the MAP controller and FPR if it isnt daily driver worthy.
How hard was it to tune it yourself?

Did you notice any improvement is fuel mileage? I have read that some see a pretty decent increase
Im trying to pitch this idea to the wife and need to build my case :)

Thats aweomse you can do it mostly by yourself.
That is what i'm trying.
I have a degree in Drafting & Engineering graphics so i can document and design everything but still need better fab skills
but have friends that can weld very well so that is helpful.

Your build is awesome
Do you have a build thread?
Or any additional pics?