Topic: Missing tack bar in front?

[Steve-0]

Was anyone able to recognize the axle on the front and also see the tag on the transfer case and rear end? Also, did you notice that the studs under the u-bolt plate (assuming the bolt up point for lower control arms or is it for a shock mount?). There isnt another bracket for the control arms anyway.

[oldjeep]

Was anyone able to recognize the axle on the front and also see the tag on the transfer case and rear end? Also, did you notice that the studs under the u-bolt plate (assuming the bolt up point for lower control arms or is it for a shock mount?). There isnt another bracket for the control arms anyway.

That's a stock D30 front axle for a YJ.  You can't see them in your pictures but the pins on the front u-bolt plates are where the sway bar would hook up if it were there.

Tcase is just a stock NP231
Rear axle is just a stock D35C
Gear ratio is 4:10/4:11 like every other 4 cyl YJ

[Steve-0]

Well, the guys from Les Schwab said that they checked everything from bushings to ball joints and everything looked fine. They said that the perches were obviously welded on and the shackles up front were also welded on. So I concluded the conversation with it could possibly be a bit out of alignment and missing a track bar. But he didnt have much to day of a solid answer. He said that the pitman arm was in the way for a track bar. But I thought they were bent to fit around the pitman arm. I am at a bit of a loss here. But i dont really think that a front drag link would make it feel like its twisting like it is on the road. You can really feel it in the rear when you hit 5th gear on the freeway. Something is lose and I cant figure it out.

[oldjeep]

Well, the guys from Les Schwab said that they checked everything from bushings to ball joints and everything looked fine. They said that the perches were obviously welded on and the shackles up front were also welded on. So I concluded the conversation with it could possibly be a bit out of alignment and missing a track bar. But he didnt have much to day of a solid answer. He said that the pitman arm was in the way for a track bar. But I thought they were bent to fit around the pitman arm. I am at a bit of a loss here. But i dont really think that a front drag link would make it feel like its twisting like it is on the road. You can really feel it in the rear when you hit 5th gear on the freeway. Something is lose and I cant figure it out.

The perches are always welded on - or they fall off
Shackles welded on?  Welded to what?  Shackles are the little bar things that connect the leaf springs to the frame.

I'd say for starters that the guy at Les Schwab doesn't have a clue.  Find a local jeep guy with a clue to look at it.

[Steve-0]

No, I meant that new perches were welded on. Like someone either broke them or something and new ones were welded on, but only the lower part of them. I think you can see them in the pictures. As far as the shackles, I thought they were supposed to be able to move for flex. Can you see the shackles in the front? Or do I not even have any in front and it is just a dropped spring perch?

[oldjeep]

No, I meant that new perches were welded on. Like someone either broke them or something and new ones were welded on, but only the lower part of them. I think you can see them in the pictures. As far as the shackles, I thought they were supposed to be able to move for flex. Can you see the shackles in the front? Or do I not even have any in front and it is just a dropped spring perch?

Dropped spring perch?  Are you talking about the lower shock mounts that look like they've been welded?

A spring perch is the pice which is welded to the axle tube and sits between the axle tube and the leaf spring.

As for shackles, I can't figure out what you think a shackle is

[Steve-0]

This is what I am talking about...




There is a shackle in the rear of the leaf spring and non in the back springs at all.

[Jeffy]

Apparently the PO of my YJ put in a front end that does not match. It is missing the track bar or something (per alignment shop) so it twists a bit when I hit the gas and then pulls to the right when I let off the gas and real bad when I hit the breaks. And I think he said the perches are wrong on it too. It is obviously a Jeep axel, but what the hell is it? Also, what does the stabilizer bars do if taken off? They are also off. Is it better for flexing? I have no idea.

Thanks

Looking at the picture, I can see it has a lift.  Know what kind it is?  looks like a 3-4" lift.  The axles are stock.  The picture of the ID Tag even tells me it has 4.11:1 gears which means it's the rear tag.  You're only missing the track bar not not the drag-link.  I would say that the pull you're experiencing is bump-steer.  You have a lot of angle between the drag-link and the tie-rod.  That combined with the lack of a track-bar and soft/old springs and you'll get bump-steer.  When the suspension compresses or extends enough, it causes the distance between the drag-link ends to change (gets longer or shorter) and because of it's alignment, it's not able to cope so the wheels turn.  If you hold the steering wheel softer, then you should see the steering wheel turn instead.  On hard acceleration it should turn left and on hard braking it should turn right.

What the track-bar does is prevents the suspension from cycling too much.  This is bad for off road but will help on road.  You could put a track bar on BUT you need to make sure that it's parallel with the drag-link.  If it isn't, it will bind with the drag link as it cycles.  Since you have a lift you'll need a longer track-bar since the distance is greater then the stock bar can go.  Most lift companies sell track bar extension mounts BUT you will need to use this with a dropped pitman arm since that will change the angle.

You could add a dropped pitman arm (and leave the track bar off) or flip your tie-rod so they are on top of the knuckles to help lessen the bump steer.

BTW: the front track bar mount has a small U shaped bracket inside.  That should come out since it's not bolted in.  Although, in the pictures it looks like it's being held in with rust/mud.

[Jeffy]

This is what I am talking about...




There is a shackle in the rear of the leaf spring and non in the back springs at all.

Oh and now that I see this, it's bumpsteer.  The shackle reversion is also attributing to the soft suspension and amplifying the effects of the bumpsteer....

[Steve-0]

DING DING DING!!! Thats it. It doesnt really pull to the left at all at hard acceleration, but definitely goes to the right when I let off the gas and especially when I hit the breaks. I also noticed that my steering wheel will move slightly to the left when I am going fast enough on a road with whoops to compress the springs. So the shackles were reversed? What gain would that hold? And since the axle is stock, do they all have the studs for control arms on the ubold plates? Cuz there isnt anything on the frame to accept any control arms. Thanks guys.

[oldjeep]

That picture explains it all.  Someone did a shackle reversal.

And you are saying that there are no shackles on the rear springs at all?  got a picture of each end of those springs?

[Jeffy]

DING DING DING!!! Thats it. It doesnt really pull to the left at all at hard acceleration, but definitely goes to the right when I let off the gas and especially when I hit the breaks. I also noticed that my steering wheel will move slightly to the left when I am going fast enough on a road with whoops to compress the springs. So the shackles were reversed? What gain would that hold? And since the axle is stock, do they all have the studs for control arms on the ubold plates? Cuz there isnt anything on the frame to accept any control arms. Thanks guys.

The reversal soften the suspension and gives you a bit better tracking.

The studs on the front U-bolt plates are for the sway-bar which also seems to be missing.  If you look on the underside of the frame you should see two screw holes on each rail.  One set should be around just behind the steering box.  Those hold the straps which hold the sway bar.  The sway-bar isn't what's causing the bump steer but if you don't like how teh body is rolling on turns then you might consider putting that back on.

Your Jeep does not use control arms since it has leafs.  Control arms are for coil spring suspensions.

[jfrabat]

The shackle is defenetly reversed.  Some people say its better, others say it is not (I am in this latter group), so there's a lot of personal preference involved.  In this case, the shackles should be on the rear of the spring (not shown in the photo).   Can you post a picture of the rear part of the front springs, to see the shackle?

I would consider putting the sway bar on (with disccos) and would leave the track bar out, but this is more for controlling the body roll than it is for the bumpsteer.  I think the others have pretty much covered the issues with the bumpsteer...

[jfrabat]

By the way, I dont know if it helps in the case of a shackle reversal, but on a normal lift (with shackles on the front), you typically use a dropped pitman arm (from the pic, it seems you have the stock one) for a 4" lift (which I assume you have based on the arch of your springs).

[sharpxmen]

That picture explains it all.  Someone did a shackle reversal.

And you are saying that there are no shackles on the rear springs at all?  got a picture of each end of those springs?

that will make it a stiff ride,

x2 on the pics for front and rear springs (both ends).