Topic: The dilemma: Rockcrawler v Expedition

[Jeffy]

sorry Jeffy, i thought we're listing what would be good to have on an expedition vehicle, i didn't mean you should get these (somehow i knew you've got those, can't remember from which thread might have been the Jeffy's Joop one).

No problem, this can be a general thread.  I just put up my Jeep as an example.

[Jeffy]

Regarding the generator, I am thinking camping on the beach; you have NO IDEA how hot it can get down here, and having a fan that can run all night is a blessing from above!  Not to mention it is useful to have 110V to run whatever power tool or electronic you may need along the way.  And since we are talking about a generator the size of a large lunchbox, I think it would be nice...  

Another choice is to get one of these from Harbor Freight.  I leave mine on the dash when I leave the Jeep in Panama, and that way I am sure the electornics will not drain the battery regardless of how long I let it sit...



It's a nice bit of insurance, and only $20...

By the way, I am also thinking about adding a welder sometime...  But not for now.

Felipe

I had a solar panel similar, but not orange, like that that I used to keep my battery charged while in storage.  They work well for a trickle charge, especially when you are in an area with lots of sun.  You don't want to be in a hurry but then again you're probably SOL without it so you're not going to be in a hurry. 

[jfrabat]

I had a solar panel similar, but not orange, like that that I used to keep my battery charged while in storage.  They work well for a trickle charge, especially when you are in an area with lots of sun.  You don't want to be in a hurry but then again you're probably SOL without it so you're not going to be in a hurry. 

You can always go with a bigger one, but consider this the lifeboat; hopefully, you will never need it, and if you do, you'll be uncofortable for a long time, but it will get you home.

[stan98tj]

getting any closer to a decision Jeffy? seems as though you're leaning towards expedition set up. AS for the actual set up of the jeep...have u started to settle on any ideas?

[Jeffy]

getting any closer to a decision Jeffy? seems as though you're leaning towards expedition set up. AS for the actual set up of the jeep...have u started to settle on any ideas?

I really really like the skinny look of the narrow track.  I know for sure I want to do something like that.  I hate the look of wide flares as it makes the Jeep look squat and heavy.  The other problem is I love 35's.  They look great and perform well.  I'll have to see about 33x10.5R15's or 255.85.16's once I get my axles situated though.  I need to figure out the bolt pattern I want then the wheels.  Although I think I have an idea on that already.  Going expedition will save me money on axles for sure though since I don't need D60's. (was thinking J8 axles for a while D44/D60, too.)

So nothing is set in stone but I'm heavily leaning towards expedition.

[jagular7]

Jeffy, get yourself those Volvo portals you've always wanted and travel the world.


If you really need the lockout setup on the hubs, Reider Racing has a knuckle that you can use to adapt GM knuckle-out hardware to the late model Jeep front axle. You'll need the GM axle to get the hardware needed to complete the assembly with the Reider knuckle.

[Jeffy]

Jeffy, get yourself those Volvo portals you've always wanted and travel the world.


If you really need the lockout setup on the hubs, Reider Racing has a knuckle that you can use to adapt GM knuckle-out hardware to the late model Jeep front axle. You'll need the GM axle to get the hardware needed to complete the assembly with the Reider knuckle.

Problem with 303 axles is their rarity.  Dana 44's can be found through out NA.  Not to mention, I already have one so I only need 1 axle.  The other problem with the 303's is the gearing, for 33's they are way too low.  5.99's are the high speed and then there are 7:1's as the more common gears.  I'd also have to return my Jeep to SUA up front and redo a bunch of other suspension related things.  For a fraction of that I can build a SJ D44 and regrear my D44.  Then I'd have to either go through the trouble of mixing parts to get  5 lug or have the rear drilled for 6.  Or else find an Early Ford Bronco D44.

[chardrc]

Felipe

would that even work to charge with the keys off? i know on my jeep the cigarette lighter turns on and off with the key (its how i get my power for my electric fan switches). but i guess it would be easy enough to wire up direct cigarette lighter

[jfrabat]

would that even work to charge with the keys off? i know on my jeep the cigarette lighter turns on and off with the key (its how i get my power for my electric fan switches). but i guess it would be easy enough to wire up direct cigarette lighter

I have 3 outlets in mine: 2 are wired to the ignition, one is not, so that I can charge from there...

[stan98tj]

The other problem is I love 35's. 

Just a thought and i may be far off in my reasoning: as far as 35s are concerned for a 2.5l "expedition" jeep, would the 35s (with their weight and size) increase stress to the engine over long distances-perhaps lose a few points in the efficiency department?  I typically think of 35s as a tire you'd want for crawling-theres a lot of meat on that tire-but downsizing to a 32 or 33 wouldnt prevent you from really tackling obstacles you may encounter (esp since you've mentioned ya dont really want to push towards a rock crawling rig) So maybe a smaller (32-33") tire may be better in this case-less weight for the jeep to haul around, less strain on axles, engine, tranny, and enough girth to still crawl over and negotiate obstacles. just an opinion really, feel free to refute it.

[Jeffy]

Just a thought and i may be far off in my reasoning: as far as 35s are concerned for a 2.5l "expedition" jeep, would the 35s (with their weight and size) increase stress to the engine over long distances-perhaps lose a few points in the efficiency department?  I typically think of 35s as a tire you'd want for crawling-theres a lot of meat on that tire-but downsizing to a 32 or 33 wouldnt prevent you from really tackling obstacles you may encounter (esp since you've mentioned ya dont really want to push towards a rock crawling rig) So maybe a smaller (32-33") tire may be better in this case-less weight for the jeep to haul around, less strain on axles, engine, tranny, and enough girth to still crawl over and negotiate obstacles. just an opinion really, feel free to refute it.

Not really a concern when you consider upgrading axles as well.  If you're going to stick with stock axles then probably 31's would be better.  Since I'm already running a D44, it's not a big deal to run 35's.  The only consideration is gearing and for 35's you really want to be 5.38:1 or lower.  With 33's you can get by with 4.88's but you really want 5.13's (we're speaking of a 5-speed and not an auto).

The YJ Long that is pictured in the beginning has 31x10.5R15's on the stock 15x6" wheels and I think it looks pretty good.  I don't really want to go lower then 33's for a few reasons.  One being, I have a SOA up front and SUA rear netting me somewhere in the 4-5" range and a 1.25" body lift.  I like the suspension where it is and 33's will work fine with the extra room.

I'm not moving away from rockcrawling but rather not making a dedicated rock crawler.  35's and up are great for rockcrawling but aren't as great for other stuff.  Also my current gearing is 4.56:1 which is pretty good for 31's to 33's. (I installed them before there were 4.88's available).  I want lower gearing for better street performance though.  So I think either 5.13's or 5.38's would be good.  Currently the theoretical top speed is 122MPH with 5000RPM's being max.  I want to bring that down to around 90MPH.  I would need 5.38:1's for that.  5th gear at 3300RPM's would put me around 65MPH which is about right where I'd want it to be.  5.38's would also give me the ability to go back to 35's with a wheel and tire swap so if I wanted a more rock oriented rig, I could go back easily.

Play around with this chart and you're own setup;  http://jeeptech.com/javaAps/gta.html  It will give you a better idea of what gearing you really need and what it will feel like between gears.

[dwtaylorpdx]

So in just a sort of analytical mode....

If you look at the weight difference of 35's and the right wheels
vs the 33's and the correct wheels your talking almost 100 lbs on the rig
in some tire sizes.... For like 1" working clearance?

Then add the increased wind resistance of the lugs on the bigger tire,
plus the inherent inertia of a bigger diameter tire it matters, even if you re-gear.

Anecdotely;
I went from 12mpg  to 19mpg by switching from the 285x70/16 to 238x85/16.
The YJ drives 100% better on the road and I can't tell so far off road that
I lost anything, feels like it climbs better and I'm scared to test the real
mud traction of the tire.(Toyo Open Country MT's) At the doors in goo
i didn't even have it in 4x4 yet.

Dave

[sharpxmen]

Not really a concern when you consider upgrading axles as well.  If you're going to stick with stock axles then probably 31's would be better.  Since I'm already running a D44, it's not a big deal to run 35's.  The only consideration is gearing and for 35's you really want to be 5.38:1 or lower.  With 33's you can get by with 4.88's but you really want 5.13's (we're speaking of a 5-speed and not an auto).

The YJ Long that is pictured in the beginning has 31x10.5R15's on the stock 15x6" wheels and I think it looks pretty good.  I don't really want to go lower then 33's for a few reasons.  One being, I have a SOA up front and SUA rear netting me somewhere in the 4-5" range and a 1.25" body lift.  I like the suspension where it is and 33's will work fine with the extra room.

I'm not moving away from rockcrawling but rather not making a dedicated rock crawler.  35's and up are great for rockcrawling but aren't as great for other stuff.  Also my current gearing is 4.56:1 which is pretty good for 31's to 33's. (I installed them before there were 4.88's available).  I want lower gearing for better street performance though.  So I think either 5.13's or 5.38's would be good.  Currently the theoretical top speed is 122MPH with 5000RPM's being max.  I want to bring that down to around 90MPH.  I would need 5.38:1's for that.  5th gear at 3300RPM's would put me around 65MPH which is about right where I'd want it to be.  5.38's would also give me the ability to go back to 35's with a wheel and tire swap so if I wanted a more rock oriented rig, I could go back easily.

Play around with this chart and you're own setup;  http://jeeptech.com/javaAps/gta.html  It will give you a better idea of what gearing you really need and what it will feel like between gears.

the 5.99 ratio on those portals/volvos doesn't sound that bad - not sure how strong they are but if they are strong enough my preference would be those paired with some 40'' tires which would be close to stock final ratio - that will keep you from getting stuck during the expedition

[dwtaylorpdx]

The downside of Portal axles is Drag, those boxes soak up a fair amount
of power and the ones I've driven were kind of loud.... Kind of a whinny
rumble that just penetrated the rig...

Dave

[chrisfranklin]

So in just a sort of analytical mode....

If you look at the weight difference of 35's and the right wheels
vs the 33's and the correct wheels your talking almost 100 lbs on the rig
in some tire sizes.... For like 1" working clearance?

Then add the increased wind resistance of the lugs on the bigger tire,
plus the inherent inertia of a bigger diameter tire it matters, even if you re-gear.

Anecdotely;
I went from 12mpg  to 19mpg by switching from the 285x70/16 to 238x85/16.
The YJ drives 100% better on the road and I can't tell so far off road that
I lost anything, feels like it climbs better and I'm scared to test the real
mud traction of the tire.(Toyo Open Country MT's) At the doors in goo
i didn't even have it in 4x4 yet.

Dave

Hear, Hear!!  This has been my thinking on tire size for years.  However, it never got much "traction" with the 40" MT dudes on the Dump truck axles.  Maybe the recession is changing people's minds?

33-35s MTs are about the most I could ever see doing; and doing that right would, imho, run 5k-8k by the time you got through with axles, lockers, lift, sye, regear, tires/wheels.   Personally I think the 31 MTs on 4:10s I've got are driving ok right now.