Author Topic: Installing aftermarket air intake on 90 YJ  (Read 18476 times)

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vprsrul

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Re: Installing aftermarket air intake on 90 YJ
« Reply #60 on: November 09, 2009, 03:43:16 PM »
yeah genius, you really nailed it with that map and maf serve the same purpose (and i'm the one who has no idea)
find the map on your Jeep then tell me how the oil gets there and go lurk some more on those sites you've got your info from and see what they mean when they say it will damage the heated element on the maf sensor (you can also ask what's the difference between maf and map, you might find someone there to tell you if you didn't piss anybody off)
Jeeps run with oil in the airbox from the valve cover lot more than the oil on the filter - how many failed MAPs have you seen?

and read the whole thread before posting dyno results of your dad's 900hp truck.



wow,  you just have NO clue.  maybe you need to take a mechanic 101 class or get a 4 cycle engine for dummies book.   ps i could care less if i piss you off, when your wrong your wrong.  you have no basis for your arguement you just buy into the hype..... maybe you should try reading the thread rather than jumping the gun, just because I can actually post facts and you cant gives you no reason to try and be a dick. 

Offline dwtaylorpdx

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Re: Installing aftermarket air intake on 90 YJ
« Reply #61 on: November 09, 2009, 05:07:14 PM »
Wow normally this is a pretty civil board, you are taking this way to seriously,
You both have an opinion... They are not the same. And won't be. Get over it.

Dave

94 YJ - 2.5 Hesco Cam B&B Ported - AX5 Trans w/Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch - 4" Rough Country Lift W/Skyjacker Shocks - D44 Rear/ARB - D30/ARB - ARB Compressor - Warn M8000 in Custom Bumper - Reunell Rear Bumper - Metalcloak 6" Body Armor Kit - Tuffy Console - 265x85-16 Tires - 2M Radio

Offline sharpxmen

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Re: Installing aftermarket air intake on 90 YJ
« Reply #62 on: November 09, 2009, 05:33:32 PM »
wow,  you just have NO clue.  maybe you need to take a mechanic 101 class or get a 4 cycle engine for dummies book.   ps i could care less if i piss you off, when your wrong your wrong.  you have no basis for your arguement you just buy into the hype..... maybe you should try reading the thread rather than jumping the gun, just because I can actually post facts and you cant gives you no reason to try and be a dick. 
:roflol:
I won't bother answering that on the same tone, I'll look into the mechanics course though - thanks for the tip. Since you read that book do you mind telling me what page can i find the info about MAP, just so i don't have to read the whole thing. Thanks in advance.

you might want to read this again:
actually, i dont care much to here about your truck or how much hp it has. So no, most of what you are saying is pretty much off topic. I asked a simple question. Boy, no -1? haha
'95 YJ, NSG370 6spd / Hurst shifter, Dana 300 + 4:1 Doubler / tri-stick, Custom skid, Super D35 / Auburn LSD / 4.88, 35x12.5x15 BFG KM2, 64mm t/b, 1.7 RollerRockers, MkVIII e-fan, Dual Diaph Booster
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Offline chardrc

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Re: Installing aftermarket air intake on 90 YJ
« Reply #63 on: November 09, 2009, 05:41:06 PM »


 but look at the injector size high limit - it changed from 70.5 to 73 lb/hr - that is the difference in flow you need to compensate - on the top left of the page under operations drop down select flow rating and use 14.5 psi as old pressure, 70.5 as the starting flow, put in 15.6 as the new pressure and click calculate - the resulting flow will be 73.10lb/hr

good site.. but from my research last year the lb/hour for the tbi injector is about 48lb/hr... so something is off....

http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,3563.0.html
1990 YJ 4cly, ax5, 2.5 inch BDS lift, 31 MTr\'s,  Powertrax-lockers all around, track-bars removed, boomerang shackles, warn m8000 winch, electric fan. [sold but not forgotten]

2007 jk Rubicon 2dr

Offline sharpxmen

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Re: Installing aftermarket air intake on 90 YJ
« Reply #64 on: November 09, 2009, 06:29:56 PM »
good site.. but from my research last year the lb/hour for the tbi injector is about 48lb/hr... so something is off....

http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,3563.0.html

could be, i have no idea what the value is for TBI - is more on the exercise side to help understand the differences. 48 seems on the low end though unless the duty cycle for the TBI is over 80% but even so based on the top power of 117HP@5250 you still need 56lb/hr fuel delivery to achieve that power (that is not corrected for the injector duty cycle, is the total fuel to be delivered for 117HP with those values i posted). Also the 4 injectors for the MPI are 17.4, so if you time that by 4 (since tbi has only one) it's close to 70lb/hr - like i said, not sure what the actual values are for TBI but it seems to be working on MPI. I'm probably missing something on the TBI calculations - I'll do a bit of research later tonight see what i can find. Did you actually find the rating of the Jeep TBI injector or you were comparing the other injectors from larger engines - is it possible that some of those are dual barrel and they have 2 injectors? - again, i could be missing something on the TBI so this could be off - let me know where you got the info about the TBI injector.

'95 YJ, NSG370 6spd / Hurst shifter, Dana 300 + 4:1 Doubler / tri-stick, Custom skid, Super D35 / Auburn LSD / 4.88, 35x12.5x15 BFG KM2, 64mm t/b, 1.7 RollerRockers, MkVIII e-fan, Dual Diaph Booster
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vprsrul

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Re: Installing aftermarket air intake on 90 YJ
« Reply #65 on: November 09, 2009, 06:37:37 PM »
:roflol:
I won't bother answering that on the same tone, I'll look into the mechanics course though - thanks for the tip. Since you read that book do you mind telling me what page can i find the info about MAP, just so i don't have to read the whole thing. Thanks in advance.

you might want to read this again:
Ill give you that one, ya got me.... and yes I did miss that post... ha... anyhow im not really sure why this turned into a pissing contest considering I was agreeing with most of your ideas on the intake.... guess the main reason I get so worked up over the air filter thing is that I have had more than my share of problems with the k&n and similar types... just wanted to warn you more than anything and hopefully save you and others the headache.

Offline sharpxmen

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Re: Installing aftermarket air intake on 90 YJ
« Reply #66 on: November 09, 2009, 06:45:14 PM »
Ill give you that one, ya got me.... and yes I did miss that post... ha... anyhow im not really sure why this turned into a pissing contest considering I was agreeing with most of your ideas on the intake.... guess the main reason I get so worked up over the air filter thing is that I have had more than my share of problems with the k&n and similar types... just wanted to warn you more than anything and hopefully save you and others the headache.
ok, peace then - no point in arguing - we can agree to disagree.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 06:46:15 PM by sharpxmen »
'95 YJ, NSG370 6spd / Hurst shifter, Dana 300 + 4:1 Doubler / tri-stick, Custom skid, Super D35 / Auburn LSD / 4.88, 35x12.5x15 BFG KM2, 64mm t/b, 1.7 RollerRockers, MkVIII e-fan, Dual Diaph Booster
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vprsrul

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Re: Installing aftermarket air intake on 90 YJ
« Reply #67 on: November 09, 2009, 07:23:01 PM »
ok, peace then - no point in arguing - we can agree to disagree.
sounds good.   :beers:

Offline stan98tj

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Re: Installing aftermarket air intake on 90 YJ
« Reply #68 on: November 09, 2009, 08:31:39 PM »
ive read through this thread-not word for word-but thoroughly enough. i did check quadratec's site to see if any cold air intakes were available...but they only are for 91 and later. im not sure what the difference was in 89-90. if he fabs his own "cold air intake" this should, in theory allow him to put on any cone filter at the end of it...not just K&N correct? as long as he knew the size of the opening correct?
 lastly id like to touch on something that ive seen in multiple threads here-the issue of people pulling out their cold air intakes (be it K&N or other brands) to swap with the stock box when wheeling for fear of dirt/dust pulling past the filter: i run the AEM unit and ive gotten that filter pretty well covered (not caked mind you) in dirt-i pulled it off to clean it and when it was off i took a moist napkin and ran it inside the tube to see if it would show dirt....came up clean. and has every time ive cleaned it. this leads me to think that perhaps the overall amount of dirt/dust it would take to pull through these modern day filters would have to be massive-something to perhaps consider if you're wheeling through the dunes..but maybe not for any other terrain.
98 TJ 35"Maxxis Trep.Old Man Emu 2.5""+1"BL,IronMan Fab control arms,4.56gears,Ford 8.8+ARB,Currie/IronMan steering, WARN VR10,HP D30 sleeved+ RCV,Body Armor Rock Rails WISHLIST:TDi.Girlfriend hates it :) If you can read this don't flip me over i dont have any $$ left to fix it

Offline chardrc

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Re: Installing aftermarket air intake on 90 YJ
« Reply #69 on: November 09, 2009, 08:38:54 PM »
- is it possible that some of those are dual barrel and they have 2 injectors? - again, i could be missing something on the TBI so this could be off - let me know where you got the info about the TBI injector.


4.3l v and bigger used 2 injectors for tbi ( for example the 5.0l v8 used 2 50#/hr injectors (rated at 20psi which is higher than stock (flow machine test)).. i got the rating for the jeep injector from a seller of the injector (was rated at 84cc in 15 seconds at 20psi (see post 6  of linked thread))... i don't have the time now to re-straighten out my old research out but the thread i linked to has most of the info i found.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 08:42:01 PM by chardrc »
1990 YJ 4cly, ax5, 2.5 inch BDS lift, 31 MTr\'s,  Powertrax-lockers all around, track-bars removed, boomerang shackles, warn m8000 winch, electric fan. [sold but not forgotten]

2007 jk Rubicon 2dr

Offline sharpxmen

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Re: Installing aftermarket air intake on 90 YJ
« Reply #70 on: November 09, 2009, 09:16:49 PM »
ive read through this thread-not word for word-but thoroughly enough. i did check quadratec's site to see if any cold air intakes were available...but they only are for 91 and later. im not sure what the difference was in 89-90. if he fabs his own "cold air intake" this should, in theory allow him to put on any cone filter at the end of it...not just K&N correct? as long as he knew the size of the opening correct?
 lastly id like to touch on something that ive seen in multiple threads here-the issue of people pulling out their cold air intakes (be it K&N or other brands) to swap with the stock box when wheeling for fear of dirt/dust pulling past the filter: i run the AEM unit and ive gotten that filter pretty well covered (not caked mind you) in dirt-i pulled it off to clean it and when it was off i took a moist napkin and ran it inside the tube to see if it would show dirt....came up clean. and has every time ive cleaned it. this leads me to think that perhaps the overall amount of dirt/dust it would take to pull through these modern day filters would have to be massive-something to perhaps consider if you're wheeling through the dunes..but maybe not for any other terrain.
the TBI t/b is different and i believe thicker (larger diam where the adapter on top goes) and also if i remember correctly it has 3 screws that connect the elbow to the t/b (or something similar, but the elbow can be reused i would think).
you are correct about installing a cone filter, although in that case the intake air temperature will be higher since has passed the thru the rad, so for example if outside air is 70F and the one that passed thru the rad (at engine operating temp) is 100F you can potentially lose about 5HP so unless the cone is enclosed is better to have a high flow filter in the stock airbox and make sure to get cold air from in front of the rad. The cone filter will flow better however, so best case scenario would be an enclosed (or at least shielded) cone filter.
'95 YJ, NSG370 6spd / Hurst shifter, Dana 300 + 4:1 Doubler / tri-stick, Custom skid, Super D35 / Auburn LSD / 4.88, 35x12.5x15 BFG KM2, 64mm t/b, 1.7 RollerRockers, MkVIII e-fan, Dual Diaph Booster
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Offline sharpxmen

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Re: Installing aftermarket air intake on 90 YJ
« Reply #71 on: November 09, 2009, 09:31:53 PM »
4.3l v and bigger used 2 injectors for tbi ( for example the 5.0l v8 used 2 50#/hr injectors (rated at 20psi which is higher than stock (flow machine test)).. i got the rating for the jeep injector from a seller of the injector (was rated at 84cc in 15 seconds at 20psi (see post 6  of linked thread))... i don't have the time now to re-straighten out my old research out but the thread i linked to has most of the info i found.

yeah, dunno what the deal is with tbi - tried to get the required flow from here as well http://www.witchhunter.com/injectorcalc1.php4 (there are other ones out there, pretty much the same thing) - if you use 117HP, 0.48BSFC,  1 injector and 80% duty cycle will come up as 70.2 required static injector flow - make the duty cycle 100% and that gives the uncorrected required fuel for that power at 56.16lb/hr and that is  how much fuel needs to be delivered for the air flow at max power. the 84cc/15sec=336cc/min=32lb/hr - it's about half of what's required, that's why i went on a guess maybe it is for a dual barrel TBI. Dunno what the deal is, like i said i could be missing something on the TBI injector rating (maybe they are rated differently) but as far as fuel delivery goes that's how much it needs (56lb/hr) to make 117HP (give or take a bit as the BSFC of 0.48 is a guess but should be pretty close).
'95 YJ, NSG370 6spd / Hurst shifter, Dana 300 + 4:1 Doubler / tri-stick, Custom skid, Super D35 / Auburn LSD / 4.88, 35x12.5x15 BFG KM2, 64mm t/b, 1.7 RollerRockers, MkVIII e-fan, Dual Diaph Booster
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Offline chardrc

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Re: Installing aftermarket air intake on 90 YJ
« Reply #72 on: November 10, 2009, 06:57:34 AM »
i was thinking this morning.. and with mpfi you have 1 injector for each cylinder so 19 *4= 76 which is what that program is wanting out of the 1 injector tbi... but realistically not all the cylinders need fuel at the same time so need less at one time...
1990 YJ 4cly, ax5, 2.5 inch BDS lift, 31 MTr\'s,  Powertrax-lockers all around, track-bars removed, boomerang shackles, warn m8000 winch, electric fan. [sold but not forgotten]

2007 jk Rubicon 2dr

Offline sharpxmen

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Re: Installing aftermarket air intake on 90 YJ
« Reply #73 on: November 10, 2009, 08:12:51 AM »
i was thinking this morning.. and with mpfi you have 1 injector for each cylinder so 19 *4= 76 which is what that program is wanting out of the 1 injector tbi... but realistically not all the cylinders need fuel at the same time so need less at one time...

that's what i was trying to figure out and tried to get my head around it but the actual total fuel needed is in fact related to the CFM air flow, can be 1 cyl or 8 cyl, you get the same amount of airflow (roughly) at a certain rpm for the same displacement to which you add the amount of required fuel - just no way to make the power otherwise. Same for the number of injectors, seems to be working for 4, 6 or 8 injectors so i am assuming is the same deal if you have 1 injector - needs to deliver a certain amount of fuel. the only variable there is duty cycle, but the minimum is still 56lb/hr (at 100% which never happens). I could be missing something fundamental but otherwise those numbers seem to be in sync. The only thing that i don't know is if the factory rating is somehow different. I looked around and didn't find anything on the 2.5L TBI injector.
'95 YJ, NSG370 6spd / Hurst shifter, Dana 300 + 4:1 Doubler / tri-stick, Custom skid, Super D35 / Auburn LSD / 4.88, 35x12.5x15 BFG KM2, 64mm t/b, 1.7 RollerRockers, MkVIII e-fan, Dual Diaph Booster
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vprsrul

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Re: Installing aftermarket air intake on 90 YJ
« Reply #74 on: November 10, 2009, 08:34:17 AM »
ive read through this thread-not word for word-but thoroughly enough. i did check quadratec's site to see if any cold air intakes were available...but they only are for 91 and later. im not sure what the difference was in 89-90. if he fabs his own "cold air intake" this should, in theory allow him to put on any cone filter at the end of it...not just K&N correct? as long as he knew the size of the opening correct?
 lastly id like to touch on something that ive seen in multiple threads here-the issue of people pulling out their cold air intakes (be it K&N or other brands) to swap with the stock box when wheeling for fear of dirt/dust pulling past the filter: i run the AEM unit and ive gotten that filter pretty well covered (not caked mind you) in dirt-i pulled it off to clean it and when it was off i took a moist napkin and ran it inside the tube to see if it would show dirt....came up clean. and has every time ive cleaned it. this leads me to think that perhaps the overall amount of dirt/dust it would take to pull through these modern day filters would have to be massive-something to perhaps consider if you're wheeling through the dunes..but maybe not for any other terrain.
Yes you can fab your own intake,  I personally have used various items such as alum piping to pvc and anything else we could come up with.  I also have made my own airbox for several vehicles that was usually twice the size as stock and allowed me to use the largest paper element available that would fit into the engine bay airbox included.  no experience with aem filters but glad to here it actually filters well.