Topic: Manual Hubs

[chrisfranklin]

Jeffy's "If not a Jeep then what?" post had me briefly looking at used td H1s just for kicks.  One of the things I saw sold for H1s for about 3 grand is a 2WD/4WD selectable transfer case.  You apparently put that in there in place of the AWD transfer case http://www.teakatoys.com/H1_ALL_YEARS_SELECTABLE_TRANSFER_CASE_p/pm-h1-per-400.htm so you are not powering the front axle and this ends up saving you gas and gaining you power.

Still thinking about front axles, I drifted over to ideas about how much the 4banger might benefit with a swap to manual hubs by Warn or Milemarker. Obviously you're not talking swapping out an AWD transfer case or anything like that with the 4banger, but manual hubs would allow the wheels on a 4banger to spin freely so they weren't constantly spinning the front axles shafts on the highway.  

I've personally seen pretty great mileage/power gains with manual hubs on a Ford truck.  So, I wanted to check and see if any of you guys are using manual hubs on your 4banger.  Here's a writeup:  http://jeep.off-road.com/jeep/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=261301

[chrisfranklin]

No manual hub users?  I say manual hubs are the magic bullet to fix all your power needs for the 4banger  

[neale_rs]

I used to have some on my GPW but the kit for the YJ is very expensive.  Probably not worth doing.  Iīve also heard that the hubs tend to break more easily than the stock YJ setup.

[jfrabat]

I  looked  into  this  when  I  did  the  alloy  axles  and  lost  the  vacuum  disconnect,  but  founnd  it  too  expensive,  and  also  read  about  them  being  fragile....

[sharpxmen]

I  looked  into  this  when  I  did  the  alloy  axles  and  lost  the  vacuum  disconnect,  but  founnd  it  too  expensive,  and  also  read  about  them  being  fragile....

not to mention the $$$

[chrisfranklin]

What are we talking for a YJ, about $700-800 for the kit? Hey, it could be the missing link in the 4banger power equation     

[Bounty Hunter]

Not needed if you are still using the disconnect in the front axle.  Not to mention they use small BroncoII sized parts and are weaker than standard 1/2t hubs found on a d44.

If you want to make it worthwhile, swap in a d44 front axle so you get decent lockouts, serviceable bearings, etc....

[dwtaylorpdx]

I have the Warn kit and I have 140K miles on it. I'm NOT nice to it, I'm running ARB's too.

While the hub looks like the bronco unit it is not.
I know the guys who designed it and I know the Warn family.

There is not a dana 30 axle made that they were not able to break in the hub dyno at the factory.

The U-joint or the long part of the axle always broke first, not to say you can't break them but its tough.

I have been told that occasionally the U-joint breaks and fouls the drive-line and then the hub breaks, but the stock axle does that too.

I gained a mile or so to the gallon when on the freeway, maybe more when I drive faster and start reaching the aero wall..
It also reduces noise and vibration at freeway speed.

The biggest benefit is I have never had to rebuild my transfer case with 220K on my jeep.
By stopping the front axle rotation you stop the rotation of the chain and guts of the transfer case.

But if you notice on newer models the TJ's without the disconnect get about the same mileage as YJ's with one. for what that's worth. :)

Well there''s my 47cents worth...

Dave

[chrisfranklin]

I have the Warn kit and I have 140K miles on it. I'm NOT nice to it, I'm running ARB's too.

While the hub looks like the bronco unit it is not.
I know the guys who designed it and I know the Warn family.

There is not a dana 30 axle made that they were not able to break in the hub dyno at the factory.

The U-joint or the long part of the axle always broke first, not to say you can't break them but its tough.

I have been told that occasionally the U-joint breaks and fouls the drive-line and then the hub breaks, but the stock axle does that too.

I gained a mile or so to the gallon when on the freeway, maybe more when I drive faster and start reaching the aero wall..
It also reduces noise and vibration at freeway speed.

The biggest benefit is I have never had to rebuild my transfer case with 220K on my jeep.
By stopping the front axle rotation you stop the rotation of the chain and guts of the transfer case.

But if you notice on newer models the TJ's without the disconnect get about the same mileage as YJ's with one. for what that's worth. :)

Well there''s my 47cents worth...

Dave

That's good to know Dave.  Thanks

[Bounty Hunter]

The biggest benefit is I have never had to rebuild my transfer case with 220K on my jeep.
By stopping the front axle rotation you stop the rotation of the chain and guts of the transfer case.

You will still have the same viscous rotation inside the transfer case that you will have with the stock vacuum disconnect system.  IMO the hub kit saves you little to nothing for the money spent, money best spent elsewhere.

[dwtaylorpdx]

The front drive-line quits moving when the hubs are unlocked.
There is still stuff moving in there but its not the front half at least.

And as I noted there is a big difference between locked and unlocked
in the amount of front end noise. I figure noise is energy so less noise is good.

Simple but I like it! :)

Dave

[chrisfranklin]

The front drive-line quits moving when the hubs are unlocked.
There is still stuff moving in there but its not the front half at least.

And as I noted there is a big difference between locked and unlocked
in the amount of front end noise. I figure noise is energy so less noise is good.

Simple but I like it! :)

Dave

That's actually pretty interesting.  So the front drive shaft, axle shafts and front diff are idle when the manual hubs are unlocked (am I understanding that right?)

[aw12345]

Yup all that turns is the wheels, which is not always a good thing. Tends to destroy the slip yoke on the driveshaft

[chrisfranklin]

Yup all that turns is the wheels, which is not always a good thing. Tends to destroy the slip yoke on the driveshaft

That's interesting Art.  So the slip yoke is stationary and ends up getting bent when the suspension compresses, something like that?

[jagular7]

Not many todays 4wd vehicles come with manual lockouts any more. Why? With today's design capabilities and manufacturing to match and the marketing for less effort on the owner, the vehicles are designed for less maintenance and more replacement repairs. If you want the effects of not having the front ds spin, disconnect it from the front axle, tape up the joint caps, and secure it to the frame. I highly doubt that you need 4wd more than (maybe) 2 weekends a month and if that. Rest of the time, you will be in 2wd. It only takes a 5/16 wrench to get the yoke loops loose to pull the joint. If you think you need 4wd in the snow, how are the little fwd imports getting around?
Yah, the front tires will still spin the r&p.

If you really want to have manual hubs, Reider Racing (and their will probably be some followers) offers to the Jeep Wrangler D30 an option of swapping in knuckles to use GM outer hardware. You will need to change wheels as the hub is bigger and the lug configuration is different as well (depending which configuration you go with 5on5.5, 6on5.5, etc. ). But in effect, it is a D30. It still has other design flaws for large tires.
But for the bolt-on crowd, there are options out there for you to spend your money. Custom axles are also available for bolt in configurations. The field spreads from a simple replacement hub to a full swap out front axle.