Topic: Winch throwdown/opinions

[stan98tj]

OK, my gf is offering me a winch for my upcoming birthday-the price cap being $1000.
I've done some research and I have a few that I've come across that I'd like to get opinions about to help me make my decision.
What i want: 9500lb or above pull strength, synthetic line (i would prefer, but it doesnt have to be) and id like to keep the weight of the winch down.
My first choice: Rough Country RS12000S: synthetic line, 12000lb pull, 70lb winch, these are rebadged milemarkers. comes to $549
http://www.roughcountry.com/winches/electric-winch_rs12000s.html

My second choice: Warn VR10000. $579. steel cable, 10,000lb pull, these winches have different motors and electronics from the M series warns. they are cheaper than the m-series. they weigh 89lbs. http://www.quadratec.com/products/92136_0101_07.htm

My third choice: Superwinch EPi9.0S- at $874 it's the most expensive i've listed. it is a 9,000lb winch (so a bit shy of what i wanted) but it comes with synthetic line. it also sports a submersible solenoid. http://www.quadratec.com/products/92140_009_07.htm

PLease dont turn this thread into a Warn is better than everything thread as every other forum has (esp when ppl inquire about the rough country winch) i would like honest opinions. Also if you know of any good winch that fits the criteria that i listed above please let me know. Of course quality is something im concerned with. I wanted the RC winch bec of the synthetic rope and the 12000lb power. im unsure of the quality though.

[Jeffy]

Personally, I'd look for a used Warn for well under $1000.  8274's can be had for around $350-500 in good working shape.

I'm not sold on contactors over solenoids.  Solenoids are cheap and you can find replacements just about anywhere.  Contactor relays are smaller and aren't as robust.  The motors are probably similar to the old ones they used to use before everything went 4.3HP.  Warn has evens started using contactors on their new M8000 as well as the XD9000 to help keep cost down.  I have also noticed they switched from the nice brake handle to a dial like on the old Tabors.  Again, I'm sure it's to cut cost.  From what Warn say's they assemble most of their winches in the US.  Parts are sourced globally but really what isn't anymore.  Still they have a higher standard of QC.  The VR is their value line of winches.

Rough Country is or was a suspension company.  Now they have broadened their wares.  They are competing with Smittybilt which is now owned by Transamerican Auto parts.  The niche they are filling is the gap Steel Horse once held.  These winches are made in China.  There are factories that make them and a company like Smittybily, Milemarker or Rough Country selects what they want and they sell them under their own name.  QC is usually done with batch samples and not with every winch.

Superwinch is more popular in the UK then they are in the US.  They have always been quiet.  I've bever heard of any complaining about their winches.  They never got into the high-speed game and continued to make their winches like how Ramsey adn Warn did in the 80's.  I always liked their Mega winches but they cost more.

I would be hesitant buying a value winch with a synthetic rope.  Typically synthetic ropes are more expensive then steel cables so you have to wonder where they're cutting costs from.  Ropes are nice but really the majority of people are still using steel cables.  Unless you're using it a lot, it's just going to rot on the spool.

Here's what I'd choose from.  These are all Shipped prices.

• Warn M8000 - $539 - http://www.amazon.com/WARN-26502-M8000-8000-lb-Winch/dp/B000182DYM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1304475973&sr=8-1
• Tabor 9000 - $582.77 - http://www.amazon.com/WARN-900560-Tabor-9000-lb-Winch/dp/B000OV6L2Q/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1304475973&sr=8-12
• Superwinch EPi9 - $614.99 - http://www.amazon.com/Superwinch-09034-EPi9-0-Master-Winch/dp/B00023S354/ref=sr_1_40?ie=UTF8&qid=1304476121&sr=8-40
• Warn XD9000 - $886.95 - http://www.amazon.com/WARN-28500-XD9000-9000-lb-Winch/dp/B0002Z9SU6/ref=sr_1_39?ie=UTF8&qid=1304476121&sr=8-39

[neale_rs]

With a price limit of $1000 I'd go with the Warn XD9000, it is a good solid winch. 

Also, putting weight over the front clearly improved the wheeling capability of my YJ, allowing it to climb better. I think more weight on the front can be a good thing.

[stan98tj]

I would be hesitant buying a value winch with a synthetic rope.  Typically synthetic ropes are more expensive then steel cables so you have to wonder where they're cutting costs from.  Ropes are nice but really the majority of people are still using steel cables.  Unless you're using it a lot, it's just going to rot on the spool.

Here's what I'd choose from.  These are all Shipped prices.

• Warn M8000 - $539 - http://www.amazon.com/WARN-26502-M8000-8000-lb-Winch/dp/B000182DYM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1304475973&sr=8-1
• Tabor 9000 - $582.77 - http://www.amazon.com/WARN-900560-Tabor-9000-lb-Winch/dp/B000OV6L2Q/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1304475973&sr=8-12
• Superwinch EPi9 - $614.99 - http://www.amazon.com/Superwinch-09034-EPi9-0-Master-Winch/dp/B00023S354/ref=sr_1_40?ie=UTF8&qid=1304476121&sr=8-40
• Warn XD9000 - $886.95 - http://www.amazon.com/WARN-28500-XD9000-9000-lb-Winch/dp/B0002Z9SU6/ref=sr_1_39?ie=UTF8&qid=1304476121&sr=8-39

I didnt think about the synth line rotting. I figured they would be coated to keep them from doing so. we run synth lines on pretty much every ship ive worked on and they are almost always wet, but we do use them more frequently than i would use the winch. In that respect (infrequent use) would a steel line last a long time and not become deformed on the drum? Also, i have my mind set on 9500lb and above pulling power, bec you never know who u are wheeling with and a powerful winch would have an easier time pulling you out and therefor not strain the motor as much. Also, when you add mud, tires, and an angle the forces increase quickly.

[stan98tj]

 The VR is their value line of winches.

Would that make it less reliable? cheap? Im interested because it is a WARN and has a 10k pulling capacity. But i dont want crap. On that note ive begun looking at smittybuilt. I read a JP article where they did a budget winch shootout and the smitty came out close to the top, i also have a friend who runs one and likes it (though admits he prob should have saved for better).

[brokenwrist21]

its not so much that the line rots. as the uv rays deteroiate it, putting a cover on the winch will help keep it protected.

[Jeffy]

I didnt think about the synth line rotting. I figured they would be coated to keep them from doing so. we run synth lines on pretty much every ship ive worked on and they are almost always wet, but we do use them more frequently than i would use the winch. In that respect (infrequent use) would a steel line last a long time and not become deformed on the drum? Also, i have my mind set on 9500lb and above pulling power, bec you never know who u are wheeling with and a powerful winch would have an easier time pulling you out and therefor not strain the motor as much. Also, when you add mud, tires, and an angle the forces increase quickly.

Synthetic ropes have some UV protectant but that doesn't last forever.  Also Synthetic ropes don't like heat which typically happens when you run your winch.  The other things to consider have to do with abrasion.  If you're winching over rocks you have to make sure you protect the line.  If you're going to neglect the winch then go with a cable.  Once it's properly wrapped, you don't really have to do much with them and you'll be saving yourself a couple hundred which you can use to get some winch accessories.

The general rule of thumb for a winch is to go 1.5x the weight of the vehicle.  So for a Jeep, that's 3000lbs.  It would require a 8000lbs winch.  Keep in mind that this is the max at the bottom spool and is reduced with each additional layer of wrap.  So if you have 150' of line you'll need to use all of it.  If you can't use all of it you can always use a pulley.  This can almost double the winch capacity.  Really though 90% of the time you're not going to be using the full strength of the winch.  Just a small tug is usually enough for you to get unstuck.

You'll also be paying a premium for a quality 9500 winch.  The 9500's are typically sold to those who need the faster draw speeds but don't want the additional weight of a 10,000 winch.  Most 10,000 winches are really for utility use and not recreation.  They are big and heavy.  8000-9000lbs is pretty standard for a Jeep.  Back in the day, it was 6000-8000lbs but then Jeeps were lighter.

[Jeffy]

Would that make it less reliable? cheap? Im interested because it is a WARN and has a 10k pulling capacity. But i dont want crap. On that note ive begun looking at smittybuilt. I read a JP article where they did a budget winch shootout and the smitty came out close to the top, i also have a friend who runs one and likes it (though admits he prob should have saved for better).

Like I said before, it really comes down to QC.  Although with Warn's use VR line up, I'd be more inclined to get one of those then a 100% Chinese made winch with little to no QC.  But if your budget is $1000, you can buy a quality winch that will last a lifetime and still have pocket change.  I'm move to Warn's M or XD series as they are well within your budget.  The Tabor line was their value line and did cut costs but it was also still a very good winch.  More like an old Warn from the early 90's, before everyone went high-speed low drag.  Want brought the Tabor line into the US market because they were getting undercut by all of the Chinese made winches.  It's a big market as there is now really no reason to be without a winch anymore.  Although I'm sure many buy a winch now because it's cool rather then for any practical reason.  Warn's aren't indestructible but they are quality winches.  Guy's who use their winches a lot don't skimp otherwise, you'd see more brands of winches on work trucks and competition buggies.

Consider this; when you look on Cragslist you'll probably see a few 20-30 years old Warn's that still work 100%.

[stan98tj]

the reason im firm on at LEAST 9500lbs is bec although i understand that an 8000lb winch is more than capable of pulling me out i've been in a situation where a 10000lb winch had trouble pulling me and overheated. Also, i don't only offroad with ppl who use Jeeps, so id like to be able to pull out friends as well.
I dont want to buy a used winch. Warn is running an 80 dollar rebate, so that means i can afford an XD9000..however, that is 500lbs less capacity than my minimum and costs 500 dollars more than the VR. My question would be why wouldnt i want a VR? I asked a quadratec rep to find out for me how well sealed the electronics are on the VR line and if it has a auto thermo cutoff switch. Im waiting on a response.

I also noticed, no one here is telling me to spend any dime on that Rough Country winch, so i guess im not leaning towards that anymore.

[Jeffy]

the reason im firm on at LEAST 9500lbs is bec although i understand that an 8000lb winch is more than capable of pulling me out i've been in a situation where a 10000lb winch had trouble pulling me and overheated. Also, i don't only offroad with ppl who use Jeeps, so id like to be able to pull out friends as well.
I dont want to buy a used winch. Warn is running an 80 dollar rebate, so that means i can afford an XD9000..however, that is 500lbs less capacity than my minimum and costs 500 dollars more than the VR. My question would be why wouldnt i want a VR? I asked a quadratec rep to find out for me how well sealed the electronics are on the VR line and if it has a auto thermo cutoff switch. Im waiting on a response.

I also noticed, no one here is telling me to spend any dime on that Rough Country winch, so i guess im not leaning towards that anymore.

I don't think water is going to be a big issue.  You can run an old warn with the solenoids submerged and still have the winch run.  Solenoids are pretty low tech and because of that are more robust.  The VR and some of the new M and I think even the XD use Contactor Relays which is what all of the no-name Chinese winches use.  Instead of filling the box with solenoids they use a small and sometimes undersized relay.  The problem with these is that there is only one relay under the oversized cover.  If a solenoid goes bad you can always rewire the solenoids to get you going.  Instead of asking Qtech, why don't you talk to Warn.  They have one of the best Customer Service in the industry.

If you're stalling a 10,000lbs winch then you're really stuck and I doubt 500lbs or even 1000lbs is going to make that much if a difference.  You're more then likely looking at a multi-winch recovery or something that weighs in at 1-2T and diesel powered.  You have to also consider the mounts and the frame as you can seriously tweak them if you don't winch properly.

As for used, I'd be looking for a 8274.  It's one winch, I wouldn't not be afraid of being old.

[stan98tj]

i think im gonna call warn as jeffy says.
the irony in all this is that qtech reccomends warn, good searches result in ppl advising warn...but i have a couple buddies with smittybuilts who do just fine. JP mag even liked it when they tested it. I still want the quality though.

[stan98tj]

after a chat with Warn, i think i'm leaning towards the VR line. I was thinking of getting the XD9000, with the 80 dollar rebate that would bring me under $1000. After my talk with warn they pretty much told me that was a serious duty winch almost at the competition level. overkill for what i need. In the 4 yrs ive owned the jeep, ive been winched twice..every other time ive gotten out with tow straps. Friends who have gone with me have not been so lucky and have had to even use a tow truck to get out. I go wheeling about once a month (maybe more now that i will have the winch) and i haven't been stuck often. I need something that will be reliable in the occasional use. THe XD boasts fast line speed and other bells and whistles that i dont really need..and its not a 10k winch. As long as this VR winch is better than a Smittybuilt i think it will be a safe bet. At least thats where im leaning.

[neale_rs]

It's a good choice. You won't go wrong with a Warn.

I just checked the Warn page and it seems the VR line uses solenoids but the new M8000 and XD9000 now use contactors (XD9000i is still using solenoids).

[VA_YJ]

There is no doubt that Warn is the best.  I choose to get a 9000 lb. Superwinch epi 9.0 with a 125 ft wire rope, because I felt like it was a better value.  $605 with free shipping from 4x4groupbuy.

http://www.4x4groupbuy.com/store/superwinch-epi90-12vdc-9000lbs-recovery-winch-p-5368.html

Read about this torture test from Moab Jeeper:

http://www.moabjeeper.com/articles/general/listing.cfm?articleID=353

[stan98tj]

There is no doubt that Warn is the best.  I choose to get a 9000 lb. Superwinch epi 9.0 with a 125 ft wire rope, because I felt like it was a better value.  $605 with free shipping from 4x4groupbuy.

http://www.4x4groupbuy.com/store/superwinch-epi90-12vdc-9000lbs-recovery-winch-p-5368.html

Read about this torture test from Moab Jeeper:

http://www.moabjeeper.com/articles/general/listing.cfm?articleID=353

superwinch has a great reputation. they ran them on most (if not all) the land rovers during the Camel Trophy series...and they def got abused.