Author Topic: Brakes (suggestions?)  (Read 7809 times)

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Offline jfrabat

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Brakes (suggestions?)
« on: September 17, 2007, 04:04:51 PM »
First of all, I apologize for being a pain in the (*&% in these past few days, posting SOOOOO many questions, but I managed to get some doe for the Jeep budget, and I want to get working as good as I can...

So, I decided to spend some money on brakes, mainly beause I almost got into a car accident on the highway last week when the car in front of me stopped suddenly, and I could not get to stop fast even though I slammed on the brakes.  The thing is that if I slam my brakes down, the tires are not stopped completely; they just slow down in a non efficient way.  Now I know that lockeing the tires is a no-no (no control), but it just seems to me that if I slam on the brakes, that's what's suppossed to happen (considering my '94 YJ does not have ABS).  So for my tastes, the rig takes too long to stop in case of an emergency.

So, I was going to have the brakes looked at, but I was wondering if there are any suggestions...  Honestly speaking, I am currently planning on taking the mighty YJ to the nearest place (I think it's tire kingdom) and getting the work done for me, as I have never done a break job, but what do you guys think?  Should I do this job myself?  Is it too difficult?  And which break pads would you recommend?  I may even take advantage that I am taking the brakes off and install new brake lines to replace those rubber hoses that I got on the front with some stronger lines...  Maybe these?  http://www.quadratec.com/products/12706_32X_PG.htm

What about brake pads?  Any recommended brands?

And what do I need to do for the rear brakes? 

Felipe

'94 YJ 2.5L with 4" RE lift, Superwinch EPi9.0, FoMoCo e-Fan, SD30 and SD35 w/ARB-5.13, 165A alt., 33" BFG KM2 on 15" AR wheels, Sony sound system, Pavement Ends Hardtop, Hydroboost

Offline Jeffy

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Re: Brakes (suggestions?)
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2007, 07:48:23 PM »
Doing your own brake maintenance is fairly easy.  I'd say it's easier then changing the oil.

I'd highly recommend checking your brake pads and shoes.  The fronts are east to see how much material is that and how close they are to the disc.  The rears will require taking the wheel off.  Then make sure the E-brake is off.  Then you take the drum off.  Well actually you can feel how much play there is between the shoes and the drum.  Once the drum is off you can inspect the shoes.  More then likely the adjusters are fouled up and not working properly.  When you back up hard adn break, it should adjust the shoes.  If this hasn't been done in a long time, if ever then you'll need to manually adjust them so they are close to where the shoes rub against the drums.

Depending on how many miles you have on your brakes, you might get away with just adjusting them.  The next step would be replacing the shoes.  Going to some performance brake pads can make a huge difference.  Hawk are popular.  Bewarned that better brakes usually means they will wear out faster then harder brakes.

If you check the run out on the drums and discs and they are either warped or just warn out, it would probably be better to buy new discs or drums then to have them turned.  It really depends on what they look like though.

There are several other ways to increase braking.  Larger master cylinder is a common one.  Either go with a large single or a dual diaphram.  Another option is to switch over to ZJ 2 pot front brakes.  Then there are slotted and drilled front discs but I'd put these lower on the priority list.
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Re: Brakes (suggestions?)
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2007, 07:57:08 PM »
A double diaphragm master brake booster out of a 4L cherokee would be the best bang for the buck. The 2.5 use a single diaphragm.

Offline aw12345

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Re: Brakes (suggestions?)
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2007, 09:15:36 PM »
Check your brakes and then use the above suggestion for a brake booster the bigger the tire the longer the stopping distance. Going to 31" tires from stock causes a noticeable decrease in brake performance
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Offline jfrabat

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Re: Brakes (suggestions?)
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2007, 07:16:17 AM »
Doing your own brake maintenance is fairly easy.  I'd say it's easier then changing the oil.

I think I'll give it a shot myself then!  I have the Chilton, Haynes, and Jeep Service Manuals, so I guess if it is not a complicated procedure, I'll take a shot at it myself.

I'd highly recommend checking your brake pads and shoes...  More then likely the adjusters are fouled up and not working properly.  When you back up hard adn break, it should adjust the shoes.  If this hasn't been done in a long time, if ever then you'll need to manually adjust them so they are close to where the shoes rub against the drums.

Depending on how many miles you have on your brakes, you might get away with just adjusting them.  The next step would be replacing the shoes.  Going to some performance brake pads can make a huge difference.  Hawk are popular.  Bewarned that better brakes usually means they will wear out faster then harder brakes.

If you check the run out on the drums and discs and they are either warped or just warn out, it would probably be better to buy new discs or drums then to have them turned.  It really depends on what they look like though.

For the same cost as getting the brakes done in the shop, I can get the Hawk Performance HPS High Performance Street Disc Brake Pads for 90-06 Jeep Wrangler YJ, the Rear Brake Shoe Set w/ Hardware for 90-00 Jeep Wrangler YJ, and Crown Industrial 5 Layer Custom Extended Brake Lines in Red for 87-95 Jeep Wrangler YJ with 3"-4" Lift from Quadratec, so I think it is a better investment of my money...  And I could have enough for new rotors (maybe not crossdrilled and slotted, but you get the point!).

By the way, is the new brake hose something you guys would recommend?

There are several other ways to increase braking.  Larger master cylinder is a common one.  Either go with a large single or a dual diaphram.  Another option is to switch over to ZJ 2 pot front brakes.  Then there are slotted and drilled front discs but I'd put these lower on the priority list.

A double diaphragm master brake booster out of a 4L cherokee would be the best bang for the buck. The 2.5 use a single diaphragm.

I thought this was recommended for when you put 4 disc brakes, but not so much when you still have the rear drums.  I can do this even with the rear drum brakes?

Check your brakes and then use the above suggestion for a brake booster the bigger the tire the longer the stopping distance. Going to 31" tires from stock causes a noticeable decrease in brake performance

And since I eventually plan on going to 33"s, I need as much stopping power as I an get...  If I do swap out my rear axle for the Passport or Rodeo D44, that one comes with disc brakes, and that should help, but in the mean time, I do want my brakes to stop me!
'94 YJ 2.5L with 4" RE lift, Superwinch EPi9.0, FoMoCo e-Fan, SD30 and SD35 w/ARB-5.13, 165A alt., 33" BFG KM2 on 15" AR wheels, Sony sound system, Pavement Ends Hardtop, Hydroboost

Offline jfrabat

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Re: Brakes (suggestions?)
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2007, 07:41:49 AM »
By the way, this is what I am currently looking to get to do it on my own; any comments?

New Rotors:
http://brakeperformance.com/site/brake_rotors.php?vehicle_type_id=1&vehicle_make_id=9292&vehicle_model_id=9464&vehicle_year_id=9477&vehicle_engine_id=9478&cPath=1_9292_9464_9477_9478_9479&ad=google

New Pads
Hawk pads; which model do you recommend?  I am not necessarily getting them from this site, but they seem to have most models available for the YJ...
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/results.jsp?autoMake=Jeep&autoModel=Wrangler&autoYear=1994&autoModClar=&brand=Hawk

New Rear Brake Shoe Set with Hardware
http://www.quadratec.com/products/56216_06.htm

Will I need anything else?

Felipe

'94 YJ 2.5L with 4" RE lift, Superwinch EPi9.0, FoMoCo e-Fan, SD30 and SD35 w/ARB-5.13, 165A alt., 33" BFG KM2 on 15" AR wheels, Sony sound system, Pavement Ends Hardtop, Hydroboost

Offline Bounty Hunter

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Re: Brakes (suggestions?)
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2007, 08:12:19 AM »
Like Jeffy mentioned, could simply be your rear brakes are out of adjustment (common) and not doing anything to help you stop.

Offline jfrabat

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Re: Brakes (suggestions?)
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2007, 09:27:27 AM »
Like Jeffy mentioned, could simply be your rear brakes are out of adjustment (common) and not doing anything to help you stop.

In that case, should't the front brakes lock up if I slam on the brakes?  When I first got the Jeep, I did a complete maintenance (fluid changes, and such) at Firestone Car Center, and the guy told me that the brakes still had some miles in them, but they would need to be replaced soon, so I want to get that done with now that I got some money to do it...
'94 YJ 2.5L with 4" RE lift, Superwinch EPi9.0, FoMoCo e-Fan, SD30 and SD35 w/ARB-5.13, 165A alt., 33" BFG KM2 on 15" AR wheels, Sony sound system, Pavement Ends Hardtop, Hydroboost

Offline neale_rs

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Re: Brakes (suggestions?)
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2007, 09:30:35 AM »
And since I eventually plan on going to 33"s, I need as much stopping power as I an get...  If I do swap out my rear axle for the Passport or Rodeo D44, that one comes with disc brakes, and that should help, but in the mean time, I do want my brakes to stop me!

Make sure you get brake parts cleaner and don't breath the brake shoe dust.  :smile:

Also, when my D44 with 11 inch drums was installed, the braking improved a lot, the bigger drums are quite a bit more powerful. They don't grab  but can lock up the rears on dry pavement very easily.  I'm actually hoping that when I go to bigger tires, the braking will be toned down a bit. I can´t imagine what rear disks would do.

'95 YJ, 33 x 12.5 mud tires, RE 4.5 ED lift, Atlas 4 speed, rear D44, ARBs front and rear, 4.56 gears, 8000# winch

Offline Jeffy

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Re: Brakes (suggestions?)
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2007, 11:05:15 AM »
In that case, should't the front brakes lock up if I slam on the brakes?  When I first got the Jeep, I did a complete maintenance (fluid changes, and such) at Firestone Car Center, and the guy told me that the brakes still had some miles in them, but they would need to be replaced soon, so I want to get that done with now that I got some money to do it...

No, because now they're doing 100% of the braking instead of 75-85%

I'd probably go with a bigger booster or a double diaphragm rather then fancy rotors.  I'd start with the basics first., maintenance.  Then go from there.
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Offline jfrabat

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Re: Brakes (suggestions?)
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2007, 11:41:01 AM »
I'd start with the basics first., maintenance.  Then go from there.

OK, then, if I understand correctly, I should change the pads and brake shoes, and adjust the rear brake shoes?  From there, if the rotors or drums are bent or damaged, change those, and then change the master for something wih a little more ooomph?  Any particular masters that you would recommend?

What about special tools?  Other than the bleeders, what will I need?

And would you recommend getting the brake lines?  I think if I go with a larger booster, I may need them...

Felipe
'94 YJ 2.5L with 4" RE lift, Superwinch EPi9.0, FoMoCo e-Fan, SD30 and SD35 w/ARB-5.13, 165A alt., 33" BFG KM2 on 15" AR wheels, Sony sound system, Pavement Ends Hardtop, Hydroboost

Offline jfrabat

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Re: Brakes (suggestions?)
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2007, 11:43:43 AM »
'94 YJ 2.5L with 4" RE lift, Superwinch EPi9.0, FoMoCo e-Fan, SD30 and SD35 w/ARB-5.13, 165A alt., 33" BFG KM2 on 15" AR wheels, Sony sound system, Pavement Ends Hardtop, Hydroboost

Offline Jeffy

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Re: Brakes (suggestions?)
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2007, 12:07:19 PM »
Oh, and Jeffy, which Hawk pads do you recommend from these?

http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/results.jsp?autoMake=Jeep&autoModel=Wrangler&autoYear=1994&autoModClar=&brand=Hawk

Felipe

Well, I think that's going to be dependent on $$ and how you drive.  I'd maybe go with teh Ceramics since they are lower dust, wear and superior braking.  Although you could go with the HPS or the LTS's too.  Quadratec's prices for the HPS's are cheaper then Tirerack.


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Offline jfrabat

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Re: Brakes (suggestions?)
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2007, 12:40:48 PM »
Quadratec's prices for the HPS's are cheaper then Tirerack.

The ones in Quadratec are not ceramic; those are Ferro-Carbon pads...

In any case, I think I'll go ceramic as well.  Slightly better.

So again,  if I understand correctly, I should change the pads and brake shoes, and adjust the rear brake shoes?  From there, if the rotors or drums are bent or damaged, change those, and then change the master for something wih a little more ooomph?  Any particular masters that you would recommend?

What about special tools?  Other than the bleeders, what will I need?

And would you recommend getting the brake lines?  I think if I go with a larger booster, I may need them...

Felipe
'94 YJ 2.5L with 4" RE lift, Superwinch EPi9.0, FoMoCo e-Fan, SD30 and SD35 w/ARB-5.13, 165A alt., 33" BFG KM2 on 15" AR wheels, Sony sound system, Pavement Ends Hardtop, Hydroboost

Offline Jeffy

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Re: Brakes (suggestions?)
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2007, 12:57:29 PM »
The ones in Quadratec are not ceramic; those are Ferro-Carbon pads...

In any case, I think I'll go ceramic as well.  Slightly better.

So again,  if I understand correctly, I should change the pads and brake shoes, and adjust the rear brake shoes?  From there, if the rotors or drums are bent or damaged, change those, and then change the master for something wih a little more ooomph?  Any particular masters that you would recommend?

What about special tools?  Other than the bleeders, what will I need?

And would you recommend getting the brake lines?  I think if I go with a larger booster, I may need them...

Felipe

Yes, the HPS's are Carbon Metallics.

For the shoes you will really want to buy a set of brake pliers.  They aren't necessary BUT they will save you a lot of time and hardship.  I've seen people screw up their hands with screwdrivers while trying to remove the springs.  It's just not worth it and is easy with the pliers.

I'd hold off on the brakelines unless you really need them.  You do not necessarily need them with a larger booster.
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