4bangerjp.com
General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: Jeffy on August 23, 2012, 01:21:21 PM
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It's been over 10 days with no word from DCC. Nothing new there but I'm starting to second guess myself now. :lol: I'm wondering if I should just buy the 1A diodes, wire it up and save myself $190. :stick:
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My vote is for saving the $190. Extra electronics just decreases reliability.
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I'm still on the fence. Although if this was sold by a larger company, I would have bought it in the beginning.
Currently I have my fan set up like this:
(http://www.marquisphotos.com/ZR2_Blazer/V8ZR2/Images/Dual_Speed_Fan_Diagram_V3.jpg)
Ignore the High-speed side. I'm only using one relay and the low speed side. Looks like they have only one diode to keep the AC clutch from engaging when the 180* switch is on. I could buy a pack of 20 of those diodes for $5. :lol: I do really like the PWM though. I think that is a big plus which is what's swaying me buy it.
I do like how simple my current system is. I can bypass it or replace it with $5 parts.
I guess we'll see when we get closer to the 45 day mark.
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Maybe PWM is not so great. An air conditioning technician told me that fans last longer when just turned on to a fixed speed. It makes some sense since every time the speed is increased the fan has to accelerate some mass which will put extra load on it.
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Told you so. :slapfight:
I never did hear from him Got my money back thru Paypal.
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I like the simple circuit. Add a diode to your current setup and be done with it. Hell, you can bypass a diode with a second inline relay if you have one lying around.
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-U40a9vH7q88/UDhdn2sDCSI/AAAAAAAAC-Y/l6cC0g-U-8k/s901/2012-08-24.jpg)
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DCC was a wait for me also but well worth it. Everything is in one small package and very reliable.
The owner makes them to order, so its not a matter of pulling it off the shelf and shipping it.
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DCC was a wait for me also but well worth it. Everything is in one small package and very reliable.
The owner makes them to order, so its not a matter of pulling it off the shelf and shipping it.
As long as one of the relays he uses doesn't stick... :busted:
Hasn't happened in a while....when it does, I just give the hood a "Fonzie" bump near where the relay is and it is usually jarring enough to stop the fan.
:thumbsup: ayyyyyyyy
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I like the simple circuit. Add a diode to your current setup and be done with it. Hell, you can bypass a diode with a second inline relay if you have one lying around.
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-U40a9vH7q88/UDhdn2sDCSI/AAAAAAAAC-Y/l6cC0g-U-8k/s901/2012-08-24.jpg)
Hmm, I really like that. I hadn't though of doing it that way. Actually, since it's only triggering the low-speed side, you don't even need a 70A relay. A 40A relay will do fine instead.
I opened a depute on Paypal and will see if I can get an accurate shipping date. If it's too long a wait then I'll cancel the order. The guy should at least give you an idea of how long an order is going to take. I've never had any of my emails answered when I've asked. He's basically getting an intrest free loan at this point.
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As long as one of the relays he uses doesn't stick... :busted:
Hasn't happened in a while....when it does, I just give the hood a "Fonzie" bump near where the relay is and it is usually jarring enough to stop the fan.
:thumbsup: ayyyyyyyy
Hey, does your fan run all the time when the AC is on or is it setup to just run when the compressor is on?
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When the AC is one...tied into the wire that powers the whole AC unit, so the fan automatically runs when AC is selected inside. I don't think I've used it since I installed the fan though...just tried it to make sure it worked.
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When the AC is one...tied into the wire that powers the whole AC unit, so the fan automatically runs when AC is selected inside. I don't think I've used it since I installed the fan though...just tried it to make sure it worked.
Ok, so once the AC is on the fan runs regardless if the clutch is on or not. I think that's the proper way to do it. I still have to make a Y harness and get the signal lead out from inside the evaporator.
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yep...tied in before the wire even hits the computer.
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Hmm, I really like that. I hadn't though of doing it that way. Actually, since it's only triggering the low-speed side, you don't even need a 70A relay. A 40A relay will do fine instead.
I opened a depute on Paypal and will see if I can get an accurate shipping date. If it's too long a wait then I'll cancel the order. The guy should at least give you an idea of how long an order is going to take. I've never had any of my emails answered when I've asked. He's basically getting an intrest free loan at this point.
downside the way i see it is that you need to add more wires and reconfigure your current setup, only add 1 wire with the diode.
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downside the way i see it is that you need to add more wires and reconfigure your current setup, only add 1 wire with the diode.
Very true. I like the diode, I was just giving ideas.
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downside the way i see it is that you need to add more wires and reconfigure your current setup, only add 1 wire with the diode.
Yeah, I'd have to rewire it but I'm used to wiring. I have spools of wire, connectors and such.
Is there any problems with no having a diode on the thermo switch side in the original schematic? I haven't really thought about it.
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Yeah, I'd have to rewire it but I'm used to wiring. I have spools of wire, connectors and such.
Is there any problems with no having a diode on the thermo switch side in the original schematic? I haven't really thought about it.
I'm paranoid. I always diode up both sides of combined power sources. Nothing more fun then toasted wires or equipment. I'd just tie two diodes to a butt connector leading to your relay and each diode individually to each power source.
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I'm paranoid. I always diode up both sides of combined power sources. Nothing more fun then toasted wires or equipment. I'd just tie two diodes to a butt connector leading to your relay and each diode individually to each power source.
That's what I was thinking too. I still like that diagram you did though.
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Thanks
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Is there any problems with no having a diode on the thermo switch side in the original schematic? I haven't really thought about it.
not in your setup (if its like the diagram you posted)
the diode is there to prevent the clutch engaging when the thermocouple is on, having 12v on the ouput side of the t/c when is off is not affecting anything (it has no effect). That being said adding a diode on the t/c output will not hurt anything (if that gives you some peace of mind).
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Well, it looks like I'm not second guessing any longer. I filed a depute and two days later, without a word, he send a refund. I asked if he could give me a solid ship date and if not then I'd like to get a refund. I didn't really expect to see an answer since I've never gotten a reply from any of my emails I've sent to him.
In any case, I'll be buying some diodes and terminals so I can trigger the fan from the AC blower switch. I think I'll spend the $200 on the 200a Alternator instead.
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good plan, this guy has bad customer service manners.
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good plan, this guy has bad customer service manners.
Yeah, I don't know how this guy stays in business. Although, I'm sure it's not his day job. Worked out of his house so, yeah, he's got no overhead to deal with. It looks like his website is trying to eat itself. No contact info listed and mediocre interactions with the internet at best.
In any case, yeah, I've got to add some splices to my AC switch so I can tell the fan and PCM to do their thing. Also, need to get rid of the 75a (stock) alternator and go back with a high-amp one.
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I'm having a brain fart... When installing the diodes I want the Cathode (->|) towards the relay and +12v is on the Anode right?
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Getting back to the original question; I'm having a brain fart... When installing the diodes I want the Cathode (->|) towards the relay and +12v is on the Anode right?
the arrow should point same as the logical current flow, so would be like you say from the clutch wire (which is the power source + in this case) towards the consumer (which is the relay solenoid). the vertical bar side is the cathode (i'm a little confused by your diagram above ->| and i don't know which side you mean) and the arrow side is the Anode
so should look like this
+12v_Clutch_Wire -->|-- Relay_Solenoid
(probably that's what you meant but you see why i'm not 100% sure)
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It's going to be +12v Key & A/C Blower ->| Relay.
Should be the right then? Basically 2 +12v sources going to the trigger on the relay.
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It's going to be +12v Key & A/C Blower ->| Relay.
Should be the right then? Basically 2 +12v sources going to the trigger on the relay.
hang on, why 12v key, that goes to the thermocouple and from there to the relay right?
so like this
+12v_key - t/c - (-->|--) - \
| - Relay
A/C_Blower_+12v- (-->|--) - /
but you could also use the A/C Compressor clutch wire as there's no need to run the fan when the compressor is off.
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hang on, why 12v key, that goes to the thermocouple and from there to the relay right?
so like this
+12v_key - t/c - (-->|--) - \
| - Relay
A/C_Blower_+12v- (-->|--) - /
but you could also use the A/C Compressor clutch wire as there's no need to run the fan when the compressor is off.
My fault for not being clear. Yes, you're right, the thermocouple goes to one lead.
The reason for having the fan on when the blower is on is so there isn't the lug when the compressor AND the fan kick on at the same time. Although the fan isn't as noticeable now that I have the new alternator. This is also how most cars are wired from the factory. I might change my mind on it though. Like you said, there isn't any reason for the fan to be running all the time but it could get annoying when the AC is on low and the clutch kicks on and off every 10 seconds. Lots of cycles.
I need to get some more shrink tubing to finish it.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-9uig9UHydN4/UFJ4eF_GOLI/AAAAAAAAlNU/ycztB9UJB5k/s800/IMG_1686.jpg)
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looks good
why not just joining the 1 end that goes to the relay on the diodes and use 1 wire from there?
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looks good
why not just joining the 1 end that goes to the relay on the diodes and use 1 wire from there?
I didn't even think of that. I'd probably end up with a big clump of solder if I tried gathering them all together. So this looks neater. It's not a big deal though. I was just some scrap wire that I had and there was plenty. I have them crimped together in one terminal. The wire is only 3.5" long on either side of the diode. I have to wait to get some more shrink tubing though. I seem to have run out.
I also need to figure out what size terminals are on the AC blower switch. They're larger then the 1/4" I have. 6.3mm?
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splice, solder and shrink tube on that wire
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I'm trying to keep splices to a minimum though. It's a lot easier to get to one terminal and add a Y-harness in there anyway.
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Did you use the AC line that auto-bumps the idle when the AC is on to trigger the fan? then it only comes on with the compressor.
Its the single wire in the middle of the firewall. (At least it is on my 94... But my factory system does not use it, Its tied in to a harness under the dash.
Cheers.
Dave'
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Did you use the AC line that auto-bumps the idle when the AC is on to trigger the fan? then it only comes on with the compressor.
Its the single wire in the middle of the firewall. (At least it is on my 94... But my factory system does not use it, Its tied in to a harness under the dash.
Cheers.
Dave'
Nope. The FSM shows the AC request turns on when the blower fan is on. Not when the clutch comes on. There is no engine fan trigger as the engine uses a mechanical fan.
The stuff you're missing was discussed in this thread. http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php/topic,2783.705.html
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HUh,, I'll be darned. Mine only high idles with the compressor on... The plug that runs mine is in the engine compartment... with a short harness through the firewall to the ac control panel... Mine was a dealer installed unit. But I did have serious issues with the dealer later. :brick:
I've been hoping for the score on a yard pullout from a Hemi pickup... :)
Dave
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HUh,, I'll be darned. Mine only high idles with the compressor on... The plug that runs mine is in the engine compartment... with a short harness through the firewall to the ac control panel... Mine was a dealer installed unit. But I did have serious issues with the dealer later. :brick:
I've been hoping for the score on a yard pullout from a Hemi pickup... :)
Dave
Yeah, Sharp also mentioned just hooking the AC Request and fan to the clutch. I'm not sure if one way is better then the other. Does the PCM bump the idle up in time or is there a slight shudder? Really though using the clutch trigger would be easier.
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Min maintains the engine speed + a few rpm, if the pump switches off there is a momentary bump to like 950 rpms if there is no load on the motor.
I've found it helps keep speed up when crawling along in L-L :0 and keeps me cool! Bonus.
Dave
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Min maintains the engine speed + a few rpm, if the pump switches off there is a momentary bump to like 950 rpms if there is no load on the motor.
I've found it helps keep speed up when crawling along in L-L :0 and keeps me cool! Bonus.
Dave
So it compensates quick enough not to drop below 750 when the pump kicks in? I forget are you using an electric fan or the engine?
From a performance standpoint it would probably be better if the idle up and the fan only turn on when the compressor is on. If I was to do that I'd need to splice the clutch signal in too places. One for the AC Request and again for the fan.
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HUh,, I'll be darned. Mine only high idles with the compressor on... The plug that runs mine is in the engine compartment... with a short harness through the firewall to the ac control panel... Mine was a dealer installed unit. But I did have serious issues with the dealer later. :brick:
I've been hoping for the score on a yard pullout from a Hemi pickup... :)
Dave
there are 2 wires that go to the PCM, A/C request and A/C select, one tells the PCM that you turned the ac on, the other one tells when to high idle while the compressor is on - that's how Jeffy will wire it.
there's also an a/c relay ground coming from the pcm, most likely as a safety feature so it can turn off a/c if engine temp goes too high.
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there are 2 wires that go to the PCM, A/C request and A/C select, one tells the PCM that you turned the ac on, the other one tells when to high idle while the compressor is on - that's how Jeffy will wire it.
there's also an a/c relay ground coming from the pcm, most likely as a safety feature so it can turn off a/c if engine temp goes too high.
I thought one was to turn the clutch on and off and wasn't connected to the high idle? Gonna have to look at that again.
I ended up redoing the Y-harness. I swapped the cable from 14awg down to 16awg since I found some scraps. (I have a lot of wire.) Turned out better then I though.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ZJ5dQizeOPs/UFJ4eC2aFMI/AAAAAAAAlNU/Qgx3Fw4utx4/s800/IMG_1690.jpg)
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looks good, just use 2 shrink tube strips on the dual connection side that cover the diodes and then a larger one over everything so it keeps it nice and straight.
I thought one was to turn the clutch on and off and wasn't connected to the high idle? Gonna have to look at that again.
there is one that goes to the thermocouple/thermostat inside the evaporator and from there to the pressure protect switch on the canister, if i'm not mistaking from there it goes to the clutch. So the compressor will only operate when those 2 contacts are closed, so should the high/normal idle select.
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looks good, just use 2 shrink tube strips on the dual connection side that cover the diodes and then a larger one over everything so it keeps it nice and straight.
That's the plan.
I'm now thinking I might have the fan turn on with the clutch instead. I don't really want it running 24/7 and the bullet connectors are easy to get to.
Looks like I can get to the A/C Select at the PDC and tap in there with a blade terminal. I'm wondering if I'll get to the A/C request this year though. Running out of time this year.
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i updated my previous post with a comment on your pcm connections.
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i updated my previous post with a comment on your pcm connections.
Ok, I'll check it out again.
I got antsy and found just enough shrink tubing to fit over the diodes. I tend to use that size tubing a lot and only and 1" of it left.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-n3Jos7mpCpg/UFJ4eHF03dI/AAAAAAAAlNU/w8O50kuc_y4/s800/IMG_1692.jpg)
And here it is sealed up.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-heEkYoxzKKo/UFJ4eEW9oeI/AAAAAAAAlNU/KhrrFChlcSk/s800/IMG_1693.jpg)
:fya:
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Looks like a pro job!
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I got a bug up my butt and did some more work. I used the small harness off of the high-pressure switch since I had spliced extra length into it. I hard soldered the diode harness to this so there are no extra connectors. You can see the cable passes right by the switch so it was an easy decision. So the fan turns on only when the clutch fan or the thermostat is on. I need to add loom on there to cover up all the exposed cable and make it look factory. I keep it open since I'm always doing something with the wiring there.
Oh and it only cost me $3 for the two diodes. So I saved $183. :fya: :fap:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-chNrDWVdQfI/UFJ4ePTXtJI/AAAAAAAAlNU/iDyBe49g414/s720/IMG_1694.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-N64VXp_zVzo/UFJ4eFJYrJI/AAAAAAAAlNU/5wyEazw1AwQ/s720/IMG_1698.jpg)
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so the output from the pressure switch goes to the clutch and that's where you spliced in? that's nice and close to the relay/diodes so it makes it shorter and cleaner.
you should use the same one for the PCM a/c clutch sense to increase the idle.
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so the output from the pressure switch goes to the clutch and that's where you spliced in? that's nice and close to the relay/diodes so it makes it shorter and cleaner.
you should use the same one for the PCM a/c clutch sense to increase the idle.
Yup, I put the splice after the pressure switch and before the clutch. That's where one of the splices I had made before to extend the pressure switch wires to the compressor. (so there are 4 splices)
I'm thinking I'll solder another wire to the pressure switch harness as well but from a different splice then the one I made. The splice higher up is a lot closer to the PDC. Then I'd put a spade terminal on it and plug it into the socket for the A/C Relay. I think that will work. Just need to figure out which pin it is.
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Looks like a pro job!
Thanks! I have a lot of electronic stuff since I was heavily into it in years past. Might as well do it right the first time.
I still have to see about wiring the blower switch to the A/C Request. I think getting the A/C Select will be easy now that I know I can get to it at the PDC. Need to find time to get it done though. Also, need to figure out what size terminals are used for the blower switch. It's blue so that should tell me it's size of the wire, 14-16AWG but not the size of the quick connect seems larger then 1/4". Can't find the exact size.
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Delphi. Napa carries most of them... The delphi spade connectors are just enough bigger to keep you from using the generic ones with thier stuff.. B**t**ds! :brick:
Dave
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Delphi. Napa carries most of them... The delphi spade connectors are just enough bigger to keep you from using the generic ones with thier stuff.. B**t**ds! :brick:
Dave
These are standard QD terminals. Most are .25 aka: 6.35mm. I think I know what size it is now. I think it's .375". That seems to be the most common upsize.
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These are standard QD terminals. Most are .25 aka: 6.35mm. I think I know what size it is now. I think it's .375". That seems to be the most common upsize.
that seems a bit large (3/8)
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that seems a bit large (3/8)
well the guy at JeepAir said they're standard connectors so they might be 6.35mm. I'm going to check with a non-insulated terminal.
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Was looking at the DCC site. Just bought a Mark VIII fan myself and was looking for a fan relay kit.
I didn't think the Mark VIII fan cycling on/off would be that big a deal and was looking at a Hayden kit or one of these Hollister kits featured in Carcraft http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_1111_electric_radiator_fans/ (http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_1111_electric_radiator_fans/) . But, take it the Mark VIII cycling gets pretty annoying so some kind of variable speed controller smooths things out? Any help appreciated.
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If you have an upgraded alternator you'll barely notice the fan turning on. There is a very slight stumble as it kicks in. If you're not paying attention you might not notice it.
As for the controller it depends on what you want it to do and how much you want to pay. Most of us don't care about the hi-speed so we don't use that circuit. The lo-speed circuit doesn't draw as much power and can be run on a 40a relay. Although I'd probably get 60-80a relay if you can find one cheap. I've seen some for under $10. The 40a's are more like $5. It really doesn't matter that much though. I also highly recommend you using a circuit breaker (CB) instead of a standard blade fuse. You can get a 40a CB with 10-32 Threaded Studs for $4. Then all you need is a thermo switch. The Hayden 3653 Economy Adjustable Thermostatic Fan Control is around $16.
There's also the Hayden 3647 and the 3651 Adjustable Thermostatic Fan Control but I'm not sure of the quality. I had issues with my fuse holder melting because of the amp draw on a few occasions so I'm a bit skeptical that it won't still happen. There's no mention of the relay spec. I'm gonna guess it's the common 30a which is probably a little low even for the lo-speed. You'd then have to upgrade it to a 40a, in which case you'd be better off making your own harness/controller. I run 16awg for the dash switch and thermo and 14 awg for the power and fan. If you want to be color coordinated you'll need two spools of each. Otherwise you could just get one of each.
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relay is 40Amp, fuse is 30, it's fine for the low speed.