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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: chrisfranklin on April 09, 2007, 07:11:37 PM
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I managed prep and paint the hood, fenders, grill/front end this weekend. Already did the bodywork on the front end.
Went ahead and used a sandable spray primer to fill in some of the scratches on the surfaces to be painted. Then went with the factory black and then clearcoat and sanded between coats.
Here's the question now, though: I finished with the clearcoat and have let it dry for a couple of days (Right now the new clearcoat has kind of the frosty beer mug finish to it). I had some rubbing compound and was expecting to apply it to the clearcoat and then buff it out to a nice mirror shine. I tried it, but the clearcoat didn't budge. I guess this means I need to go over the clearcoat with something more aggressive - say, with a fine grade of sandpaper, 1000-1500-2000-3000 grit ? What do you think (have been having difficulties pulling up answers searching around)?
Note: Just in painting the hood, fenders, grill/front end, I went through 3 cans of primer, 3 cans of the factory black and 3 cans of the clearcoat. Course, I was doing the painting outside in the middle of nowhere (but it was dustfree!), holding can at correct distance, but with a slight wind that dissipated some of the primer/paint. Figure you can do your whole Jeep professional-quality with 5 cans primer, 5 cans of the base, 5 cans clearcoat, but only if you are inside. Expect to go 6-7 cans of each if you are outside in a slight wind :lol: I am going to have to buy more paint.
Thanks to Jeffy for the plastic trigger idea and Wrangler387 for the sandpaper/filler tips.
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Right now the pages I have read suggest that a refinish job (what I did) is going to be much heavier on clearcoat than would be a factory job. The heavy clearcoat of the refinish job means I should have a little more room to maneuver if sanding. And, I have to admit, I went pretty heavy, basically plowing through several light coats over a few hours.
From what I am reading, I think I am going to wet-sand the clear coat with 1200, then 1500, then 2000 grit and then finally rub it out. Then wait a month and wax it the first time.
This sound right?
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I am no expert but I have painted a few wrecked crotch rockets and I have always sanded the clear coat lightly then buffed it. Its worked out fine but I never used a rattle can so??? Be very very carefull with the buffer if your not doing it by hand, it will really piss you off to get that far and scorch the paint.
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Well, the first step would be to use 1500 grit sand paper to sand out the dirt that might have managed to get into the clear, just sand it flat with some 1500 on a small hard sanding block. Then sand over the areas that you used 1500 with 2000 and then increase the area with 2500 and finally 3000. Staying away from your edges so as you dont burn through when buffing or break through with the sand paper. Going all the way through 3000 will make the scratches easier to buff out, and i would not use any sand paper coarser than 1500 unless you had a run in the clear that you need to cut out, then you can use 800 to knock down the run most of the way, and then proceed to 1200 and then 1500. Just becareful to sand only the run using the small sanding block. Next you want to used some rubbing compound to buff out your sanding scratches, keep in mind that the compound will still leave scratches in the paint but you want to buff the "dullness" that the sanding produced out with the compound. Next you want to use polish to remove the scratches produced by the compound, 3M among other brands makes all the products you will need. Finally you will want to get some swirl remover to remove the light scratches and swrill marks left behind after polishing. If i remember correctly your jeep is black, which is only the hardest color to color sand and buff, but patience is key, just remember that you can always go back and sand a little more if need be but having to go back and spot something in because you sanded through an edge is never fun. The frosted look that you are discribing is hard to picture, but the above steps are used after clear coat to provide a glossy scratch free finish. Hope this helps, let me know if you have any other questions.
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Well, the first step would be to use 1500 grit sand paper to sand out the dirt that might have managed to get into the clear, just sand it flat with some 1500 on a small hard sanding block. Then sand over the areas that you used 1500 with 2000 and then increase the area with 2500 and finally 3000. Staying away from your edges so as you dont burn through when buffing or break through with the sand paper. Going all the way through 3000 will make the scratches easier to buff out, and i would not use any sand paper coarser than 1500 unless you had a run in the clear that you need to cut out, then you can use 800 to knock down the run most of the way, and then proceed to 1200 and then 1500. Just becareful to sand only the run using the small sanding block. Next you want to used some rubbing compound to buff out your sanding scratches, keep in mind that the compound will still leave scratches in the paint but you want to buff the "dullness" that the sanding produced out with the compound. Next you want to use polish to remove the scratches produced by the compound, 3M among other brands makes all the products you will need. Finally you will want to get some swirl remover to remove the light scratches and swrill marks left behind after polishing. If i remember correctly your jeep is black, which is only the hardest color to color sand and buff, but patience is key, just remember that you can always go back and sand a little more if need be but having to go back and spot something in because you sanded through an edge is never fun. The frosted look that you are discribing is hard to picture, but the above steps are used after clear coat to provide a glossy scratch free finish. Hope this helps, let me know if you have any other questions.
Thanks Great White with this tip and on the first go around with the filler and painting too. That's what I'll do. Man, this is a lot of work, but it's looking good. I got going on it late this afternoon, already had some 1000 grit and 1500 grit. I lightly wet-sanded with the 1000 grit and it seemed ok (did inadvertantly catch the edge of one fender too close and went to the metal though [doh!] so going to have to work that out). Doing the 1500 grit tommorow. I had put the clearcoat on very heavy and I know the 1000 grit is a little rough, but I had a nice clearcoat layer to work with. This sanding process, post clearcoat, is like shaving your own 'mug' :lol:
On the streets now, I am starting to look at old cars that need a paint job and think, "you know, you buy that thing for a few thousand and with a DIY paint job and a lot of work, that old car could look pretty stunning."
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No problem at all, glad that i could help ya. It sounds like you are doing a great job cant wait to see some pics of it when its done. :thumb:
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I'm a little disappointed in my local auto parts places. They seem to run out of grits 2000-2500-3000. I went to four different places and was lucky to find some expensive pre-cut 1500! That's it! You can always count on your time-frame/schedule getting thrown off by this kind of thing :lol:
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It will probably be easier to find and could be cheaper to buy at a hardware store.
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2000 grit imo is good enough. There are a few good threads on that forum about what products to use for buffing also.
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This thread is in desperate need of pics! :beers:
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I think I have been a little overconfident on this paint job (Wow, what other cars can I paint? You can paint your Jeep with just 5 cans of spray primer/paint/clear, 7 a piece if you are doing it in the wind :crap:).
Jeep was looking ok the other day, at least like I had applied this beer-mug translucent clear coat completely. As far as the sequence of things, I thought body work was ok. I then did black factory coat over the primer I used to fill in some of the sand-paper scratches. But, like I said, when clearcoat went on it left a kind of translucent beer mug finish on the black coat. I figured I'd just sand and rub the clear coat out and it would shine and alls well. But, even going really fine grade sandpaper (1000-1500-2000-Rub) and rubbing it out, the clear coat never shined up, the black base coat looked like hell underneath which I am still trying to figure out and frankly the body work I did had some weak spots too that could have been done better. I put a ton of time in to this, too. :brick: :lol:
Frankly, I am not sure if I can finish this Jeep effectively with can spray paint unless I am inside in a windless, dust-free environment or I've got paint to burn, so to speak. Was looking for some kind of rent-a-garage to do it in, but there doesn't seem to be any in the SF valley. And, I am not overconfident in the custom mixed paint products I bought, since I followed the directions to the letter.
I might end up fine tuning the body work I did, sand/prep the existing surface, mask it and then deliver it to Maaco or wherever so somebody can use a gun to go over it with a high-gloss black, then sand and clearcoat. It won't be the factory black, but at least it'll look like its got a new paint job. Me :asshat:
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Hey now dont get to down on yourself, this was a huge project to take on and you went at it with all cylinders ;) I wish i had an easy answer for you but what your discribing is increadibly hard to figure out exactly what happend and in what step it happened in. Although, the only thing i can think that you are trying to describe is that the clear coat is "dry" as in because of the wind you didnt get 2-3 nice wet coats of clear on the jeep so its not giving you that deep glossy look to it, eliminating the wind is a must, dirt can be sanded out later :biggrin: sorry things didnt go great for ya buddy, give you an "A" for effort though thats for sure!
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Hey now dont get to down on yourself, this was a huge project to take on and you went at it with all cylinders ;) I wish i had an easy answer for you but what your discribing is increadibly hard to figure out exactly what happend and in what step it happened in. Although, the only thing i can think that you are trying to describe is that the clear coat is "dry" as in because of the wind you didnt get 2-3 nice wet coats of clear on the jeep so its not giving you that deep glossy look to it, eliminating the wind is a must, dirt can be sanded out later :biggrin: sorry things didnt go great for ya buddy, give you an "A" for effort though thats for sure!
I have the DIY prep then Maaco option, of course - which may end up most cost effective, in my case (if have a dustfree garage, a second car/truck to use for day-to-day stuff while you're painting your Jeep, and your paint/clearcoat supplies are proven good, you have a ton of the various grades of sandpaper, then you should be all set to paint yourself).
I am going to go over the body work again - dents filled well, but I may need to go over it with some putty to fill any pinholes (even with Evercoat you still get'em), saw another slight hood dent that I must have missed and the used tailgate I have needs to be installed and the locks changed. With that done, I am going to seriously look and see if I can find some kind of rental indoor garage space or a frigging windless/dustless spot accessible in SF Valley or OC. If I can do that, I should be able to give it another go and have some better luck on the second try (course, the DIY prep/Maaco option may be the wiser choice give the logistics issues I face - no readily available dustfree garage)
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the DIY prep and Macco paint job will turn out really nice actually especially if you take things off that they normally would not, ie door handles and any trim thats easily removeable.
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Are we EVER going to get pictures with this post??? :bore:
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How about it Mozman, "Are you ever going to get pictures with this post?" Maybe when there is something worth photographing :lol: :twofingers:
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:puzzled:
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Alright Alright, Mozman's going to get his photos. :lol: Looks like I was a little short to him last time. Trying to fill, sand, prime, paint and clearcoat one's Jeep all by hand, over many days and weeks, in less than ideal conditions (remote location 20 miles away from residence) in addition to job demands, life, etc can overload your patience and crash your social skills :lol: My apologies to Mr. Mozman.
I finished out the basic bodywork on the Jeep pretty well using Evercoat filler. I filled and sanded to completion 5 major sections -- left rear corner, under driver door, left and right fender, and hood-top. Then I did the same with a couple of minor spots. Looks like its going to be a good foundation for the rest of the work -- finer sanding, priming, painting.
Like I said, I did this all by hand. And it turns out that might have been a decent idea for somebody inexperienced working with plastic filler. Reason being is that I probably would have carved into the filler too deeply with the sander and would have had "re-fill" a second or even third time. Doing it by hand, let me get close to the level I wanted and then I could sand a few strokes at a time until I was certain that the surface was right.
Now, don't know if you guys have any experience, post-filler, with the Putty application + 320-400 grit paper. This Putty fills any scratches from the 40-80 grit paper used to shape the filler and it also fills any pores in the filler.
I had a bad session with it the other day: I would apply it in small dabs and then spread it on the area with a plastic spatula. The stuff dries extremely fast though. To cover every area on a large surface like the hood caused me to partially overlap coats of the putty!
I ended up in a situation where the the putty was built up too thickly in many areas and was now not drying in those areas. I started going at it with 320 but was not making progress. I ended up switching to 40-60 to tear down the built-up putty only to find that it was not drying where it had overlapped!! :brick:
Ultimately, I got things down to where I could smooth the surface with the 320 and it came out ok. But, in the daylight today, I noticed that I still had numerous 40-80 grit-made scratches to fill. The way I figure it, in order to lay down thin coats of the puddy in a professional fashion, I am going to have to do this probably over most of a day, just doing small sections at a time until the surface imperfections are completely filled.
After that I may sand and prime the Jeep and then take some time away from it before I gear up for the paint and clearcoat stages :gimp:
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Chris just remember that a lot of putties kinda shrink a little over time. So scratches and small imperfections will show up again same happens with several coats of primer. The best bet is to get the bondo to go on without pinholes if possible
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Good advice. And I took it and actually did ok with very few pinholes this time.
What's putting up the fight are these gouges from the 40-60 grit paper. I followed directions and used that grit paper to level the Evercoat. And it did a nice job. Just that the 40-60 grit scratches run through the filler and on to the sheet metal. By the time I get done, my Jeep is going to be half-red with the putty and I am probably not going to have time to painted immediately!
I figured that this putty business was going to be a quick and easy follow up after the filler and sanding; maybe a couple hours at most. I think I confused this putty process with spackling screws after putting up drywall. :'( :lol:
Problem here is that the "screws" I am covering-over in this case are about 16 square feet in area (due to all the scratches)
I am figuring I am going to have to do the putty in 2 or 3 efforts that may take a full day or two. Its all good, outdoor exercise though :lol:
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It took me a couple of days, but I finished off a few things:
A) Bodywork - Additional Evercoat filler work plus Evercoat putty application (this putty is way easier to work with versus Bondo Putty. Me and Bondo Putty :brick:)
B) Sanding - Filler and entire body
C) Masking and Primer application. Ended up doing the entire Jeep in Grey primer out of concern that the topcoat might not seem consistent on a body only partially coated with primer -- ie. if I just primed the areas where I did bodywork.
Only thing is that my use of the primer was a kind of a mid-course correction in the paint process. I was planning to just go straight to a polyurethane enamel topcoat after doing the bodywork and sanding. But the bodywork and adjacent areas still had some scratches that made primer seem like a necessary move if I wanted to do a complete job.
Of course, the Rustoleum Primer I used is a water-based enamel. I am not certain of its compatibility with the Blue Water Marine Polyurethane Enamel I have (I sent the Blue Water people an inquiry on this; may require the Rusty primer to cure for 30 days or something). If the blue water is a no go then I'll just go with Rustoleum Black Gloss Topcoat, resell the Poly and leave it at that.
Anyway, even with just the bodywork done and the Jeep entirely coated just in Rustoleum Primer (which effectively looks white), the effect is impressive. Looks professionally done (at least when viewed at 5ft away or going by at 5mph :lol:)
Will post the first round of photos tommorrow.
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Will post the first round of photos tommorrow.
Promises, promises.
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Here's some photos. Hopefully this link works. Just hit the slideshow button. First 3 photos are my heap "before" with the worn out original black paint. Second two photos are from yesterday -- post bodywork, sanding and primer application.
http://www1.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=177059492/a=107729777_107729777/t_=107729777
I am going to stick with gloss or semi-gloss black as the top-coat.
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Sorry, not going to register with the site to see the pics.
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Sorry about that. That's a rip
I am going to have to launder the photos through some kind of compression software that will shrink them down. Or alter settings.
They are POS cell camera photos at 256k per and the limit is 125k.
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Go to photobucket.
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I worked with it a little more. These are the pre-body work, sand, prime
[attachment deleted by admin]
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These are post body-work, sand, prime
[attachment deleted by admin]
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If that primer is anything like most other primers, it will pull moisture from the air if left exposed. It's always best to spray a light coast of paint if you're not going to be working with it for a while.
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Jeffy, JesseJames
The writeups on the Rustoleum/Tremclad as AutoPaint Topcoats direct that you thin the paint with mineral spirits by 20-50% to insure fast drying and sandability within a reasonable timeframe -- say 8 hours. One write-up suggested that applying unthinned Rustoleum as the topcoat would delay sanding (of topcoat) for months!
Like I said, I wasn't planning on using a primer (and none of the write-ups really brought it up unless maybe its a topic that most painters think goes without saying after undertaking "bodywork"). But I put some effort in to the attention to bodywork and manual sanding and didn't want to end up with a half-a$$ed end result that I could have avoided with a primer coat.
The Rustoleum primer can suggested that I could paint over the un-thinnned primer within 2 hours after its application. You think, however, that I should hold off on the topcoat for a while, say weeks/months? Or, you think that, because sanding is not an issue with the primer, that I can immediately begin with the topcoat?
Jeffy mentioned the moisture issue with the primer, also. And I also have paint compatibility concerns -- Rustoleum Primer is water based and the Topcoat paint I have is Blue Water Marine Paint, a Polyurethane Enamel (no mention of its water or oil base or compatibility with water based primer). Would have gone with the Interlux poly as write-up suggested, but Interlux didn't sell a gloss black. Perhaps I make much issue about nothing regarding paint compatibility though. :beers:
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(http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup6aQQ%7C%3Dup6RKKt%3AxxqpD0-Wt0frj%3DQofrj7t%3DzrRfDUX%3AeQaQxg%3Dr%3F87KR6xqpxQPQexeonxeeexv8uOc5xQQQJeoJeQP0QoqpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXPnP%7CRup6lQQ%7C/of=50,590,442)
(http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup6aQQ%7C%3Dup6RKKt%3AxxqpD0-Wt0frj%3DQofrj7t%3DzrRfDUX%3AeQaQxg%3Dr%3F87KR6xqpxQPQexeonxeeexv8uOc5xQQQJeoJeQQlPGqpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXPnQ%7CRup6lQQ%7C/of=50,590,442)
(http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup6aQQ%7C%3Dup6RKKt%3AxxqpD0-Wt0frj%3DQofrj7t%3DzrRfDUX%3AeQaQxg%3Dr%3F87KR6xqpxQPQexeonxeeexv8uOc5xQQQJeoJln0Qa0qpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXPnQ%7CRup6lQQ%7C/of=50,590,442)
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Looks kind of pink in the pictures.... :whistle: :lol: is that your secret Jeep painting spot, in the middle of a dirt trail? :eek:
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looks kind blue to me :uhoh:
Looks kind of pink in the pictures.... :whistle: :lol: is that your secret Jeep painting spot, in the middle of a dirt trail? :eek:
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Its greyish/white. At least that's what the can said.
I know that looks idiotic right? Dirt road, catch some wind, dirt in the paint etc, right. But it is surrounded by hills and there is little wind at that spot. Looks like basically a spot where locals dump their construction debris, beat up sofas or whatever so I haven't been on the receiving end of any guff for doing the work there.
I've got a car wash about 4 miles away, have washed the thing down at several points after sanding. Its all gone well, cleanly so far with the bodywork, sanding, primer application. Bought in extensive supplies and carted out all trash etc. If there were better, easier, cleaner spots I woulda done it a long time ago :rant: :lol:
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Don't know if you got to painting it yet, but if you haven't I was just looking at a site were the guy painted his jeep at home with rattle can paint. I think it was rustoleum hammered or textured finish...it actually looks great. He has a whole write up on his site, pics are halfway down the page. Finished pics are on page 5. Anyways, just seeing if I could help. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427211&page=3
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Don't know if you got to painting it yet, but if you haven't I was just looking at a site were the guy painted his jeep at home with rattle can paint. I think it was rustoleum hammered or textured finish...it actually looks great. He has a whole write up on his site, pics are halfway down the page. Finished pics are on page 5. Anyways, just seeing if I could help. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427211&page=3
Hmm, interesting. The Hammered finish would hide any imperfections which would be a huge plus. I prefer Hammerite brand since it also very tough because it is made up of crushed glass. No need to prime and it stops rust dead. That looks to be Hammered black. It comes out a dark gunmetal. I used it on my rear axle. Love the stuff.
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Don't know if you got to painting it yet, but if you haven't I was just looking at a site were the guy painted his jeep at home with rattle can paint. I think it was rustoleum hammered or textured finish...it actually looks great. He has a whole write up on his site, pics are halfway down the page. Finished pics are on page 5. Anyways, just seeing if I could help. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427211&page=3
Hmm, interesting. The Hammered finish would hide any imperfections which would be a huge plus. I prefer Hammerite brand since it also very tough because it is made up of crushed glass. No need to prime and it stops rust dead. That looks to be Hammered black. It comes out a dark gunmetal. I used it on my rear axle. Love the stuff.
yeah, he has some close ups on there and it looks pretty good.
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Thanks Gomi. That hammered silver does look pretty good. I might look at the hammered black to roll-on :biggrin:
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Sweet...I never thought of painting with textured paint. I just added textured paint as an option on my product at work. Costs more but ends up saving us a ton of money spent on re-work since it hides welds that weren't ground down enough. Would be awesome on the Jeep.
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I used the hammered finish (black) on my roll cage and it turned out great.
I'm going to repaint my bumpers, it's great to hide any blemishes or rough spots.
I used the brush on because I didn't have a place to spray and the hammered finish doesn't show any brush marks.
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It looks like the hammered Rustoleum doesn't involve any sanding. Just roll it on, spray it on, go a few coats for coverage. With off-the-shelf spray, there's none of the thinning either.
If it turns out that the quarts of Blue Water Poly I have isn't compatible with Rusto Primer I already have on there, then I figure I'll just do the hammered black.
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I think you should go with the spray, I have used both and I think for the entire body, the spray has a much finer texture. It will still haid imperfections and go on easily, but the hammered texture is much finer and will look more polished I think.
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Yeah, but Gomi, don't be angry with me if I follow through with using the 3 quarts of Gloss Black Polyurethane I already have. :lol: Mine is a daily driver and 98% on the street serving mostly as a convertible. Sad but true :lol:
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"Uh, Chris, you are going to be using oil based polyurethane paint and clearcoat, so make sure that primer you applied is oil-based and not water-based." This is what I wish I could have told myself a week ago.
Starting anew on this paintjob (following my initial spraycan debacle months ago), I went over the bodywork again and again with Evercoat products. Took a lot of work/sanding/checking and rechecking 6 times over 10 different filled areas, but the it turned out well.
Then I followed up with the grey Primer as seen in photos previously.
Initially, I read through the write-ups on roll-on paint jobs and these said apply primer, so that's what I was looking to do. I went to the Hardware store and bought a Rustoleum Primer product thinking, "Rustoleum is good, can't go wrong with Rustoleum Primer, right?"
The Rustoleum primer I bought said it was appliable to metals, etc. And I wanted to get something on the Jeep over this hodge-podge of scratched black paint and evercoat that was its current shabby cover.
I thought it turned out well; I sanded out the orange peal and it looked like I was ready to thin/roll-on/sand multiple polyurethane topcoats. Well not so fast.
I find out the primer I used is Rustoleum's Painter's Touch -- a water-based latex. Its pretty obvious that you don't want to use this stuff under oil based paints like my Polyurethane. So, I have to strip the water based primer now and then redo the Jeep with an oil-based primer -- basically standard Rustoleum "Oil-Based" Professional Primer.
If any of you guys ever consider roll-painting/Spraying an old Jeep on the cheap using Rustoleum/Tremclad (Oil-Based) or Interlux-type PolyUrethanes (Oil-Based), don't make the mistake of using a water-based Primer! :'( :lol:
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It is best to buy all of your paint supplies at a auto paint supply store so you can ask them about incompatibilities of products. It such a pain when your underlaying paint/primes disolves and swells up. I am much better at body work then painting, have done some carpainting and caused some paint disasters haha but it sucks when it goes wrong
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So why not just spray it with hammered black and be done?
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I bet the paint swelled up and wrinkled and so forth would look like crap.
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So why not just spray it with hammered black and be done?
That's what I'd do... :confused:
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So why not just spray it with hammered black and be done?
That's what I'd do... :confused:
The hammered is oil-based. Still no good over this water-based Rustoleum Painter's Touch primer crap.
I could do the hammered, but I'd still have to remove the water-based primer before applying. I've already got about $150 worth of decent oil-based polyurethane and clearcoat that I was going to roll on and sand, so I am going to strip the primer, redo with oil-based primer and keep going.
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Chris have you asked the paint store if there is a sealer available sometimes you can apply a sealer later in between 2 incompatible paint layers to make it work. If available it would save you a ton of work.
Check at some automotive paint/ body repair supply stores
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The hammered is oil-based. Still no good over this water-based Rustoleum Painter's Touch primer crap.
I could do the hammered, but I'd still have to remove the water-based primer before applying. I've already got about $150 worth of decent oil-based polyurethane and clearcoat that I was going to roll on and sand, so I am going to strip the primer, redo with oil-based primer and keep going.
Hammerite (the real stuff, not sure about Rustolium brand) doesn't need a primer.
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Seems to me it is disolving and bubbling up his primer
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Seems to me it is disolving and bubbling up his primer
Not quite at the stage where the primer is bubbling up or anything, Art (which is good)
I'll ask around and see if I can find a sealer I can use as a barrier. I need to use a sealer anyway, technically.
Water based paints/primers are apparently softer than oil based paints and will expand and contract differently. You end up getting cracks, etc. Even with the sealer, given the nearly ever-present California sun, I could still be looking at trouble throwing a water-based primer product in the mix.
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I think a lot of that depends on how thick you applied the primer if its a pretty thin coat in should not shrink to much. Now if you put it on thick to make up for surface inperfections it will shrink no matter what kinda primer/ filler you used
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I may go the sealer route like Art suggested. There are a variety of primer/sealers that are latex water-based but state that you can use oil or water based paints over them (companies are probably like, "oh yeah, you can 'use' them over oil based paints...didn't say that the results would hold up for long, though :naughty:") Anyway, Kilz and a few other brands claim to allow for this. I'll check with an auto paint store to see what other products are out there.
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I went to a paint/autopaint store in Burbank. They recommended using "Bullseye" 1-2-3 by Zinnser. Its a primer-sealer that is water-based but somehow works underneath or over oil-based paints. They mixed up a can for me thats in a dark gunmetal grey.
So looks like Art saved the day on that one. I figured I was looking at 2-3 days removing the existing waterbased primer and then redoing the job with an oil-based primer. So, thanks Art :beers:
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Well Chris when your Jeep is a nice shiny black and looks purty then its thank you time haha
I learned some of these things from a buddy on Long Island that had a paint/ autobody shop
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Okay, so my Jeep is a little worse for wear paint wise, and I've been lurking reading this thread since it was small.
I have a 93' YJ that is currently black, with some serious fading in a couple of places. (More likely than not thin painting from the factory). I just picked up a set of TJ flares for it which I need to sand the green paint off of and repaint black, and I was thinking about doing a full job on the Jeep sometime in the near future.
Reading on all this hammered vs. normal black, and it makes sense to me having the hammered to cover up imperfections... and it really seems to look good from what I've seen. If anyone has a comparison or a picture of the hammered black vs flat black, I would really appreciate seeing it.
But right now I've repainted the front bumper with flat black, and really like the look. I'm going to continue that on my flares, since I need to paint them anyhow.
But trying to decide between the flat (which I like) and the hammered (which I really don't have any experience with)... or even just the good ole gloss black is being tricky for me. Figure you guys, having done it, might have some input.
I don't care too much about making it look showroom... but I want it all the same color without rust or fading easily.
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Okay, so my Jeep is a little worse for wear paint wise, and I've been lurking reading this thread since it was small.
I have a 93' YJ that is currently black, with some serious fading in a couple of places. (More likely than not thin painting from the factory). I just picked up a set of TJ flares for it which I need to sand the green paint off of and repaint black, and I was thinking about doing a full job on the Jeep sometime in the near future.
Reading on all this hammered vs. normal black, and it makes sense to me having the hammered to cover up imperfections... and it really seems to look good from what I've seen. If anyone has a comparison or a picture of the hammered black vs flat black, I would really appreciate seeing it.
But right now I've repainted the front bumper with flat black, and really like the look. I'm going to continue that on my flares, since I need to paint them anyhow.
But trying to decide between the flat (which I like) and the hammered (which I really don't have any experience with)... or even just the good ole gloss black is being tricky for me. Figure you guys, having done it, might have some input.
I don't care too much about making it look showroom... but I want it all the same color without rust or fading easily.
GO with Hammerite Hammered and be done with it. :thumbsup:
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Sanded down the latex primer, then spent parts of a couple of days masking and applying 2 coats of Bullseye 1-2-3 (its white, but I had it tinted at a Burbank Paint store). Thanks again to Art! :biggrin:
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another shot
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Why did you have pigment added to primer?
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The Bullseye 1-2-3 Primer/Sealer is White. My paint is Gloss Black. The tint aids in the reduction of the number of coats of the topcoat paint needed for "coverage" in my case.
If I was going to do a white topcoat, I wouldn't bother tinting obviously
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This roll paint project aint a good idea if you have a short attention span. :lol:
After the Evercoat, I did 2 coats of white primer, then sanded. Then I did 2 coats of sealer (Bullseye 1-2-3, the Tintable kind designed for dark topcoats) to serve as a barrier between the water based primer I inadvertently used and the polyurethane, oil-based top coat paint I have.
So I am sitting around getting ready to sand the sealer this evening -- you know just to get out any orange peel and make it a nice smooth surface for the topcoats.
I didn't think much of sanding the sealer because the guy who did the white corvair w/Rustoleum had apparently sanded down his primer before topcoating. Me, I was thinking: "Primer/sealer, what's the difference? you just want a smooth surface for the topcoats."
Well, according to some forums, "Sealer" is an "animal" different from primer. Some suggest that when you "sand" sealer, you effectively "break-the-seal." So you may not want to sand it.
I am kind of on the fence on this one. But I am probably going to end up leaving my coats of sealer "as-is" and just get on with the topcoats. May not be quite as smooth or could be ok and I actually find that the unsanded Sealer provies a better bond with the topcoat paint. :bore: