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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: drunkencityworker on December 12, 2009, 07:03:44 AM
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OK Well its time to start getting the pieces together for a regear and I figure while in there why not Make my 8.8 the best it could be.
1. Does anyone run c clip eliminators? I am not sure but I believe using stock 9 inch parts elimination of c clips will give you worry free full floater action. without having to woryy about axles wondering out the tubes.
2. Does anyone run chromo? Or is chromo complete overkill with the 8.8?
3. What kind of rear traction device should I use? Spool,welded? Can a lsd be welded? Has anyone stuffed the clutch packs? How hard is the detroit on the street? Or is this one place where I need to bite the bullet and pick up a selectable?
I use my yj as a daily driver and I wheel once a month in all different enviroments. The most tho at cliffs insane terrain. mucky hill climbs
and gullies
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You'll be fine on stock shafts, especially with the 4 banger.
No way to make an 8.8 a FF axle.
It's a good idea to weld the tubes to the center section.
I am very happy with my Detroit. Doesn't get much better unless you go with a selectable which I don't feel is necessary in the rear.
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2. Does anyone run chromo? Or is chromo complete overkill with the 8.8?
dunno if it's overkill or not but chromos are probably the strongest, so if you plan to get new shafts the price diff is not that much and imo it's worth it (at least in my case on the D35 there was an $80 difference between high strength steel and chromo axles)
3. What kind of rear traction device should I use? Spool,welded? Can a lsd be welded?
depending how the lsd is built. Most of them i would guess you cannot weld - my auburn has the spider gears just like an open diff so in that case you could put weld on the teeth but i would suggest against that (wouldn't be too good for a DD).
Does yours already have an lsd on it?
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Since the 8.8 has the same size outer axle tube as a 44 (The disk brake bracket from an explorer fits the 44)
Has anybody tried putting a 44 full floater kit on it? Worst case you'd have to order a pair of custom axles with the correct splines on each end.
Dave
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Since the 8.8 has the same size outer axle tube as a 44 (The disk brake bracket from an explorer fits the 44)
Has anybody tried putting a 44 full floater kit on it? Worst case you'd have to order a pair of custom axles with the correct splines on each end.
Dave
Not to get too side tracked but the 8.8" uses the same flange bolt pattern as the 44?
Also, since Full-Floater kits aren't the current fad, complete kits are hard to locate. I've thought about getting one. The Full-Floater kit not a 8.8".
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OK.. It is lsd. The tubes are welded.
I can always goto junkyard and pull an open carrier.
Has anyone stuffed the clutch packs in a lsd.
Does anyone run a lunchbox style locker
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I'd drop coin on a manual hub conversion before attempting a FF kit.
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If you are going to spend the money and drive on snow and ice, skip the the detroit idea, use an Ox or ARB if you can afford it, you will be much happier, for the axle shafts get chromos if you can afford it. That way no need for anything else fancy and will definitely hold up to your wheeling and make you a very happy man.
Stock axle shafts don't flex much and tend to shatter, whereas a good chromo shaft twists and then returns to it's original shape. As for the detroits even though they are an excellent locker, it's street manners even though acceptable to some, aren't really all that great. My yellow Jeep has ARB's and the other one I acquired has detroits, now if you like your Jeep to lift the left rear corner and barking tires and other funny stuff when you drive on wet pavement or snow and ice go detroit, if you like it to behave the way it did when it was stock buy an ARB or an OX locker. With those 2 mods you wheel happily and don't need anything else, save maybe for a truss for the rear axle so you will not bend the tubes
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I'd drop coin on a manual hub conversion before attempting a FF kit.
The manual hub kit is a full floater... :)
The 44 Floater kit uses the spindles off a Front D44 axle and standard hubs or drive plates.
Dave
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now if you like your Jeep to lift the left rear corner and barking tires and other funny stuff when you drive on wet pavement or snow and ice go detroit
I live in the salt belt and experience none of these issues, can hardly tell it's back there.
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Its all driving style, some habits make the Detroit bark, some dont.
I personally hated driving rigs with them so I went ARB, others wouldn't have it any other way...
Dave
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What locker is better is like asking what color is prettier; but one thing everyone will agree on is that selectable lockers are literally invisible when unlocked (they literally ARE open diffs - in most cases - when unlocked).
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Red is purdiest.
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It is all a matter of what you want to life with and what you can afford. If you like the way it drives stock and have the extra couple of hundred dollars scour ebay for a deal on a ARB or an Ox. If you want to save a couple of hundred dollars, don't mind some funny road manners and like simplicity go detroit they all deliver the goods locked.
I personally favor the selectable lockers for a daily driver
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OK.. It is lsd. The tubes are welded.
I can always goto junkyard and pull an open carrier.
Has anyone stuffed the clutch packs in a lsd.
Does anyone run a lunchbox style locker
I run an Aussie locker in mine and I'm very happy with it. I live where there is snow and ice, I'm convinced that the people who complain about automatic lockers on the road have just never figured out how to drive with them. I don't notice it's there.
Running 35's, heavy wheels and having an agressive driving style I havn't managed to break anything in the 8.8 yet. My 8.8 is stock shafts with the tubes welded to the pumpkin.
My 8.8 and aussie stand up to doing stuff like this all day long. The D30 with aussie is also very happy and not breaking - but it did require alloy shafts and superjoints to survive.
(http://www.oldjeep.com/images/FlatfenderFarmsOct112009/PA110041s.JPG)
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Here's a link to an article on installing the Superior Super 88 kit. http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/techarticles/drivetrain/131_0610_super_88_axle_kit/index.html
This kit eliminates the c-clips, provides chrome moly axles, and replaces the outer bearings with Ford 9" style. The kit allows you to use 5 on 4.5 or 5 on 5.5 lug pattern. Cost is $500+ @ 4x4groupbuy.com
I don't really think you need this unless you are running 37s or larger. The Ford 8.8 with the stock axles is stronger than a 44 (assuming you weld the tubes to the housing). You're better off investing in a winch or upgrading your D30.
Welding Ford 8.8 axle tubes to housing (this is the procedure that we used)
Do this on a warm day if possible, to slow cooling
1. Set up axle on jack stands
2. Clean rust on axle tubes and adjacent housing
3. Connect ground onto axle tube, out board of joint – don’t have current running through bearings
4. Preheat with torch for about 1 minute, moving all around tube and adjacent housing – drive off all moisture
5. MIG weld with appropriate settings for ¼ steel – weld 1” pass, then rotate axle 180 and weld 1” pass, continue rotating axle and completing 1” passes until complete
6. Post heat weld with torch for about 1 minute, moving all around tube and adjacent housing
7. Move ground to other side of axle and repeat steps 4-6.
The goal is to allow the weld to cool gradually, so the cast housing doesn’t crack
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Here's a link to an article on installing the Superior Super 88 kit.
[...]
i think that's a similar kit to the D35 c-clip eliminator. From what i understand it's not a full floater (single bearing) so if you break an axle you could crawl for a little bit but won't hold for too long. I wish superior rather used the double bearings like the ones for the front hub and some sort of large nut on the back rather than the pressed on sleeve that holds the bearing on the axle.
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You are right, it's referred to as a "semi-floater". With the disc brake 8.8s you also get the rotor to help hold the wheel on - for a bit... I have an old Ford pickup with the 9" and there is a plate (with 4 retainer bolts) that holds the bearing in place - better than the Superior solution.
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You are right, it's referred to as a "semi-floater". With the disc brake 8.8s you also get the rotor to help hold the wheel on - for a bit... I have an old Ford pickup with the 9" and there is a plate (with 4 retainer bolts) that holds the bearing in place - better than the Superior solution.
i see. for some reason my common sense tells me that another problem would be the lack of support (once the axle broke there is no support point at the end of it in the spider gear), so the axle would "want" to rotate like this ^\ (looking at the vehicle from the back and that is the driver side if that makes sense) and not have enough support due to single bearing (not sure if i managed to put in writing what i am trying to explain). Anyway, considering the price difference and not getting a full-floater i would just go with cromoly axles rather - that was pretty much what made me get the D35 cromolys rather than the c-clip eliminator from Superior.
someone mentioned warn manual disconnect hubs - probably the only real full floater kit out there, but comes at a premium price.
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someone mentioned warn manual disconnect hubs - probably the only real full floater kit out there, but comes at a premium price.
And the locking hubs are more prone to exploding than the shafts are. The only reason for using the warn kit is if you want to be able to flat tow without removing the rear drive shaft.
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You can use drive plates instead of the hubs,
that way you don't have the hub to worry about.
Drive plate is just a plug with splines inside to accept the end of the axle.
No moving parts.
Dave
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And the locking hubs are more prone to exploding than the shafts are. The only reason for using the warn kit is if you want to be able to flat tow without removing the rear drive shaft.
... or use the neutral in your t-case (unless you meant something else that went over my head)
would the wheel fall off if the locking hub explodes?
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... or use the neutral in your t-case (unless you meant something else that went over my head)
would the wheel fall off if the locking hub explodes?
Neutral in the tcase locks the front and rear shafts together in a 231. Not the best flat towing situation.
Nope, wheel doesn't fall off if the locking hub explodes. Wheel doesn't fall off an 8.8 if the shaft breaks either - unless you have drum brakes.
I have yet to see a broken 8.8 shaft, and we have many club members running them.
Drive flanges would be preferable to locking hubs on the rear, but if you are needing more strength than stock 8.8 parts - it's almost as cheap to step up to a D60.
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On the dana 60, even though they look big the pumkin only hangs 1" lower than a dana44
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On the dana 60, even though they look big the pumkin only hangs 1" lower than a dana44
And you can shave them pretty easily. The D60 I built for my CJ actually had more clearance than a stock D44.
(http://oldjeep.com/images/winter0304projects/D60%20004.jpg)
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Neutral in the tcase locks the front and rear shafts together in a 231. Not the best flat towing situation.
Nope, wheel doesn't fall off if the locking hub explodes. Wheel doesn't fall off an 8.8 if the shaft breaks either - unless you have drum brakes.
I have yet to see a broken 8.8 shaft, and we have many club members running them.
Drive flanges would be preferable to locking hubs on the rear, but if you are needing more strength than stock 8.8 parts - it's almost as cheap to step up to a D60.
i see what you mean.
My point was: rather than the c-clip eliminator go with cromoly as it won't be safe to drive it back home anyway with a broken shaft in there so not really an upgrade other than being able to swap a shaft w/o having to take the c-clips out given that you would be able to remove the broken piece and you're not worried about chunks of metal that could be left in there. still imo it's not safe to drive with a broken shaft even though the caliper would hold the wheel in (with or without the c-clip axles) - on the other hand with the locking hubs you can drive home if you brake a shaft (or if the locking hub gets busted) - that's what i had in mind when i mentioned the full floaters (although i didn't know that's a weak link with the locking hubs). And of course the D60 would be stronger - the bigger the better in this case but you give out some ponies the bigger the moving parts in the drivetrain so since for our 4 cylinders that is prime i think you need to find a good balance between size and strength - all this is based considering that you use it as a DD and that mpg and acceleration is a factor for you. If its an exclusive trail rig then yeah D60 all the way :)
so in his case my thinking is save some ca$h and go with cromoly (will be stronger than the stock and like you said they are not prone to braking anyway).
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On the dana 60, even though they look big the pumkin only hangs 1" lower than a dana44
Yeah, but that would be equivalent of swapping from 37" tires to 35" (or 25" to 33")...
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I have seen some shaved 8.8s...I would love to do that..I just dont have the nads...I would be afraid of ruining it. I was thinking of taking a grinder to the lip it has to help it slide over stuff easier.
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I have seen some shaved 8.8s...I would love to do that..I just dont have the nads...I would be afraid of ruining it. I was thinking of taking a grinder to the lip it has to help it slide over stuff easier.
Grinding the lip off so there is nothing to hang up on is probably more important.
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does any one have pics of smoothing out the lip so I dont take too much
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does any one have pics of smoothing out the lip so I dont take too much
I don't know of any pictures offhand but usually you use the diff cover as reference and try to make it so the housing flows smoothly to the diffcover. You don't want whatever is sliding across the housing to be able to grab the cover and rip it off.
***edit: Now that I think about it, you can't shave the 8.8 completely smooth with that huge ring. You could add a skid though...
Here's Chris Overacker's 8.8". Chris is the original owner of M.O.R.E.
http://www.code4x4.com/projects/axle_88/axle_88.html
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That is an impressive setup!
(http://www.code4x4.com/images/projects/axle_88/F88_16.jpg)