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General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: stan98tj on May 23, 2010, 03:49:00 PM
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couldnt decide if this was the best place to post this..whatever, it's jeep related and all. now, onto the point of my post.
came across this video on youtube and after watching it and i just wanted to make sure i wasnt the only one who had at least 3 thoughts when it was over:
1. If that angle isnt working, take it head on or change your approach
2. Driver...maybe you would like to give it a bit more power?
3. if 4hi isnt getting it done, perhaps 4low?
Now, im not one to think my Jeep is the greatest rig around especially given the company provided by this forum (Art, Mozman, JJ to name a few of the many) but im pretty sure my little 4 banger would own that hill. I cant see myself sitting at the mouth of a trail and my buddy in a Discovery behind me and saying....well i guess im not going wheeling today, i just cant make it from the street to the trail over this curb and hill....
oops..almost forgot here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLBg4-dI05A&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLBg4-dI05A&feature=related)
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1. It's a good way to get stuck on the transfer case skid.
2. What he needed to do is to try to applying the e-brake or even the regular brakes. If you apply it just enough to stop the free side from spinning he may have been able to climb it.
3. He would be going too slow and would still end up not getting any further.
Also, keep in mind how much the Disco had to work to get up the to point the Jeep was at. Once the tires lost traction the traction control kicks it and basically give you lockers by applying the brakes on the free spinning side. This is one of the advantages of having 4-wheel ABS with traction control.
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driver problem - he was getting stuck with front right and rear left in the air and with no lockers would spin those wheels - needs to look for grip (different angle).
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1. It's a good way to get stuck on the transfer case skid.
2. What he needed to do is to try to applying the e-brake or even the regular brakes. If you apply it just enough to stop the free side from spinning he may have been able to climb it.
3. He would be going too slow and would still end up not getting any further.
Also, keep in mind how much the Disco had to work to get up the to point the Jeep was at. Once the tires lost traction the traction control kicks it and basically give you lockers by applying the brakes on the free spinning side. This is one of the advantages of having 4-wheel ABS with traction control.
I dunno, still looks like a pretty harmless incline. im almost quite certain he could make it if he just came at it from where the guy in the brown shirt is standing. In fact, im pretty certain ive made it over steeper grades. I recently had a situation on a large rock like this where the back wheel spun free and a locker would have helped...i backed off and came at it from a different approach...which bested the results my buddy's lifted RamCharger earned a few days earlier. Then again maybe it is harder then it looks, i still think he could have made it though....
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he needed to take a more straight on approach, would have gone right up and over it, just need to be careful to not become a beached whale.. the angle he took made him put 2 wheels in the air which is a no-no for open diffed vehicles. reminds me of when i first got my jeep runnign and played around with some similar terrain at work, open diffs makes things more challenging but just have to pick the correct line and use proper amount of momentum...
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he needed to take a more straight on approach, would have gone right up and over it, just need to be careful to not become a beached whale.. the angle he took made him put 2 wheels in the air which is a no-no for open diffed vehicles. reminds me of when i first got my jeep runnign and played around with some similar terrain at work, open diffs makes things more challenging but just have to pick the correct line and use proper amount of momentum...
def agree with that. unless there was a reason that we cant see from this angle that prevented a straight forward climb-that would be the best route up. with 32s and stock suspension, his t-case skid is still tucked under and not dropped, so that betters his chances of clearing and not dragging belly and getting beached.
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1. It's a good way to get stuck on the transfer case skid.
2. What he needed to do is to try to applying the e-brake or even the regular brakes. If you apply it just enough to stop the free side from spinning he may have been able to climb it.
3. He would be going too slow and would still end up not getting any further.
Also, keep in mind how much the Disco had to work to get up the to point the Jeep was at. Once the tires lost traction the traction control kicks it and basically give you lockers by applying the brakes on the free spinning side. This is one of the advantages of having 4-wheel ABS with traction control.
+1
but I wouldn't trade a mechanical locker for abs traction control!!
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Even a cheap lunchbox locker would have gotten him through... That was not a tough climb if he would have though it through (although I agree that taking it staright on was probably not the best option).
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I think it's more of a open diffs VS. traction aids. Not which line was better. It's hard to see if the crossmember was hitting or not.
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Even a cheap lunchbox locker would have gotten him through... That was not a tough climb if he would have though it through (although I agree that taking it staright on was probably not the best option).
the bump/hill/incline that leads onto the trail doesnt seem too high. Further, he has 32s-so increased clearance, and his t-case hasnt been dropped. i just cant see him bottoming out on that. then again, videos like these turn everyone into the Michael Schumacher of the trails with "oh i would do this or that.." but still, im not really convinced he couldnt make it up...he probably works for land rover lol
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I saw myself struggling there. :hump: (Figuratively)
I bet if he aired down a bit that it might have helped and I agree with Jeffy on the e-brake. Watched my friend crawling over rocks with open diffs in his 88 cherokee just by using his e-brake. (reverse, forward, reverse, then he had enough friction on his back drums to just about lock-em)
I don't see how that's supposed to be comparative. Apples to oranges if you ask me. If they were going open diff on the jeep, should have been open on the land rover without any traction system either. It's look showing off how fast your sports car is against a family sedan.
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The Jeep will outperform that Land Rover on 9 out of 10 obstacles.
It's amazing what a longer wheelbase or wider track will give you on certain obstacles...and that seems to be the case here. Bad line and too short of a wheel base...I would be hesitant at first as well, but he simply could have gunned it a little more and momentum would have gotten him over. A little intimidating when your rig is rocking like that though.
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It looks like a 2wd pickup could make it through, just a little more head on and give it more gas while the rear tires are still on the pavement. His first approach looked the best, just a bit more gas and he would have made it.
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the bump/hill/incline that leads onto the trail doesnt seem too high. Further, he has 32s-so increased clearance, and his t-case hasnt been dropped. i just cant see him bottoming out on that. then again, videos like these turn everyone into the Michael Schumacher of the trails with "oh i would do this or that.." but still, im not really convinced he couldnt make it up...he probably works for land rover lol
Doesn't matter how much lift or how big his tires are if they're not touching the ground. He's got it where it's balancing between two tires on opposite sides. That's the problem with open-differentials. When one side is in the air all the power goes to that side.
Applying the brakes will help slow that tire down and transfer some power to the other side. If he tried that he might have been able to climb it. Traction-Control on the Discovery basically acts like a locker.
Yes, the Jeep could have taken a straighter line. Not to mention he could have used more speed but that wasn't the point of the video.
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The Jeep will outperform that Land Rover on 9 out of 10 obstacles.
It's amazing what a longer wheelbase or wider track will give you on certain obstacles...and that seems to be the case here. Bad line and too short of a wheel base...I would be hesitant at first as well, but he simply could have gunned it a little more and momentum would have gotten him over. A little intimidating when your rig is rocking like that though.
LRs (esp well equiped ones) can certainly keep up with jeeps and many can certainly give us a run for our money. Most LR owners find that a mere tire upgrade/change is more than enough to obtain good results on the trail. In this video what i have to say is, you do the best with what you have. Dont have lockers? change your approach. Even if this was supposed to show traction control vs open diff, it should have at least shown the jeep makin it up there. Just because he couldnt take it on that line (though i believe a little power would have gone a long way) doesnt mean it couldnt do it on a more favorable angle.
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The Jeep will outperform that Land Rover on 9 out of 10 obstacles.
It's amazing what a longer wheelbase or wider track will give you on certain obstacles...
its also amazing what a narrow track and shot wheelbase will do on others/ to make it totaly different.. you can take a willys and drive around a lot of what the big jeeps are having to smash over and you have more lines to choose from... but ya there are times when different things are more optimal. and alot of wheeling performance is determined by the driver...
and the first land rover was based on a jeep... :stick:
ya im obviously bias but im loving it lol... :koolaid: :spam:
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What about traction control of the Rover? It is computerized. You won't see it spinning the wheels as its applied through the brake system to hold the spinning tire and let the torque go to the other wheel. The control does not let all the torque go from spinning wheel to non-spinning wheel.
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Doesn't matter how much lift or how big his tires are if they're not touching the ground. He's got it where it's balancing between two tires on opposite sides. That's the problem with open-differentials. When one side is in the air all the power goes to that side.
That's what I was thinking. Also Land Rovers are known for having a crapload of suspension travel.
A few years ago at Wellsville, OH I pulled out a stuck Rubicon with the Ranger I had at the time (no offense). Dude simply high-centered it, admittedly not an easy thing to do with a Wrangler, and all the lockers in the world aren't going to help you when the tires aren't touching the ground.
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That's what I was thinking. Also Land Rovers are known for having a crapload of suspension travel.
A few years ago at Wellsville, OH I pulled out a stuck Rubicon with the Ranger I had at the time (no offense). Dude simply high-centered it, admittedly not an easy thing to do with a Wrangler, and all the lockers in the world aren't going to help you when the tires aren't touching the ground.
I wouldn't say a crap load. I doubt it's more then the TJ either. You can see the tires spin then the Traction Control kicking in. That's a HUGE advantage.
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Well they should have done a comparison with a Grand Cherokee with traction control, that works pretty well on those also. But then again I have pulled a range rover out of a spot where my Jeep did not even begin to think it was difficult
Also here is a video of one of my buddies doing his thing with his TJ with 2 open diffs, that boy goes places with it that a lot of other people struggle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZjs2WAbWls
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sweet video.. what size tires does that gc have?
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Well they should have done a comparison with a Grand Cherokee with traction control, that works pretty well on those also. But then again I have pulled a range rover out of a spot where my Jeep did not even begin to think it was difficult
Also here is a video of one of my buddies doing his thing with his TJ with 2 open diffs, that boy goes places with it that a lot of other people struggle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZjs2WAbWls
Yeah but that comes with experience. I know a few guy's who are like that and are really good as feeling their way around. Actually, many who travel around the world prefer to have open-diffs so there is less of a chance of breaking. They don't bother to beef up axles and what not since parts availability become nil, when you're half way round the world in some remote part of SA or Russia.
Traction-control is good until it isn't. Too much that can break. The computers, harnesses, brake solenoids, etc... Open-diffs or lockers are way more dependable.
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Traction-control is good until it isn't. Too much that can break. The computers, harnesses, brake solenoids, etc... Open-diffs or lockers are way more dependable.
My '08 Sport Trac has traction control. In all the snow we had this winter I friggen' hated it. When all four wheels are driving through 2' of snow all it does is make the engine take a crap. So I spent most of February with the traction control shut off and locked in 4-Hi, and I do mean every day on the street, which essentially meant open axles front and rear. I did get more aggressive A/T tires for it last year, so it wasn't as bad as it could have been. I was missing my old Sport Trac with limited-slip a lot. Just gas and go.
My idea of electronic traction control is a switch that turns on a locker. :beers:
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My '08 Sport Trac has traction control. In all the snow we had this winter I friggen' hated it. When all four wheels are driving through 2' of snow all it does is make the engine take a crap. So I spent most of February with the traction control shut off and locked in 4-Hi, and I do mean every day on the street, which essentially meant open axles front and rear. I did get more aggressive A/T tires for it last year, so it wasn't as bad as it could have been. I was missing my old Sport Trac with limited-slip a lot. Just gas and go.
My idea of electronic traction control is a switch that turns on a locker. :beers:
Things like dirt, gravel and snow can trick traction control/ABS into thinking you're slipping when really you're not. I really hate most ABS as they are set to kick-in too soon.
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Well they should have done a comparison with a Grand Cherokee with traction control, that works pretty well on those also. But then again I have pulled a range rover out of a spot where my Jeep did not even begin to think it was difficult
Also here is a video of one of my buddies doing his thing with his TJ with 2 open diffs, that boy goes places with it that a lot of other people struggle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZjs2WAbWls
Very nice crawling. I know a guy that runs his YJ with open diffs and goes everywhere. It's always instructive to watch how the does things. He once told me a YJ (with open diffs) won't climb anything unless at least one axle has both tires hitting straight on, so you have to find a line that allows that. He also said a TJ is much better at climbing without the axles perfectly straight on due to the greater flex.
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Well they should have done a comparison with a Grand Cherokee with traction control, that works pretty well on those also. But then again I have pulled a range rover out of a spot where my Jeep did not even begin to think it was difficult
Also here is a video of one of my buddies doing his thing with his TJ with 2 open diffs, that boy goes places with it that a lot of other people struggle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZjs2WAbWls
Now THAT was impressive!! only goes to show, that the dude in my original video could have climbed that berm if he had taken a different line.
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Now THAT was impressive!! only goes to show, that the dude in my original video could have climbed that berm if he had taken a different line.
The video was to show how superior the LR was in a biased test, that's all.
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The video was to show how superior the LR was in a biased test, that's all.
ill agree with that.