4bangerjp.com
General Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: karan on February 16, 2011, 08:51:03 PM
-
Hi 4Bangers,
I have a 2000 Jeep tj/Wrangler 2.5 liter.
I was looking to get a firepower ignition system but when i checked online on firepowers site and morris 4X4 website
its specified as
"Firepower Ignition Kit
1991-1999 2.5L 4-Cylinder Engines"
But then i went to 4wd.com and they specify the same kit as
"Firepower Ignition Kit
1991-95 YJ Wrangler
1997-02 TJ Wrangler
2000 XJ Cherokee
2.5L 4 cylinder engine"
Question:: whaich info is true or does any one know if the kit would work with 2000, 2001 and 2002 jeep tjs with 2.5 liter .
thanks alot in advance to the readers and helpers. cheers.
-
As long as it's 91 or newer it should work on any year.
-
Thanks FourBangerYJ, appreciate it.
If any one has successfully installed it please let me know.
-
like he ^ said, and only for the 2.5L not for the 2.4L
Jeffy is running it for quite a while i think and he's happy with it.
-
Thanks FourBangerYJ, appreciate it.
If any one has successfully installed it please let me know.
No problem. I am running the kit. So far so good. Just make sure you look at the spark plug boots to get the right end on the spark plug and the right end on the dist. cap. If you get them backwards (they are labeled on the boots) the Jeep won't start...or so I am told :whistle: :uhoh:
-
I just looked on www.4wd.com and they do have a kit for the 2.4L engine.
Note the following for the 2.5L kits:
Note: 1991-1992 and 1998-1999 Jeeps require a wiring harness adapter for this coil to work with
the factory wiring. See description below.
http://www.performancedistributors.com/jeep4.0.htm
-
Thanks a bunch 4Bangers family,
Now that i am guided in the right direction, i will order it today and post the results of change in performance soon :biggrin:
-
I just looked on www.4wd.com and they do have a kit for the 2.4L engine.
Note the following for the 2.5L kits:
Note: 1991-1992 and 1998-1999 Jeeps require a wiring harness adapter for this coil to work with
the factory wiring. See description below.
http://www.performancedistributors.com/jeep4.0.htm
+1 on the wiring adapter
-
I just looked on www.4wd.com and they do have a kit for the 2.4L engine.
Note the following for the 2.5L kits:
Note: 1991-1992 and 1998-1999 Jeeps require a wiring harness adapter for this coil to work with
the factory wiring. See description below.
http://www.performancedistributors.com/jeep4.0.htm
91-92 adapter is only for the 4.0L, I don't think anything changed on the 2.5L harness between 91 and 95 years other than maybe the wire colors.
-
91-92 adapter is only for the 4.0L, I don't think anything changed on the 2.5L harness between 91 and 95 years other than maybe the wire colors.
6 set up will not work with a 4 ! i have not seen a drop in system for 2.5 ...i got a distributor for 1985 ..wiring harness from ford for distributor ...msd-6al box ... distributor is timing at 90* from 1 [renix] to right .. unplug both wires to renix system but the one with 3 wires -yellow one is ignition switch hot ... i have heard of many how tried the msd wiring way and blow brains back to France! i am now working on a fix for lose of the vacuum advance .....
-
I put the firepower in my '01 and love it. I did have to use the adapter harness, even though their website said I didn't. Of course, plugging in the coil was the last thing I did, so when I discovered it wouldn't fit, I had to un-do everything so I could drive to work in the morning. When I called them about the plug, the guy on the phone said it would not work on an '01, so go ahead and send it all back for a full refund - even though everything had been installed. A week later I checked my card and the refund from them was $70.00 less than it should have been.
I called about the lack of full refund and was told it was because the wires were "used", so they were sending them back to me. When I explained the situation, the person i was speaking with was shocked that someone there said that it wouldn't work. To make up for their mistake, they not only sent everything back to me on their dime, but included the adapter wire at no charge. I guess it evened out with my costs sending it back to them.
I'd recommend ordering straight from their website. That way you can deal with them direct if there are any issues.
-
6 set up will not work with a 4 ! i have not seen a drop in system for 2.5 ...i got a distributor for 1985 ..wiring harness from ford for distributor ...msd-6al box ... distributor is timing at 90* from 1 [renix] to right .. unplug both wires to renix system but the one with 3 wires -yellow one is ignition switch hot ... i have heard of many how tried the msd wiring way and blow brains back to France! i am now working on a fix for lose of the vacuum advance .....
random post again... you didn't bother reading all the posts.
nobody said the 6 will work in a 4 cyl, there is a drop in system for the 2.5L, did you click on that link and scroll down, there's a kit right there that includes the cap, rotor, coil and wires (not for your year but the discussion was for a 2000 2.5L TJ)
CLICK HERE (http://www.performancedistributors.com/jeep4.0.htm) and scroll down to where it says 2.5KIT (that's the part number)
-
I put the firepower in my '01 and love it. I did have to use the adapter harness, even though their website said I didn't. Of course, plugging in the coil was the last thing I did, so when I discovered it wouldn't fit, I had to un-do everything so I could drive to work in the morning. When I called them about the plug, the guy on the phone said it would not work on an '01, so go ahead and send it all back for a full refund - even though everything had been installed. A week later I checked my card and the refund from them was $70.00 less than it should have been.
I called about the lack of full refund and was told it was because the wires were "used", so they were sending them back to me. When I explained the situation, the person i was speaking with was shocked that someone there said that it wouldn't work. To make up for their mistake, they not only sent everything back to me on their dime, but included the adapter wire at no charge. I guess it evened out with my costs sending it back to them.
I'd recommend ordering straight from their website. That way you can deal with them direct if there are any issues.
Thanks SharpXmen, after reading your post i called both 4wd and performance distributors.
performance distributor guy confirmed that i would indeed need an adapter.
yes the thing itself wont work on 2000 2.5 tj, so i ordered adapter as well Part# 31728-AH
i also requested the 4wd.com guys to remove the wrong info from their site.
anyways i will post my performance experience shortly.
what type of performance gains both in hp and mpg did you notice SharpXmen?
-
Sorry i meant to ask the question from mrcabinet.
-
Sorry i meant to ask the question from mrcabinet.
no worries, good luck with the project and let us know how it goes.
-
The performance gains are the same as anything you do to the 2.5 - a little by itself, but when combined with all the other things you can do it all adds up. I noticed that on a couple of hills on my daily commute, I can hold it at 70 now instead of the speed slowly going down. I don't have to keep the pedal mashed to the floor all the time either. Also, the exhaust tone is a little deeper and throatier with less droning on the highway.The biggest difference was a gain of 1.5 MPG! At that rate it should pay for itself in about two years.
All in all, I think the two things that made the biggest difference in performance were the 62mm throttle body / spacer and an electric fan. The PD ignition is a nice compliment to everything else.
-
The performance gains are the same as anything you do to the 2.5 - a little by itself, but when combined with all the other things you can do it all adds up. I noticed that on a couple of hills on my daily commute, I can hold it at 70 now instead of the speed slowly going down. I don't have to keep the pedal mashed to the floor all the time either. Also, the exhaust tone is a little deeper and throatier with less droning on the highway.The biggest difference was a gain of 1.5 MPG! At that rate it should pay for itself in about two years.
All in all, I think the two things that made the biggest difference in performance were the 62mm throttle body / spacer and an electric fan. The PD ignition is a nice compliment to everything else.
Thanks again, 1.5 mpg is noticeable gain and the smooth ride is also a plus. i am already getting a 62 mm but dont know which electric fan to go for, which one you have and what else i need with the fan, i was thinking of a taurus one but then i think i would need some more stuff to control fan speed. i am so tempted to get an electric fan but hate to pay 150 $ just to have it installed. (my local calgarian-canada mechanic gave me that quote)
-
Not sure about needing an adapter since I didn't need one but I'd go with what Steve says. (Steve is the owner of PD and the guy I talked to when he needed some feedback) The only difference I found with the 2.5L kits is that the TJ's use a different rotor.
I'd buy the kit from PD and not 4WD though. PD are good guy's who back their stuff.
-
Jeffy, thanks for the input, yeah i had already ordered from 4wd and they are bunch of thieves. first they had wrong info on their site that prompted me to order considering the price.
after i found it it wont work for my year that they said on their site would work.
they said our site is wrong and it wont work you ll have to buy another item for 30 bucks, and said we have already shipped and billed you.
you can return at your own cost-
so i had to buy the other item.
4wd.com sucks big time!!!!
-
Can you mark refused on the package and force them to take it back? Giving you a credit?
I've ordered from 4wd.com dozens of times and it's always been a great experience. Not to mention they support our local jeep club and offer us a 10% discount.
-
Can you mark refused on the package and force them to take it back? Giving you a credit?
I've ordered from 4wd.com dozens of times and it's always been a great experience. Not to mention they support our local jeep club and offer us a 10% discount.
that's great for your club but i had mixed experience with them. Some were good, some horrible as when i called and ordered specifically a certain brand and they send me they're rebranded/repackaged equivalent and I had to plead with them for free refund on my cost of shipping back the items. Other times i had missing items in the box and although i called 3 or 4 times and I was promised they go out next day took 2 months to receive (not exaggerating).
on the positive side I called twice for a price match and got the refund (after receiving the order), so i guess it's give and take so to speak.
-
The problem I have with 4WD is that they aren't the same company as they once were. Before they were a good mom & pop type of store. They were never able to compete with q-Tech but I actually preferred 4WD over Q-tech. Because of the economy, 4WD was bought out by Transamerican Auto Parts. This is the same company that owned Steel Horse and 4 Wheel Parts Warehouse. They also acquired Smittybilt which replaces Steel Horse as their marketing brand. I hate their tiered pricing and the local 4WPW typically suck. I'd imagine TAP bought 4WDH because of their location.
-
Yeah i am not ordering again from them,
Btw, i called performance distributors and asked for what they suggest in spark plugs to be used with the firepower ignition kit.
the guy there sdaid use "autolite" autolite has so many different types and i called him again and asked which one, he suggested platinum, so i think i would go for autolite
double platinum spark plugs, he also said that changing the gap to 0.65 on this plug with give optimum results both in power and fuel economy.
-
On the gap...
Grimes is doing the head work on my engine this week (see Chad's TJ in projects for more information) and I asked about the spark gap and what I got in return was a sinister grin.
My interpretation of the dialogue that followed is this:
1) if it sparks it works
2) if it doesn't spark it doesn't work
3) spark plugs don't add power
4) upgraded ignition system with the same gap as a non-upgraded ignition system will generate a "hotter spark" but a "hotter spark" does not mean more power
5) shorter gap is "easier" to jump than a larger gap so an upgraded ignition system "maybe" more resistant to failures related to lack of spark
In the end I summarized that I had not wasted my money on the ignition system because it is in theory more reliable but that the only way it was going to add power would be if the old system wasn't actually working properly. I still didn't understand what his recommendation on gap really was but I gathered he didn't think it really mattered as long as we were getting spark.
-
Yeah i am not ordering again from them,
Btw, i called performance distributors and asked for what they suggest in spark plugs to be used with the firepower ignition kit.
the guy there sdaid use "autolite" autolite has so many different types and i called him again and asked which one, he suggested platinum, so i think i would go for autolite
double platinum spark plugs, he also said that changing the gap to 0.65 on this plug with give optimum results both in power and fuel economy.
Steve sent me Autolite Platinum which are the ones I'm using. They are gaped to 0.065" with no problems.
-
On the gap...
Grimes is doing the head work on my engine this week (see Chad's TJ in projects for more information) and I asked about the spark gap and what I got in return was a sinister grin.
My interpretation of the dialogue that followed is this:
1) if it sparks it works
2) if it doesn't spark it doesn't work
3) spark plugs don't add power
4) upgraded ignition system with the same gap as a non-upgraded ignition system will generate a "hotter spark" but a "hotter spark" does not mean more power
5) shorter gap is "easier" to jump than a larger gap so an upgraded ignition system "maybe" more resistant to failures related to lack of spark
In the end I summarized that I had not wasted my money on the ignition system because it is in theory more reliable but that the only way it was going to add power would be if the old system wasn't actually working properly. I still didn't understand what his recommendation on gap really was but I gathered he didn't think it really mattered as long as we were getting spark.
Although running a larger gap does not mean more power per say. The larger spark will create a larger ignition point which helps make for a more efficient burn. This is a known way to scavenge a bit more power from the engine. Add more air and more fuel and you'll take advantage of the larger spark. Even without that, you'll notice a bit of a difference. If the bare minimum was all the engine needed then there would be no reason to use a multi-coil system, found on most new engines rather then a single coil. Not to mention some engines having multiple spark plugs for an individual cylinder or like the MSD Ignition, sends out multiple sparks.
-
would be hard to test on the Jeep but if you look at airplane engines that have dual plugs and dual ignition systems turning one of them off would result in an rpm drop - it's understandable with magnetos since the spark is weaker on them compared to an electronic ignition, but the same thing happens on the airplane engines with electronic ignition and magneto (for the second set of plugs), turning the magneto off would result in an rpm drop, lot less than if you turn the electronic ignition off but there is still a difference - can't remember the exact numbers but i think was something like 250 rpm drop when only one magneto was on, in the mixed setup something like 50 to 100 rpm when only the electronic ignition was on - not as dramatic but looks like there is something to gain.
Now, there are some differences in the chamber on these engines and the plugs are at opposite sides in the chamber so i'm not sure how much of that would apply on the jeep 2.5, probably less obvious but there is something that could be gained. I wonder if a plug with multiple prongs would result in better gains.
-
Interesting I'm not certain really and have no experience to work with on the power gain but I do have electrical engineering experience and I believe that the spark is going to take the shortest route to ground and go to only one prong. This however also makes me think there could be some reliability gained by having more than one route to ground.
-
would be hard to test on the Jeep but if you look at airplane engines that have dual plugs and dual ignition systems turning one of them off would result in an rpm drop - it's understandable with magnetos since the spark is weaker on them compared to an electronic ignition, but the same thing happens on the airplane engines with electronic ignition and magneto (for the second set of plugs), turning the magneto off would result in an rpm drop, lot less than if you turn the electronic ignition off but there is still a difference - can't remember the exact numbers but i think was something like 250 rpm drop when only one magneto was on, in the mixed setup something like 50 to 100 rpm when only the electronic ignition was on - not as dramatic but looks like there is something to gain.
Now, there are some differences in the chamber on these engines and the plugs are at opposite sides in the chamber so i'm not sure how much of that would apply on the jeep 2.5, probably less obvious but there is something that could be gained. I wonder if a plug with multiple prongs would result in better gains.
Split prong like the Accel plugs? Never really noticed that much of a difference. Although I was only running those at 0.055" and not 0.065" like I am with the PD/AutoLite Platinum. There is a noticeable exhaust note change and on the high-end of the RPMs. I noticed it quickly when I swapped the ignition system on two 600 mile road trips (a week apart). At the high-end the engine was running a lot smoother. Now with that said, if you're driving around and not reving the engine much over 2000RPM, I don't think you'll notice much of a difference.
-
Split prong like the Accel plugs? Never really noticed that much of a difference. Although I was only running those at 0.055" and not 0.065" like I am with the PD/AutoLite Platinum. There is a noticeable exhaust note change and on the high-end of the RPMs. I noticed it quickly when I swapped the ignition system on two 600 mile road trips (a week apart). At the high-end the engine was running a lot smoother. Now with that said, if you're driving around and not reving the engine much over 2000RPM, I don't think you'll notice much of a difference.
don't know if the split prong, i was thinking more of the ones with 3 prongs on the body side (at the thread side) and not the electrode side - I'm thinking that if the distance is just normal might force 2 or maybe 3 sparks but i'm not sure.
-
Maybe, I'm sure somebody in a lab somewhere knows for sure. We need to remember we aren't talking big numbers here eitherway. It's definitely a matter of having all the little things right so you get a noticeable result. Some of our members have highly modified rigs and undoubtedly will have a different experience than those that have a more "stock" setup. Based on what I have seen the upgraded ignition system is a good purchase even if it did nothing more than provide more reliable performance.
-
don't know if the split prong, i was thinking more of the ones with 3 prongs on the body side (at the thread side) and not the electrode side - I'm thinking that if the distance is just normal might force 2 or maybe 3 sparks but i'm not sure.
Bosch Platinum Fusion
(http://image.caraudiomag.com/f/18177091+w750+st0/caep_0701_05_z+custom_parts+bosch_platinum_ir_fusion_spark_plugs.jpg)
-
Bosch Platinum Fusion
(http://image.caraudiomag.com/f/18177091+w750+st0/caep_0701_05_z+custom_parts+bosch_platinum_ir_fusion_spark_plugs.jpg)
something like that, the other ones i've seen were surrounding the electrode and they weren't platinum
how do you set the gap on these anyway (i guess you don't)
-
I have never liked those style plugs
-
An update, I installed the firepower kit today on my 2000 Jeep TJ 2.5.
i did need the wiring harness, so ones ordering for their 2000 TJs dont forget to order that separate part.
Jeep runs way smoother than before, i will take it for a longer ride on monday and will post again.
-
I am about to order this kit for my 2001 TJ 2.5. Just to confirm, it looks like I need the kit plus the adapter harness. I think the price has gone up a bit but having seen one of these kits in person, they are very well made. I am going to order the jeep FirePower site and it looks like it will be just over 200 $. Just wanted to confirm in advance but I will call them Monday.
Any other results from your install Karan? (if you are still around- old thread btw)
-
I probably have the oldest 'kit' ever made since I helped R&D it. Just make sure to gap your plugs to .065". Also be careful when/if you pull the wires. The clip can pull off the wire and it's a PITA to crimp it back. BTDT
TJ's need the adapter.
-
I have run their ignitions in my Jeep. Now, my Jeep had other issues (can't say Firepower was the cause), but their coils did seem to burn faster than the cheap coils... But, as I said, when I did burn them, the Jeep had other issues that were causing all kinds of problems in the ignition from the ECU (bad set of sensors, fuel pump, etc.)
-
I probably have the oldest 'kit' ever made since I helped R&D it. Just make sure to gap your plugs to .065". Also be careful when/if you pull the wires. The clip can pull off the wire and it's a PITA to crimp it back. BTDT
TJ's need the adapter.
thanks- i will use plenty of dielectric grease for extra insurance!
-
On the gap...
Grimes is doing the head work on my engine this week (see Chad's TJ in projects for more information) and I asked about the spark gap and what I got in return was a sinister grin.
My interpretation of the dialogue that followed is this:
1) if it sparks it works
2) if it doesn't spark it doesn't work
3) spark plugs don't add power
4) upgraded ignition system with the same gap as a non-upgraded ignition system will generate a "hotter spark" but a "hotter spark" does not mean more power
5) shorter gap is "easier" to jump than a larger gap so an upgraded ignition system "maybe" more resistant to failures related to lack of spark
In the end I summarized that I had not wasted my money on the ignition system because it is in theory more reliable but that the only way it was going to add power would be if the old system wasn't actually working properly. I still didn't understand what his recommendation on gap really was but I gathered he didn't think it really mattered as long as we were getting spark.
I completely agree.
If the stock system is inadequate, the engine wont run smooth, especially at lower RPM's due to erratic igintion. Running a more powerful coil that sends more energy to the spark plug will often make an engine run better by igniting more consistently.
The spark plug starts the burn, and the flame front spreads through the combustion chamber. Running a hotter spark and larger gap will only ensure there is no misfire, but does nothing to speed up the flame front (which is where the power is made).
The only ignition systems I have seen that actually make a difference in power are the multi-spark-discharge (msd)type. And if you do the research, you will see that these only do msd below 3k rpm. Above 3k, it doesnt seem to make a difference. I dont really have an explanation as to why they make more power.
Engines that run two plugs per cylinder will loose power when one plug is pulled, because you have now cut off one flame front and it is taking the mixture twice as long to burn across the combustion chamber.
As far as plugs go, the platinum and iridium ones are more durable. Try to run standard plugs with a high power coil and you will see the spark eat the electrodes on the plug over a few thousand miles. The platinum and iridium ones prevent this from happening.
I currently run a Summit digital ignition on my 2.5 (MSD below 3k rpm and adjustable rev limiter). I found no noticeable power difference between this one and the stock Ford DUI that was on there. My main reason for this ignition was to have an adjustable rev limiter, and I was hoping it would make more power and better fuel mileage.
Food for thought: some of the highest power-per-displacement production engines on the planet, motorcycle engines, also run some of the weakest coils and no msd.
-
MSD is basically a CDI ignition, I think the extra tic of power from the MSD comes from the longer sparc duration it generates past 3400 RPM, on the other hand the 6AL does not seem to be very durable. I've had many of them fail at the race track. (SCCA road racing.) They have discontinued it for a digital version that I haven't played with much.
I had a 69 911 that had a Porsche CDI with a Marelli distributor, that baby would light your ancestors up if you got a hold of it by accident..
ON race motors, the higher your compression ratio, the smaller the gap needs to be for reliable ignition. (Talking > 13:1)
Cheers
-
Clarification:
when I was referencing MSD, I was referencing a multi-spark-discharge ignition, not the brand. My Summit box is a digital ignition box that controls the spark output signal to the coil (in my case, an MSD Blaster coil).
And yes, compression ratio effects the resistance in the spark gap. When the air is more dense, the gap resistance goes up. Too much gap distance and too much compression and the spark plug will not spark if the spark energy (coil) is too weak. Like you said, though, the compression ratio you have to reach to have a problem is way more than 99.9% of any Jeep 2.5 out there.
FWIW, I've never seen any advantage to running a gap over 0.040" on any engine I've owned.