Topic: Urgent Help @firepower Ignition kit

[mrcabinet]

The performance gains are the same as anything you do to the 2.5 - a little by itself, but when combined with all the other things you can do it all adds up. I noticed that on a couple of hills on my daily commute, I can hold it at 70 now instead of the speed slowly going down. I don't have to keep the pedal mashed to the floor all the time either. Also, the exhaust tone is a little deeper and throatier with less droning on the highway.The biggest difference was a gain of 1.5 MPG! At that rate it should pay for itself in about two years.

All in all, I think the two things that made the biggest difference in performance were the 62mm throttle body / spacer and an electric fan. The PD ignition is a nice compliment to everything else.

[karan]

The performance gains are the same as anything you do to the 2.5 - a little by itself, but when combined with all the other things you can do it all adds up. I noticed that on a couple of hills on my daily commute, I can hold it at 70 now instead of the speed slowly going down. I don't have to keep the pedal mashed to the floor all the time either. Also, the exhaust tone is a little deeper and throatier with less droning on the highway.The biggest difference was a gain of 1.5 MPG! At that rate it should pay for itself in about two years.

All in all, I think the two things that made the biggest difference in performance were the 62mm throttle body / spacer and an electric fan. The PD ignition is a nice compliment to everything else.

Thanks again, 1.5 mpg is noticeable gain and the smooth ride is also a plus. i am already getting a 62 mm but dont know which electric fan to go for, which one you have and what else i need with the fan, i was thinking of a taurus one but then i think i would need some more stuff to control fan speed. i am so tempted to get an electric fan but hate to pay 150 $ just to have it installed. (my local calgarian-canada mechanic gave me that quote)
 

[Jeffy]

Not sure about needing an adapter since I didn't need one but I'd go with what Steve says.  (Steve is the owner of PD and the guy I talked to when he needed some feedback) The only difference I found with the 2.5L kits is that the TJ's use a different rotor.

I'd buy the kit from PD and not 4WD though.  PD are good guy's who back their stuff.

[karan]

Jeffy, thanks for the input, yeah i had already ordered from 4wd and they are bunch of thieves.  first they had wrong info on their site that prompted me to order considering the price.
after i found it it wont work for my year that they said on their site would work.
they said our site is wrong and it wont work you ll have to buy another item for 30 bucks, and said we have already shipped and billed you.
you can return at your own cost-
so i had to buy the other item.
4wd.com sucks big time!!!!
 

[Bounty Hunter]

Can you mark refused on the package and force them to take it back?  Giving you a credit?

I've ordered from 4wd.com dozens of times and it's always been a great experience.  Not to mention they support our local jeep club and offer us a 10% discount. 

[sharpxmen]

Can you mark refused on the package and force them to take it back?  Giving you a credit?

I've ordered from 4wd.com dozens of times and it's always been a great experience.  Not to mention they support our local jeep club and offer us a 10% discount. 

that's great for your club but i had mixed experience with them. Some were good, some horrible as when i called and ordered specifically a certain brand and they send me they're rebranded/repackaged equivalent and I had to plead with them for free refund on my cost of shipping back the items. Other times i had missing items in the box and although i called 3 or 4 times and I was promised they go out next day took 2 months to receive (not exaggerating).

on the positive side I called twice for a price match and got the refund (after receiving the order), so i guess it's give and take so to speak.

[Jeffy]

The problem I have with 4WD is that they aren't the same company as they once were.  Before they were a good mom & pop type of store.  They were never able to compete with q-Tech but I actually preferred 4WD over Q-tech.  Because of the economy, 4WD was bought out by Transamerican Auto Parts.  This is the same company that owned Steel Horse and 4 Wheel Parts Warehouse.  They also acquired Smittybilt which replaces Steel Horse as their marketing brand.  I hate their tiered pricing and the local 4WPW typically suck.  I'd imagine TAP bought 4WDH because of their location.

[karan]

Yeah i am not ordering again from them,
Btw, i called performance distributors and asked for what they suggest in spark plugs to be used with the firepower ignition kit.
the guy there sdaid use "autolite" autolite has so many different types and i called him again and asked which one, he suggested platinum, so i think i would go for autolite
double platinum spark plugs, he also said that changing the gap to 0.65 on this plug with give optimum results both in power and fuel economy.

[chitchc2]

On the gap...

Grimes is doing the head work on my engine this week (see Chad's TJ in projects for more information) and I asked about the spark gap and what I got in return was a sinister grin.
My interpretation of the dialogue that followed is this:

1) if it sparks it works
2) if it doesn't spark it doesn't work
3) spark plugs don't add power
4) upgraded ignition system with the same gap as a non-upgraded ignition system will generate a "hotter spark" but a "hotter spark" does not mean more power
5) shorter gap is "easier" to jump than a larger gap so an upgraded ignition system "maybe" more resistant to failures related to lack of spark

In the end I summarized that I had not wasted my money on the ignition system because it is in theory more reliable but that the only way it was going to add power would be if the old system wasn't actually working properly. I still didn't understand what his recommendation on gap really was but I gathered he didn't think it really mattered as long as we were getting spark.

[Jeffy]

Yeah i am not ordering again from them,
Btw, i called performance distributors and asked for what they suggest in spark plugs to be used with the firepower ignition kit.
the guy there sdaid use "autolite" autolite has so many different types and i called him again and asked which one, he suggested platinum, so i think i would go for autolite
double platinum spark plugs, he also said that changing the gap to 0.65 on this plug with give optimum results both in power and fuel economy.

Steve sent me Autolite Platinum which are the ones I'm using.  They are gaped to 0.065" with no problems.

[Jeffy]

On the gap...

Grimes is doing the head work on my engine this week (see Chad's TJ in projects for more information) and I asked about the spark gap and what I got in return was a sinister grin.
My interpretation of the dialogue that followed is this:

1) if it sparks it works
2) if it doesn't spark it doesn't work
3) spark plugs don't add power
4) upgraded ignition system with the same gap as a non-upgraded ignition system will generate a "hotter spark" but a "hotter spark" does not mean more power
5) shorter gap is "easier" to jump than a larger gap so an upgraded ignition system "maybe" more resistant to failures related to lack of spark

In the end I summarized that I had not wasted my money on the ignition system because it is in theory more reliable but that the only way it was going to add power would be if the old system wasn't actually working properly. I still didn't understand what his recommendation on gap really was but I gathered he didn't think it really mattered as long as we were getting spark.

Although running a larger gap does not mean more power per say.  The larger spark will create a larger ignition point which helps make for a more efficient burn.  This is a known way to scavenge a bit more power from the engine.  Add more air and more fuel and you'll take advantage of the larger spark.  Even without that, you'll notice a bit of a difference.  If the bare minimum was all the engine needed then there would be no reason to use a multi-coil system, found on most new engines rather then a single coil.  Not to mention some engines having multiple spark plugs for an individual cylinder or like the MSD Ignition, sends out multiple sparks.

[sharpxmen]

would be hard to test on the Jeep but if you look at airplane engines that have dual plugs and dual ignition systems turning one of them off would result in an rpm drop - it's understandable with magnetos since the spark is weaker on them compared to an electronic ignition, but the same thing happens on the airplane engines with electronic ignition and magneto (for the second set of plugs), turning the magneto off would result in an rpm drop, lot less than if you turn the electronic ignition off but there is still a difference - can't remember the exact numbers but i think was something like 250 rpm drop when only one magneto was on, in the mixed setup something like 50 to 100 rpm when only the electronic ignition was on - not as dramatic but looks like there is something to gain.

Now, there are some differences in the chamber on these engines and the plugs are at opposite sides in the chamber so i'm not sure how much of that would apply on the jeep 2.5, probably less obvious but there is something that could be gained. I wonder if a plug with multiple prongs would result in better gains.

[chitchc2]

Interesting I'm not certain really and have no experience to work with on the power gain but I do have electrical engineering experience and I believe that the spark is going to take the shortest route to ground and go to only one prong. This however also makes me think there could be some reliability gained by having more than one route to ground.

[Jeffy]

would be hard to test on the Jeep but if you look at airplane engines that have dual plugs and dual ignition systems turning one of them off would result in an rpm drop - it's understandable with magnetos since the spark is weaker on them compared to an electronic ignition, but the same thing happens on the airplane engines with electronic ignition and magneto (for the second set of plugs), turning the magneto off would result in an rpm drop, lot less than if you turn the electronic ignition off but there is still a difference - can't remember the exact numbers but i think was something like 250 rpm drop when only one magneto was on, in the mixed setup something like 50 to 100 rpm when only the electronic ignition was on - not as dramatic but looks like there is something to gain.

Now, there are some differences in the chamber on these engines and the plugs are at opposite sides in the chamber so i'm not sure how much of that would apply on the jeep 2.5, probably less obvious but there is something that could be gained. I wonder if a plug with multiple prongs would result in better gains.

Split prong like the Accel plugs?  Never really noticed that much of a difference.  Although I was only running those at 0.055" and not 0.065" like I am with the PD/AutoLite Platinum.  There is a noticeable exhaust note change and on the high-end of the RPMs.  I noticed it quickly when I swapped the ignition system on two 600 mile road trips (a week apart).  At the high-end the engine was running a lot smoother.  Now with that said, if you're driving around and not reving the engine much over 2000RPM, I don't think you'll notice much of a difference.

[sharpxmen]

Split prong like the Accel plugs?  Never really noticed that much of a difference.  Although I was only running those at 0.055" and not 0.065" like I am with the PD/AutoLite Platinum.  There is a noticeable exhaust note change and on the high-end of the RPMs.  I noticed it quickly when I swapped the ignition system on two 600 mile road trips (a week apart).  At the high-end the engine was running a lot smoother.  Now with that said, if you're driving around and not reving the engine much over 2000RPM, I don't think you'll notice much of a difference.

don't know if the split prong, i was thinking more of the ones with 3 prongs on the body side (at the thread side) and not the electrode side - I'm thinking that if the distance is just normal might force 2 or maybe 3 sparks but i'm not sure.