Author Topic: Excessive "blow by" cyl 2+3  (Read 4445 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline VA_YJ

  • Member
  • Posts: 282
  • Now I need a CJ...
Re: Excessive "blow by" cyl 2+3
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2013, 12:50:04 PM »
If you ignore the fuel supply and ignition systems, an engine is basically an air pump.  The pump pulls air through the intake and pushes air out the exhaust.  The dry compression test tells you how well the pump is working. As the engine warms up, the pistons expand and the ring seal gets tighter, and that's why you warm the engine first.  If one or more cylinders fail the dry compression test, then you have a leak in your pump.  Possible leaks include worn rings/cylinder walls, leaking intake valves, leaking exhaust valves, blown head gasket or cracks in the head or block (less common).  The wet compression test (oil added into the cylinder) helps the rings seal better and if the compression gets better, then ring blowby is the suspected.  If the wet test does not improve compression, then valves or head gasket are suspect.  Normally, a blown head gasket will yield other symptoms (bubbles in radiator, white smoke in exhaust, overheating, etc.).  The condition of the spark plugs is another good diagnostic - a black, oily plug on the cylinder with low compression indicates worn rings or worn valve guides.  The leak down test is useful because you can listen for the leak (leaking intake valves blow into the intake, leaking exhaust valves blow into the exhaust system, worn rings blow into the crank case).  The most common valve leak is on the exhaust side because of heat.  An exhaust valve that does not close all the way will burn and leak.  Another old school diagnostic tool is the vacuum gauge.  Valve problems cause the engine's vacuum reading to bounce up and down.  There is no one single test that gives you an answer, you must gather all the info you can and then play detective.

If you determine that the rings are not sealing to the cylinder walls, then a tear down is in order.  The cylinder bores wear more at the top than the bottom, and the amount of bore taper and overall cylinder wear determine whether you can get by with honing/new rings or a full rebuild (bore the cylinders oversize and get new pistons and rings).
95 YJ, 31 BFG ATs, 4.0 TB & spacer, Banks header, DynoMax CAT back, 19# inj, AEM CAI, 20 gal mod, Optima yellow
98 TJ, 35 BFG Krawlers, 4.0 liter, ax15, atlas 5:1, armor, Super 88 (under construction)
96 XJ Cheep Cherokee, 33s, 4.0 liter, AW4, future project
89 Waggy, 360 V8 727 dana 44s, it runs

Offline aw12345

  • Member
  • Posts: 3065
    • my jeep picture page
Re: Excessive "blow by" cyl 2+3
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2013, 07:52:41 PM »
buy a $20 compression tester, warm up the engine, take the plugs out and test each cylinder (remove the fuel pump relay, disconnect the coil and crank it a few times to clear the pressure from the fuel rail, then test each cyl with the throttle fully open).
A proper leak down test is a much more accurate test to determine engine condition that a simple compression test
2006 Jeep Wrangler TJ SE
2004 Jeep Wrangler TJ SE

Offline sharpxmen

  • Chief Squirrel Blower®
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7093
Re: Excessive "blow by" cyl 2+3
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2013, 08:03:42 PM »
A proper leak down test is a much more accurate test to determine engine condition that a simple compression test

to tell him if those numbers are accurate or not, at 65 on the leak test or whatever that was should be easy to tell if it's a valve or rings with a compression test - i don't think there would be too much trouble to investigate that particular cylinder.
'95 YJ, NSG370 6spd / Hurst shifter, Dana 300 + 4:1 Doubler / tri-stick, Custom skid, Super D35 / Auburn LSD / 4.88, 35x12.5x15 BFG KM2, 64mm t/b, 1.7 RollerRockers, MkVIII e-fan, Dual Diaph Booster
Latest: Corbeau BajaRS heated seats :dance: keeping warm the rear end

Offline stan98tj

  • Empty Wallet Wheeling Since 2007®
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1816
  • Wheeling New England
Re: Excessive "blow by" cyl 2+3
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2013, 08:12:15 PM »
Talked briefly with the shop today. They estimated cyl 2 and 3 had 35 and 46% blow by. He also said that he expects that the motor has lost power and will blow a seal eventually and leak oil again. Our conversation got cut short but I'll call them tomorrow and see if I can get any more info.
98 TJ 35"Maxxis Trep.Old Man Emu 2.5""+1"BL,IronMan Fab control arms,4.56gears,Ford 8.8+ARB,Currie/IronMan steering, WARN VR10,HP D30 sleeved+ RCV,Body Armor Rock Rails WISHLIST:TDi.Girlfriend hates it :) If you can read this don't flip me over i dont have any $$ left to fix it

Offline stan98tj

  • Empty Wallet Wheeling Since 2007®
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1816
  • Wheeling New England
Re: Excessive "blow by" cyl 2+3
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2013, 05:10:16 PM »
Got done talking to the shop. Piston rings need to be replaced on #2 and #3 and perhaps cyl walls need to be honed as well. Bottom line, the engine needs to be torn into in order to figure the extend of the repair. Given the possible piston ring issue, I wonder if it's even worth it.
98 TJ 35"Maxxis Trep.Old Man Emu 2.5""+1"BL,IronMan Fab control arms,4.56gears,Ford 8.8+ARB,Currie/IronMan steering, WARN VR10,HP D30 sleeved+ RCV,Body Armor Rock Rails WISHLIST:TDi.Girlfriend hates it :) If you can read this don't flip me over i dont have any $$ left to fix it

Offline bigal389

  • Member
  • Posts: 62
Re: Excessive "blow by" cyl 2+3
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2013, 06:34:12 PM »
I don't know about the pricing where you are but a couple of engine supply companies in NC sell remanned short blocks for $650 with your core and longblocks for $850. Just a htought if your on a budget. If you want pm me for more details.
Al
87 Jeep Yj 2.5 all stock for now

Offline sharpxmen

  • Chief Squirrel Blower®
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7093
Re: Excessive "blow by" cyl 2+3
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2013, 10:54:45 PM »
I would contact the guys you bought it from, shouldn't fail after 1 year of use even if you drove 100 miles every day
'95 YJ, NSG370 6spd / Hurst shifter, Dana 300 + 4:1 Doubler / tri-stick, Custom skid, Super D35 / Auburn LSD / 4.88, 35x12.5x15 BFG KM2, 64mm t/b, 1.7 RollerRockers, MkVIII e-fan, Dual Diaph Booster
Latest: Corbeau BajaRS heated seats :dance: keeping warm the rear end

Offline stan98tj

  • Empty Wallet Wheeling Since 2007®
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1816
  • Wheeling New England
Re: Excessive "blow by" cyl 2+3
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2013, 11:09:20 PM »
I would contact the guys you bought it from, shouldn't fail after 1 year of use even if you drove 100 miles every day
it's been 5 yrs
98 TJ 35"Maxxis Trep.Old Man Emu 2.5""+1"BL,IronMan Fab control arms,4.56gears,Ford 8.8+ARB,Currie/IronMan steering, WARN VR10,HP D30 sleeved+ RCV,Body Armor Rock Rails WISHLIST:TDi.Girlfriend hates it :) If you can read this don't flip me over i dont have any $$ left to fix it

Offline Jeffy

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 14934
Re: Excessive "blow by" cyl 2+3
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2013, 12:43:56 PM »
Why not do all the cylinders since you're already doing half of them.
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZNlr60GXH5OlKIFrT7P6mg
My Jeep: http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php?topic=2783.0
"If the motor car were invented today, there is absolutely no way that any government in the world would let normal members of the public drive one."

Offline sharpxmen

  • Chief Squirrel Blower®
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7093
Re: Excessive "blow by" cyl 2+3
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2013, 01:36:03 PM »
Why not do all the cylinders since you're already doing half of them.
yeah, no point in doing only 2 cyl since you take it apart - question is what's the wear in the block and did they go with o/s pistons when they did the repair or just std and honed the cylinders (if the latter you'll probably need .020 or .030 pistons and to bore/hone the cylinders) - if you have your old block i would rather start there, get pistons, rings, bearings, timing chain, etc and swap it when it's ready.
'95 YJ, NSG370 6spd / Hurst shifter, Dana 300 + 4:1 Doubler / tri-stick, Custom skid, Super D35 / Auburn LSD / 4.88, 35x12.5x15 BFG KM2, 64mm t/b, 1.7 RollerRockers, MkVIII e-fan, Dual Diaph Booster
Latest: Corbeau BajaRS heated seats :dance: keeping warm the rear end

Offline stan98tj

  • Empty Wallet Wheeling Since 2007®
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1816
  • Wheeling New England
Re: Excessive "blow by" cyl 2+3
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2013, 01:45:47 PM »
yeah, no point in doing only 2 cyl since you take it apart - question is what's the wear in the block and did they go with o/s pistons when they did the repair or just std and honed the cylinders (if the latter you'll probably need .020 or .030 pistons and to bore/hone the cylinders) - if you have your old block i would rather start there, get pistons, rings, bearings, timing chain, etc and swap it when it's ready.
Don't have my old block. Had to give it to S&S as a core charge. Honestly, i'm having trouble determining if this is even worth pulling apart. I already replaced 2 pistons on the first engine within the first 2 weeks of ownership. Then it blew up completely. I then bought this rebuilt engine and 5yrs later, the piston rings are toast and the cyl walls need to be honed (maybe). I just don't feel it's worth tearing into. This is pushing me to really do the TDi swap or any swap other than another 4cyl. Could be a series of bad luck, but I feel like if I'm going to basically rebuild an engine I should just swap a different one in...and if i'm going to do that, then I feel I should look for something better than a 4banger.
The unfortunate thing is that I can't sell this engine. Unless I find a 4banger fanatic who wants the block to build up.
98 TJ 35"Maxxis Trep.Old Man Emu 2.5""+1"BL,IronMan Fab control arms,4.56gears,Ford 8.8+ARB,Currie/IronMan steering, WARN VR10,HP D30 sleeved+ RCV,Body Armor Rock Rails WISHLIST:TDi.Girlfriend hates it :) If you can read this don't flip me over i dont have any $$ left to fix it

Offline Jeffy

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 14934
Re: Excessive "blow by" cyl 2+3
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2013, 02:08:04 PM »
Don't have my old block. Had to give it to S&S as a core charge. Honestly, i'm having trouble determining if this is even worth pulling apart. I already replaced 2 pistons on the first engine within the first 2 weeks of ownership. Then it blew up completely. I then bought this rebuilt engine and 5yrs later, the piston rings are toast and the cyl walls need to be honed (maybe). I just don't feel it's worth tearing into. This is pushing me to really do the TDi swap or any swap other than another 4cyl. Could be a series of bad luck, but I feel like if I'm going to basically rebuild an engine I should just swap a different one in...and if i'm going to do that, then I feel I should look for something better than a 4banger.
The unfortunate thing is that I can't sell this engine. Unless I find a 4banger fanatic who wants the block to build up.
So when the first engine blew up was it the same ones that you repaired or one of the other ones?  This is why an engine builder would never do just a partial rebuild by choice.

It might be easier to get a 2.5L from a salvage then to rebuild your existing engine.
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZNlr60GXH5OlKIFrT7P6mg
My Jeep: http://4bangerjp.com/forums/index.php?topic=2783.0
"If the motor car were invented today, there is absolutely no way that any government in the world would let normal members of the public drive one."

Offline sharpxmen

  • Chief Squirrel Blower®
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7093
Re: Excessive "blow by" cyl 2+3
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2013, 06:23:16 PM »
how many miles since you put in the replacement engine?
'95 YJ, NSG370 6spd / Hurst shifter, Dana 300 + 4:1 Doubler / tri-stick, Custom skid, Super D35 / Auburn LSD / 4.88, 35x12.5x15 BFG KM2, 64mm t/b, 1.7 RollerRockers, MkVIII e-fan, Dual Diaph Booster
Latest: Corbeau BajaRS heated seats :dance: keeping warm the rear end

Offline stan98tj

  • Empty Wallet Wheeling Since 2007®
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1816
  • Wheeling New England
Re: Excessive "blow by" cyl 2+3
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2013, 06:24:43 PM »
So when the first engine blew up was it the same ones that you repaired or one of the other ones?  This is why an engine builder would never do just a partial rebuild by choice.

It might be easier to get a 2.5L from a salvage then to rebuild your existing engine.
The first engine burned a hole in the #1 piston. Replaced that and #2 piston (I think the rings were worn on it). Then when the motor detonated, pistons 3 and 4 were grenade with nothing left (if I remember correctly). I had replaced the head and sent it back to Clearwater Cyl as the final detonation was catastrophic. The entire motor was replaced at that point with a motor from S&S in Washington.
So to answer your question, this is motor #2 and motor #1 was sent to them as a core charge. 2 totally separate motors.
98 TJ 35"Maxxis Trep.Old Man Emu 2.5""+1"BL,IronMan Fab control arms,4.56gears,Ford 8.8+ARB,Currie/IronMan steering, WARN VR10,HP D30 sleeved+ RCV,Body Armor Rock Rails WISHLIST:TDi.Girlfriend hates it :) If you can read this don't flip me over i dont have any $$ left to fix it

Offline stan98tj

  • Empty Wallet Wheeling Since 2007®
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1816
  • Wheeling New England
Re: Excessive "blow by" cyl 2+3
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2013, 06:26:57 PM »
how many miles since you put in the replacement engine?
Not quite 50k
98 TJ 35"Maxxis Trep.Old Man Emu 2.5""+1"BL,IronMan Fab control arms,4.56gears,Ford 8.8+ARB,Currie/IronMan steering, WARN VR10,HP D30 sleeved+ RCV,Body Armor Rock Rails WISHLIST:TDi.Girlfriend hates it :) If you can read this don't flip me over i dont have any $$ left to fix it