Topic: Not a lot of 4dr, 4x4 SUV models selling with manual transmissions...

[chrisfranklin]

My Dad was looking for an truck/SUV with a 6spd manual and decent power.  I suggested he check out a 2012 or later JK Wrangler Unlimited with the manual.  But he ended up buying a 2014 XTerra PRO-4X with the manual

I didn't inquire, but I'm guessing he went with the Nissan because it probably seemed a little lower profile to him, he wasn't in to the cool factor with taking the top down and doors off, and he wasn't going to ever be anywhere on the east coast where he'd have a real use for a solid front axle.  He turned 70 this year, so I'll cut him some slack.

Anyway, I drove his XTerra recently and was actually fairly impressed -- more than I thought I'd be.  Power is good, interior is functional, Pro4 package adds some decent parts (rear locker, bilstein shocks).

Told him before he bought that I read that Nissan might be planning to discontinue the XTerra or swap the engine for mileage reasons on its new model (ie., to maybe something with a turbo, direct injection) and that maybe he should hold off buying.   But that didn't seem to bother him.

Realized, though, after all this that with the FJ Cruiser supposedly getting discontinued and the 4Runner auto-only, people might be down to just two mid-size, 4dr, 4x4 SUVS left in the US that can be had with manual transmission:  Jeep Wrangler Unlimited and Nissan XTerra (assuming that Nissan's new 2015/2016 XTerra Model will still offer one).  

  

[neale_rs]

Manual transmissions are on the way out.  It's too bad, I like them.

[chrisfranklin]

Manual transmissions are on the way out.  It's too bad, I like them.

Yeah, me too.

I've driven a few paddle shifter vehicles and I see the merits -- you can keep fingers on both hands on the wheel while you fap your way through the gears, acceleration can be better than with manuals in some cases, and yeah, you can fall back to auto if you get in traffic.

I'd still tend to chose manual over auto in a lot of cases.  But it depends on the auto tranny involved  -- these days, I could probably see buying one of the reportedly decent paddle-shift autos if it was available for the vehicle.  

[dwtaylorpdx]

Interesting, I like manuals but have yet to drive a street paddle shifted car besides a 911 that was worth bothering with.. When I drive a manual I want it to shift when I tell it to,, I don't care what RPM I'm running. And I want a real paddle shifted manual not a automatic tranny pretending to be a manual.

The BMW's have  problems with the SMG shift system.. The pump system that operates it fails a lot and is hella expensive..

Ford/Fuso trucks have a good system as well.. Constant engagement wet clutch.. Supposed to do over 1 million miles without any real maintenance beside fluid changes..

[chrisfranklin]

I've driven a few CVT cars that come with paddle shifters -- one was a Hyundai Tuscon and the other a Honda Accord.  

They both had a "gear" setups where the CVT would play like it was in "gear" 1-7 even though the CVTs didn't have gears.  You'd be lugging along in say "4th" or "5th" according to the display and the car would automatically "downshift" on you.  Very lame.

Did drive a V6 Camaro rental with a paddle shift setup and it was a bit better.  Wasn't a CVT and there was no BS with it shifting when the paddles weren't fapped.  

If I recall correctly, engine power on the Camaro (even though it was just the V6) made the whole paddle shift thing more enjoyable. And it wasn't a CVT either.

With the CVT rentals I mentioned, neither had great power and I basically just left them in auto after a little while horsing around with their paddles.  Smacking the paddles around on those was more trouble than it was worth.

[jfrabat]

Most paddle shifters out there are not real manual transmissions but rather automatic.  The real ones actually have a clutch, and when you start driving them, they feel a bit weird (kind of like you are driving with the e-brake engaged or something).  I drove an Aston Martin Vantage and it was like this.  Same with the McLaren MP4 that I drove in Vegas...

[chrisfranklin]

Guess I'll have to try out a few of the paddle shift manuals vs the autos-with-paddles and see how they compare.  

To me, and on-paper, it seems like both types of paddle shift are doing the same thing -- allowing driver to "manually" control gear choice with paddles.   But am sure there're probably noticeable performance advantages with the paddle shift manuals from Aston, Porsche and any other makes

[dwtaylorpdx]

Paddle shifter make more sense when you don't have to turn the wheel more than 1/8 turn in either direction.. IE a formula car.. :)

[Jeffy]

I never really considered electro-hydraulic shifting manuals to be in the same boat as the hydro-automatics we're more used to.  Paddle shifters can be found on both though the traditional automatics with paddle shifters are very slow compared to the auto shifting manual boxes.

Now the biggest disadvantage of the auto-shifting manuals is in full auto-mode.  Try parallel parking with one can be a PITA.  There are times when you want to slip the clutch a little and they just don't do that.  So if you're crawling, they will probably not be a good idea.

A CVT with paddle shifters is a dumb.  The whole purpose of a CVT is to be in the perfect gear all the time.  That's why they hold the RPM steady even when shifting.  They're pretty amazing with one fault.  CVT's haven't seen designed to take a while lot of torque.  This is why no performance car runs one.  If they can make them hold up to high HP and torque, you can bet they will be used.

The main reason that manuals aren't selling as well is that mfg's are selling more to the masses.  All those people who would have otherwise bought a car are now buying SUV's.  This has been going on for over a decade now.

[dwtaylorpdx]

Its also MUCH MUCH easier to get a auto through EPA testing.

[chrisfranklin]

Paddle shifter make more sense when you don't have to turn the wheel more than 1/8 turn in either direction.. IE a formula car.. :)

Forgot about that.  Good point 

[jfrabat]

CVT's haven't seen designed to take a while lot of torque.  This is why no performance car runs one. 

Although it was not put into production (or raced as a result of changing rules), Renault did develop a CVT for their F1 car some time back.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/WbJ-PJwVZM8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/WbJ-PJwVZM8</a>

[Jeffy]

Although it was not put into production (or raced as a result of changing rules), Renault did develop a CVT for their F1 car some time back.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/WbJ-PJwVZM8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/WbJ-PJwVZM8</a>

Well, the Williams team was very innovative to the point of getting a lot of stuff banned the following year.  The active-hydraulic suspension comes to mine immediately.  IIRC, their transmission had a clutch and could be manually shifted but also had a auto button so it would run on it's own. David Coulthard looks so young, too.  In F1, they throw a lot of money into the one-off cars.  I don't think any of it goes into production unlike LeMan's and GT3.

[dasbulliwagen]

Chrysler has been doing away with their CVTs. The dont hold up long term and they just arent efficient enough. They loose a lot of efficiency to heat, which in the end is just wasted power and thus wasted fuel efficiency. The only one Chrysler has left is in the trail rated Compass Patriot. The standard models now have a Hyundai 6 speed auto which makes those cars much nicer to drive now. Those vehicles are due to be replaced soon so it will soon be gone from Chrysler completely. The training centers dont even teach them anymore (Im a dealer tech). I will only buy manual trans cars. I just bought a 2014 Hyundai Elantra with a manual, and have a Hyundai Tucson with a manual, not to mention my Comanche. The Hyundais though are both base modal cars. If you want any good options though you have to get a package that includes the auto trans for some reason. Sucks that way. For everything including the SUV's being talked about. Ive taught every girlfriend Ive ever had to drive stick including my wife, who now prefers a manual, saying driving an auto now is boring. But Ive tried to teach some younger people and was flat rejected. Seems to be a trend nowadays with kids... they think its too much work or yada yada. I think Im getting off track now so Ill stop here.