Topic: Weight!!!!

[bobarosa]

I'm very pleased to find this 4banger forum, it is really great!

I just purchased a very stock 58k miles 97 TJ last week, and am starved for info. I need to do some repairs (like replace cracked exhaust manifold and such), but I've also got my brain on some upgrades for off road. I have no interest in engine swaps, because the 2.5 reminds me of the old 48 Willys I drove as a youngster, and I just plain like it.  I'll probably go through and do all the recomended performance improvements I got from reading this forum so far. A big issue in my mind is that as I add and upgrade stuff on this jeep, I want to reduce its overall weight too. If any of you all can recommend any weight reducing products, please share them with me! Which electric fan set up do you recommend?
Everyone seems to bad mouth the dana 35 and says it is a waste to put gear and locker money into, but what is stronger that weighs the same or close or less? Any good lightweight bumpers?

Thanks in advance for any replies![/img]

[trailblazer95]

i put the ford 8.8 (explorer) axle underneath my YJ in place of the dana 35.  It weighs probably 50-75lbs more than the D35, but the added strength is worth the weight gain.  Any axle you swap will be a weight gain, the bigger you go, the more weight, obviously.  A D60 weighs around 400lbs.  But remember, you can always regear to get your power back.

As far as dropping some weight, you can toss the backseat, get a smaller battery, and get some lightweight bumpers.   for an electric fan, there's a couple options.  i chose the ford taurus fan.  it's a bit of work to get it done right, but there's writeups all over the place.  but if you want simplicity, buy one of the kits.  Flex-A-Lite makes a kit you can get thru Quadratec, 4WD Hardware, JCWhitney or any of the other online retailers.  That's probably your easiest way.

[Jeffy]

Replace the cat with a hi-flow unit.  They are really small and light compared to the OEM beast.  The rear seat isn't that heavy.  Each front seat weighs in about the same as the back seat.  Replace both with a suspension seat from MasterCraft, Beard or other.

There is another problem though.  Aerodynamic's.  There comes a point where removing weight won't help. Soft-tops weight less then the hardtops but the hardtops are more aerodynamic.

I ran into this problem when I was setting up my Jeep got a 40 mile commute.  Removed my Winch, rear seat, rear bumper, spare, passengerside mirror, roof rack, tow hooks...  Ultimatly, I say no real noticable difference.

I'd to with a OEM electric fan from a car rather then spending $200+ on a Flex-A-Lite.  For bumpers, you probably won't find anything lighter then the stock bumpers unless you just remove them completely.

If you want an axle that's not too heavy but a lot stronger then you'll have to go with a Toyota 8" or 8.25".  They are about the same size and strength as the Dana 44/Ford 8.8" but use a stamped steel housing instead of cast.

You could go with a fiberglass front clip also.  

This also means you probably won't add a 6pt cage or body armor which should be high on anyone's list of things to get.

My recommendation, keep it stock or close to it.  Don't even consider tires over 31".  Otherwise, you'll end up adding a lot more weight.

[rkcohen]

Why not do a D35 upgrade?  Superior Gear & Axle have kits and the end strength exceeds the stock D44.  Get the truss (which will add a few pounds) and the entire setup is probably stronger and more rigid.

Or just source a junkyard D44 and upgrade that yourself and since it should come from a simiar model - the mounting tabs/brackets should more or less be in the same place.  

A few extra pounds in the axle should be a worthwhile trade off for increased durability.

[StefanBidi]

Well, the problem with upgrading the D35 is that you still only have 1 tooth-to-tooth contact at the pinion and ring gear when you gear to 4.88, not to mention you can probably get a Ford 8.8" axle setup for less than what it would take to upgrade the D35 to a Superior D35.

Keep in mind, that the 2.5L is already almost 100lbs less than a 4.0L due to the missing 2 cylinders.  I've done some weight savings things to my Jeep, but in the end it all the cancel each other out.  For example, some chick hit my from behind, so my rear bumper was trashed and I went with a Warn bumper, added about 30lbs to the rear, but I also don't have the rear seat (only put it on when needed) and the spare tire only comes along when I'm going further than 30 minutes away from home.  In the front, you really can't do much but stare at it.  There's almost nothing that can be done to it except maybe use fiberglass part like mentioned before, but then you run into another problem: body damage.  If you accidentially hit a tree off-road, fiberglass parts will shatter, but steel body parts will just bend and can be fixed for cheap.

[trailblazer95]

all in all, even adding larger tires, bumpers, and extra axle weight, the 2.5L is comfortable to drive, if you gear it correctly.   Where you'll encounter it's downfall is on hills.  All you need to do is downshift and switch to the slow lane, you'll be fine.  You're definitely not going to break any speed records though.

[bobarosa]

I'm shocked at how hard it is to find the weight of after market jeep components, it is like nobody thinks its an issue! I did find some lightweight aluminum bumpers, but I haven't found anyone who sells them yet or what the price is! http://www.truckmasterdesigns.com/pagejeepwrangler.html

Back in the day, the old 1500 lb. Willys with a 60 hp go devil 4banger would literally drive rings around stuck trucks, and they would all ask me to go for help (no cell phones back then). There wasn't any lockers, no dana 44 or larger axles, heavy roll bars, etc.... Just light wieght and 5.38 gears. Now days the 4 banger TJs have twice or better the weight, but they also have twice or better the hp, and to me they almost handle like a sports car, and ride like a caddy, and will do 70 mph! I'm absolutely amazed!


I'm thinking I'm gonna need my 5/38 gears, so to keep the weight down, I'll try to find some of those light duty 44's like on the Rubicons. The dana 35 build up doesn't sound bad, but I just don't know if I'de be happy only getting down to 4.88, and I can't afford to do things twice, so maybe I'll spend a tad more the 1st time. From what I see those 35 build ups only come with detroit lockers, and I really want switch them off lockers, so it will still drive like a caddy when tooling arround town. I'm to old for rock bashing with the wipper-snappers, i just want to make it through to the honey hole so i can anti up at the fry.

Has anybody had any problems with the OBD2 causing a lean condition using one of those lightweight high flow CATs? I like the idea, but I'm paranoid about all that computer stuff still working OK!

This Jeep stuff is fun, even though I'm still in research mode!!! I just hope I don't come down with cancer or  Alzheimer’s before I get it done!

[StefanBidi]

Quadratec sells those bumpers, at least they used to.  They don't look very convincing to me, I think weak can describe it best.  I think keeping the original bumper is a better option, maybe trim the sides like some people do.

Kilby enterprises also make all their body armor stuff in forged aluminum if you have the $$$ to pay.  Generally the products will be twice the price compared to the steel designs.  I remember a guy, a while ago, mentioned he custom order a bunch of forged aluminum skids from Kilby.  Took a while for them to get it done since they had to custom fab everything up, and welding aluminum is harder.

As for a light weight cat converter, I really doubt it's really "light weight".  I mean, cat converters already don't weight that much to start with, so a 10% decrease in weight will probably save you about 1lb.  You can probably save more weight with a good diet.

[trailblazer95]

one word of advice, everyone will tell you how to build your jeep, but the only way to do it is to explore all the options and do it the way you want.  you're in the right stage by researching everything.

You honestly won't gain anything from a hi-flow cat (trust me, gone thru 2 of them).  with a TJ, you might[/b] encounter some problems due to the OBD2, i do know there is a sensor after the cat.  don't hold me to that though, i only have experience with cats & my YJ.  

for gearing, 5.38's would be good for 35-37" tires.  Gearing is all based upon tire size.  I run 4.88's with my 33's and it drives like stock.  But you've got the right idea looking for D44's, especially with a TJ, since it's literally a bolt-on mod.  If you're not up for "rock bashing with the wipper snappers"  ( :D ) then you'll be set.  You'll have some decent axle strength.  

But just to let you know, and i hate being the bearer of bad news, D44's, geared with selectable lockers and installation of gears and everything is going to cost you at least $4k.  Then factor in about $1k for tires & rims.  Not to mention a decent suspension lift for a TJ will cost you ~$1k also, plus factor in a slip yoke eliminator and new driveshaft ~$600, and pretty soon, you're $10k into it before you know what happened.  That's what happened to me, and for some reason, i keep building it and spending more money on it.    :roll:

[jeepfourlow]

I just hope I don't come down with cancer or  Alzheimer’s before I get it done!

funniest thing ive ever heard a old person say! :D

[bobarosa]

I hear ya trailblazer95, and I gave that some thought before I bought the TJ. The way I see it after looking at a couple of used Rubicons (the cheapest was a low mile 2003 for $21K), starting with a blank canvas and possibly spending the same amount of money, I would have a much better jeep in my opinion, and also save enough to buy at least one new axle just in sales and property tax savings. The only used Rubicons I found were loaded to the hilt with hard top, A/C, cruise, etc... , and I don't like or want any of that crap on my retirement toy. I gave $6200 for the one I got (great shape), it was used as a dingy (I'm sure its got plenty of tow miles)and came wired with tow lights and a tow bar, otherwise it is optionless. I don't waste money doing it this way, becasue I would still have to make a lot of expensive changes (gears, tires, and lift etc...) to get a Rubicon the way I think a nice simple (KISS theory) jeep should be. I don't mind spending money, but I hate wasting any!

StefanBidi, thanks for the Kilby enterprises info, I'm thinking to go that rout.

I'm going with 33s, are my calculations about the 5.38 gears correct? My target is 3500 rpm at 70mph. Any advise as to where, for getting some turn key D44 Rubicon axles with electrac lockers and gears set up, for best price (any deals or sales you might now about)? I'm ready to order, my mind is made up, and the axles come first!


Thanks for any info!

[Jeffy]

Kilby doesn't sell aluminum skids.  I'm not sure where you got that info from.  They've only started selling bumpers.  These are Hanson designed bumpers and side rockers.  The gas tank skids are 3/16" steel.

As for gearing check the FAQ.

I've tuned my engine so it's nice and smooth in the 3000-4500rpm and not bad at 5000rpm's for the added HP needed to climb hills faster. 3500rpm at 75mph sounds about right.  Right now I do 70mph @ 3000 and it' having a bit more RPM's would help a lot with wind and hills.

Only problem with Rubicon axles is that they are hybrids.  They aren't true D44's.  They use a thick gear set which isn't standard.  Currently the lowest you can go with the Rubicon is 5.13, I believe.  This should be good for 33's though.  The axles won't be cheap but should just bolt-into that TJ with ease.

[StefanBidi]

I wasn't saying Kilby makes almuminum stuff.  I said that if you have the $$$ they'll make what you need out of it.  A guy at JU did this something like 3 years ago.  He had to special order everything since it's not what they normally do.  If I remember correctly, Kibly Ent. also made some extra ones out of the left overs.

[Jeffy]

I wasn't saying Kilby makes almuminum stuff.  I said that if you have the $$$ they'll make what you need out of it.  A guy at JU did this something like 3 years ago.  He had to special order everything since it's not what they normally do.  If I remember correctly, Kibly Ent. also made some extra ones out of the left overs.

I'm still wondering about that.  I guess I could always just ask him.  If anything required a bend, it would have to be outsourced.  He did prototype a aluminum gas tank skid which broke apart.  I believe it's was $$$ too.  Saw it at the old warehouse.

Generally speaking though, bumpers and skids are big money.  They are overpriced unless you can fabricate yourself.  A one off would be much cheaper building it yourself but then you'd have to do all the R&D yourself.

[StefanBidi]

Which reminds me... Another guy at JU cut part of his Kilby gas tank skid off.  He weighted what he cut, but I can't remember what it came out to.  He trimmed the sides of the skid plate to about 1 or 2".  The side of that skid plate really has no need to be that high (at least I think so).