Author Topic: 200 degree differential seem to hot?  (Read 2739 times)

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huntingbuck101

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200 degree differential seem to hot?
« on: June 29, 2007, 07:28:26 PM »
got done doing my dana 35 gear swap from 4.10 to 4.88 and wanted to check if it was getting hot. after a 20 min. drive at about 2800 rpms I checked it with an infrared heat gun and it ranged around 198. I did the front that still has stock gears and got around 100 but it's not be powered like the rear. I cant hear any howling but with my tires who knows ( jacked it up and still really couldn't hear anything). I would think 4.88 would run a bit hotter then 4.10 because they turn faster but dose 200 sound to hot?

Offline Jeffy

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Re: 200 degree differential seem to hot?
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2007, 07:43:12 PM »
I'm thinking your backlash is too tight.
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huntingbuck101

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Re: 200 degree differential seem to hot?
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2007, 08:06:03 PM »
.013 backlash

Offline Jeffy

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Re: 200 degree differential seem to hot?
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2007, 08:20:54 PM »
.013 backlash

how many points did you check?

You might as well tell us what the other specs you measured, too.
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huntingbuck101

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Re: 200 degree differential seem to hot?
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2007, 09:32:02 PM »
it must take a few miles for the gears to set in. I just went for a 30 min ride and checked the temp again and the hottest it got was 165.

Offline Jeffy

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Re: 200 degree differential seem to hot?
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2007, 10:53:11 PM »
it must take a few miles for the gears to set in. I just went for a 30 min ride and checked the temp again and the hottest it got was 165.

Gears will settle a bit.  The reason why you need to get them within spec. is because they were put on a machine that runs the gears so they are matched.  The break-in is a continuation of the process.  The peening will help harden the gears.
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huntingbuck101

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Re: 200 degree differential seem to hot?
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2007, 07:39:07 AM »
so do you think around 165 degrees is acceptable?

Offline Jeffy

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Re: 200 degree differential seem to hot?
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2007, 10:56:42 AM »
If everything is within spec and it's not making any weird noises then it should be fine.  There is a bit of leeway when setting up gears.  They don't have to be prefect, just close enough.
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huntingbuck101

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Re: 200 degree differential seem to hot?
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2007, 03:30:43 PM »
bad news, just drove it again today and checked it after 10 miles and it was 145. had lunch and then drove it another 30 miles and it was back to 198. Stop for about 30 min. and drove back about 20 miles and it was 182. all driving is between 60 to 65 so around 2800 to 3100 rpms. other then the heat every thing seems fine when I change the fluid in 500 miles I will put a good synthetic in and see if it will bring it down a bit.

Offline Jeffy

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Re: 200 degree differential seem to hot?
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2007, 03:35:10 PM »
bad news, just drove it again today and checked it after 10 miles and it was 145. had lunch and then drove it another 30 miles and it was back to 198. Stop for about 30 min. and drove back about 20 miles and it was 182. all driving is between 60 to 65 so around 2800 to 3100 rpms. other then the heat every thing seems fine when I change the fluid in 500 miles I will put a good synthetic in and see if it will bring it down a bit.

If it's not making noise then I'd probably say it's normal break-in.
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Offline Bounty Hunter

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Re: 200 degree differential seem to hot?
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2007, 10:01:57 PM »
Doesn't sound bad to me.

I know several gear installers who will not warranty work if you use synthetic fluid.  I can't say why, but they're the pros and they don't recommend it for ring and pinions.

chrisfranklin

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Re: 200 degree differential seem to hot?
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2007, 01:23:33 AM »
got done doing my dana 35 gear swap from 4.10 to 4.88 and wanted to check if it was getting hot. after a 20 min. drive at about 2800 rpms I checked it with an infrared heat gun and it ranged around 198. I did the front that still has stock gears and got around 100 but it's not be powered like the rear. I cant hear any howling but with my tires who knows ( jacked it up and still really couldn't hear anything). I would think 4.88 would run a bit hotter then 4.10 because they turn faster but dose 200 sound to hot?

I saw this off-road magazine piece on a the hy-tec diff cover that might give some perspective on diff. heat following a new gear install: http://chevy.off-road.com/chevy/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=200783.  Read about 3-4 paragraphs in to it. Mentions 500 mile break-in period, etc.  Nothing conclusive, but it might shed a little light on your heat issue.


huntingbuck101

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Re: 200 degree differential seem to hot?
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2007, 02:43:26 PM »
I wish I new what was considered hot. If 200 is to hot I would change my oil, in case the heat broke it down.

chrisfranklin

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Re: 200 degree differential seem to hot?
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2007, 04:15:22 PM »
Based on the information out there, it doesn't look like you'll have any problem with 200F+ diff. heat during the break-in period.

Here's an exerpt from an article on diff. temps apparently done by SAE:

"Further evidence of stress and increased temperatures during the differential break-in period is documented in a 2005 SAE paper entitled The Effect of Heavy Loads on Light Duty Vehicle Axle Operating Temperature. A light duty GM truck towing 14,000 pounds was driven from Orange County, Calif. to the Nevada state line. The test was conducted with both a new axle and a broken-in axle. Over level ground towing, oil temperature was measured at 230 degrees F in the new axle and 203 degrees F in the broken-in axle. Oil temperature over the most grueling portion of the trip, during which a maximum 6% grade was encountered, revealed the new axle was operating at 350 degrees F and the broken-in axle was operating at 300 degrees F. Laboratory dynamometer test results simulating a truck hauling a trailer provided similar results, with level ground towing temperatures recorded at 266 degrees F with the new axle and 194 degrees F with the broken-in axle and towing temperatures (at a 3.5% grade) recorded at 370 degrees F with the new axle and 295 degrees F with the broken-in axle."  

However, that looks like diff temps on light-duty truck (maybe 5000lbs) towing 14,000lbs.  In your case, we are talking a 3000-4000lb Jeep though.  Your unbroken-in axle is running 200F and their truck pulling 14000lb load with an unbroken-in axle is running 230F (presumably both on level ground).    Your new gears are 4.88 which are said to raise temperatures. They are towing which is also said to do the same. 

What is impressive is that their truck's diffs are said to be running 350F when towing uphill (Holy Cow :smokes:).  And they were apparently doing this with standard gear oil  (which supposedly starts exhbiting negative wear characteristics at 200F)!  It looks like the gears, if not the gear fluid, have pretty (high) reasonable operating temp limits.  So take a look at fluids -- the likely weak point.

Personally, I think you are making a good move if you run synthetic gear fluid, especially during the break in period (AMSoil seems to even make a special synthetic break-in gear oil, specifically for this type of thing) -- go with Mobil 1, Redline, Amsoil, etc.  The break down temp on these oils is apparently between 300-375F degrees, likely 100+ degrees more than your standard gear oil. Also, they will likely produce less gear friction meaning less heat, so you'll probably see temps drop right there.  Don't off-road, tow, low range for 500-1000 miles.  Then change the synth fluid between 500-3000 miles to clean out any gear particulates in the fluid.   

chrisfranklin

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Re: 200 degree differential seem to hot?
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2007, 05:33:07 PM »
Probably unnecessary, but you could just find somebody with the D35 and 4:10s and stock gear fluid and a heat gun to run at highway speeds for a while.  Then get them to check the temp. on their axle.  If it tests at 160F (+/- 10 or 20 degrees) or so after a highway run, then your 200F test is about right for a new axle.   The ratios on the SAE test only seemed to show that a new axle would run about 15-20% hotter than an older one.  If you have a heatgun, you should give a mate with a D35 and the aforementioned setup a call